Is The Old Testement Really Gods Word ?

[Winchester]

No. It's lots of words, not just one.

[Basilisa Marie]

Some people previously have posted some good stuff. My biblical studies professor once told my class that a while ago some archaeologists went out to find the "real" ruins of the places in the Old Testament, like the walls of Jericho and Noah's ark and the Exodus. Know what they found? Nothing. There's virtually no evidence for anything before the kings (Saul, David, Solomon, etc), and even then what there is is so inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. Does this mean that the Old Testament isn't true or divinely inspired? No, of course not. If anything, its even more amazing what God can do with so very little. Whether or not Abraham was a real person who did all the things attributed to him or if he was fictional, the point of the story is for us to ask ourselves "what does this tell us about the truth about God and ourselves, our relationship with Him?" If anything, the Old Testament overall shows us that no matter how corrupt and fallible humanity is, God is always faithful, unconditionally. And that love is why He sent His son, Jesus.

[rizz_loves_jesus]

[quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1316983365' post='2310008']
That contrast is basically the whole point of our faith. Jesus came to save sinners...to restore that broken relationship between us and God.

Regarding innocent people being hurt, raped, killed ... turn on the news one night. That still happens every day, even to Christians. Loss and suffering are part of the world we live in.

At the same time, the Old Testament is part of our Scriptures because Judaism is the foundation of our faith. We need to understand what Jesus believed, and what happened in the years leading up to His birth, in order to get the full picture of WHY Jesus came.

One leads to the other. We wouldn't need Jesus if not for everything that happened in the Old Testament, starting with Adam and Eve.
[/quote]

I think people's problem with the OT, though, isn't that innocent people were raped and killed, but that God supposedly ordered them to be raped and killed.


[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1317055241' post='2310466']
Some people previously have posted some good stuff. My biblical studies professor once told my class that a while ago some archaeologists went out to find the "real" ruins of the places in the Old Testament, like the walls of Jericho and Noah's ark and the Exodus. Know what they found? Nothing. There's virtually no evidence for anything before the kings (Saul, David, Solomon, etc), and even then what there is is so inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. Does this mean that the Old Testament isn't true or divinely inspired? No, of course not. If anything, its even more amazing what God can do with so very little. Whether or not Abraham was a real person who did all the things attributed to him or if he was fictional, the point of the story is for us to ask ourselves "what does this tell us about the truth about God and ourselves, our relationship with Him?" If anything, the Old Testament overall shows us that no matter how corrupt and fallible humanity is, God is always faithful, unconditionally. And that love is why He sent His son, Jesus.
[/quote]

Is it possible that God did not literally order horrible things to happen to those people? I've thought about this a lot recently. It just doesn't match up.

Edited September 27, 2011 by rizz_loves_jesus

[Basilisa Marie]

[quote name='rizz_loves_jesus' timestamp='1317092773' post='2310763']

Is it possible that God did not literally order horrible things to happen to those people? I've thought about this a lot recently. It just doesn't match up.
[/quote]

I think so. But at the same time, there are very real consequences to rejecting God.

Edited September 27, 2011 by Basilisa Marie

[rizz_loves_jesus]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1317093243' post='2310764']

I think so. But at the same time, there are very real consequences to rejecting God.
[/quote]

That's what I'm thinking. I don't want to go against God or the Bible, but I do believe God is logical. Why would rape be such a heinous crime if He Himself ordered it in the OT? I've never gotten a clear answer for this.

[stevil]

[quote name='rizz_loves_jesus' timestamp='1317094102' post='2310769']

That's what I'm thinking. I don't want to go against God or the Bible, but I do believe God is logical. Why would rape be such a heinous crime if He Himself ordered it in the OT? I've never gotten a clear answer for this.
[/quote]
That would be like saying that people who rape and murder are god-like.

It's the Christian way, or it used to be the Christian way. Or maybe it was the pