brandelynmarie Posted September 30, 2011 Author Share Posted September 30, 2011 (edited) I'm beginning to think that the flowers & shields & crowns were to show...that the Final Profession was connected to what is divine & heavenly. When I see them, I think of Heaven. Edited September 30, 2011 by brandelynmarie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feankie Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 No, Monjas Coronadas is simply the spanish translation of the English, crowned nuns. Many of the Mexican orders (and I'm sure others in South American and Spain) used this practice in colonial times. As I said previously, I've got 2 paintings that are older than dirt, and are exquisite. And friends of mine have a collection of escudos that are equal to any in the Museo Nacional in Mexico. Many of the escudos were buried with the nuns and found when exhumations (for whatever reasons) occurred; others were given to families on the occasion of the nuns death. More of the escudos remain than the floral (wax) wreaths and candles, although there are some striking examples of those as well that were discovered in old monasteries. The crowns of flowers are probably similar to the wreaths of fresh flowers used in profession ceremonies today, as well as the profession candles that are often tied with fancy ribbons and flowers as well.No, Monjas Coronadas is simply the spanish translation of the English, crowned nuns. Many of the Mexican orders (and I'm sure others in South American and Spain) used this practice in colonial times. As I said previously, I've got 2 paintings that are older than dirt, and are exquisite. And friends of mine have a collection of escudos that are equal to any in the Museo Nacional in Mexico. Many of the escudos were buried with the nuns and found when exhumations (for whatever reasons) occurred; others were given to families on the occasion of the nuns death. More of the escudos remain than the floral (wax) wreaths and candles, although there are some striking examples of those as well that were discovered in old monasteries. The crowns of flowers are probably similar to the wreaths of fresh flowers used in profession ceremonies today, as well as the profession candles that are often tied with fancy ribbons and flowers as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopefulBride Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 (edited) So these sisters are carmelites? I am so confused Edited October 1, 2011 by HopefulBride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandelynmarie Posted October 1, 2011 Author Share Posted October 1, 2011 (edited) HopefulBride, I think it said (somewhere) that many orders in Mexico participated in these ceremonies Dominican, Carmelite, Benedictine, Conceptionist. It doesn't appear to be centered on a certain religious order, rather a certain time period in Mexico. And to clarify Francis Clare, when I say the flowers remind me of the Divine & Heaven, I only meant that they [i]personally[/i] remind me of such things. Even when I see profession wreaths, I think of these things. [img]http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l6vg19BJr31qd4kcco1_500.jpg[/img] Do you think you would be able to scan in images of those paintings? I would so love to see them! Edited October 1, 2011 by brandelynmarie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feankie Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 I don't have a scanner, but I'll see if I can get a decent picture of them with my IPhone. We collect (rather, I should say, save) old Mexican and Spanish colonial-era paintings and restore and display them. We've found several under piles of boxes in junk shops all over Mexico. Just amazing what you'll find if you don't mind dust, mouse droppings, and who knows what else!!! I've tried taking photos and uploading them before and it hasn't worked very well as you don't really get the detail as they oils are so large. The largest one we have measures 4 feet high by 3 1/2 feet wide. I'm sure this one came from an old church or convent. I'm off to do a teaching session at Marquette U. this morning, so I won't have a chance til this evening. Hopefully I can get it to work. If not, I have several books with wonderful examples that would be small enough to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feankie Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 I don't have a scanner (and I don't know how I could scan them in anyway!) , but I'll see if I can get a decent picture of them with my IPhone. We collect (rather, I should say, [u]rescue[/u]) old Mexican and Spanish colonial-era paintings and restore and display them. We've found several under piles of boxes in junk shops all over Mexico. Just amazing what you'll find if you don't mind dust, mouse droppings, old taco wrappings, and who knows what else!!! I've tried taking photos and uploading them before and it hasn't worked very well as you don't really get the detail as they oils are so large. The largest one we have measures 4 feet high by 3 1/2 feet wide. I'm sure this one came from an old church or convent. I'm off to do a teaching session at Marquette U. this morning, so I won't have a chance til this evening. Hopefully I can get it to work. If not, I have several books with wonderful examples that would be small enough to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feankie Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Oops, sorry about the double post. Computer gremlins this morning! Hope my students are better behaved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
begin_again Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 These orders from Spain as depicted in the above pictures were representative of that time in history; however, as I looked at the beginning of the video twice and then decided to watch all of it again. I definitely think that the scenes and close up pictures of both the nun receiving the habit (or was it profession?) and the priest were in appropriate even if the video was trying to capture the opulence of the era. The "heartbeat sounds" did not sound like heartbeats to me! Thank God for Mother Teresa of Jesus / Avila!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandelynmarie Posted October 1, 2011 Author Share Posted October 1, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Francis Clare' timestamp='1317471565' post='2313321'] I don't have a scanner (and I don't know how I could scan them in anyway!) , but I'll see if I can get a decent picture of them with my IPhone. We collect (rather, I should say, [u]rescue[/u]) old Mexican and Spanish colonial-era paintings and restore and display them. We've found several under piles of boxes in junk shops all over Mexico. Just amazing what you'll find if you don't mind dust, mouse droppings, old taco wrappings, and who knows what else!!! I've tried taking photos and uploading them before and it hasn't worked very well as you don't really get the detail as they oils are so large. The largest one we have measures 4 feet high by 3 1/2 feet wide. I'm sure this one came from an old church or convent. I'm off to do a teaching session at Marquette U. this morning, so I won't have a chance til this evening. Hopefully I can get it to work. If not, I have several books with wonderful examples that would be small enough to work. [/quote] Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with us. I think it is wonderful that you guys are rescuing such an obscure yet beautiful part of history. (I'm wondering if I shouldn't start a retablo thread ) [quote name='begin_again' timestamp='1317503091' post='2313493'] These orders from Spain as depicted in the above pictures were representative of that time in history; however, as I looked at the beginning of the video twice and then decided to watch all of it again. I definitely think that the scenes and close up pictures of both the nun receiving the habit (or was it profession?) and the priest were in appropriate even if the video was trying to capture the opulence of the era. The "heartbeat sounds" did not sound like heartbeats to me! Thank God for Mother Teresa of Jesus / Avila!!! [/quote] Yes, I think that is the word I was trying to look for...opulence! It was most definitely a different understanding at that time rather than the simplicity of La Madre... Edited October 1, 2011 by brandelynmarie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feankie Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Don't get me started on retablos. At last count we have over 300 of them in my house plus the 30 or so I've given to 2 different Poor Clare monasteries. Our children have suggested that when we die that they should be donated to a museum as they are all museum quality and many of obscure subjects in retablo art such as the Transitus of Mary.Oops, not that the children should be donated Only the retablos and the paintings! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandelynmarie Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share Posted October 2, 2011 It must be amazing to have have so many of them. How long have you been working on obatining them? Do you do restoration on them as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feankie Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 We've been collecting them for over 35 years. No two are alike! I have two friends in California who are dealers and restorers so we've worked with them for a few of the pieces. Most of the "finding" has been done by my husband and myself on trips to small towns in Mexico and South America. Over the years we've bought and sold so we've gotten rid of the damaged ones to get the more pristine ones. Only 3 or 4 of them have really needed restoration. Not so for the paintings, though. Many of them are original (no restoration), on their original stretchers with their original frames. Several have had to be cleaned professionally, but not really restored save one that had about a 8 inch rip down it's side. Now you would never know it had been torn. Since some of canvases were found rolled up or had boxes on top of them for many years, they needed to be put on new stretchers. As my husband is from Mexico, when we need frames we have them made there in the style of the painting. A few of the retablos are in tin nichos and orginal painted frames, but the vast majority are just the tin retablos with a hole punched in the top to hang it from a nail.We have them all over the house, including the kitchen where St. Pascal Baillon holds a place of prominence (as in most old Mexican homes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandelynmarie Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share Posted October 2, 2011 I am most familiar with the tin ones. Who is St. Pascal Baillon & why is he in the kitchen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feankie Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 First off, my spelling was off.... always in a hurry! St. Pascual Bailon is usually pictured kneeling (or sometimes levitating) in the kitchen. A stove with a boiling pot of food is also pictured in back of him or at the side. There is always an angel floating above him holding a monstrance. He was a poor shepherd boy when he entered the Friars Minor. He was assigned to copious kitchen duties and none of the other friars could understand how he got his kitchen duties done as he was always in front of the Blessed Sacrament. He is the patron saint of cooks, shepherds, and several eucharistic confraternities. We have about 30 retablos that are painted on copper, but the rest are on tin. Copper was generally used in the 18th century and then became too expensive for ordinary people. They turned to tin which was much less expensive and easier to obtain. Most of our pieces are either 10X14 or 7X10.inches The largest one on tin we have is 14x20 while the smallest is 2 1/2 x 3 1/2 inches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Wow - fascinating picture of a time in history. No, not Carmelite. Habit is white, mantle is blue-grey, wimple is on the outside of the habit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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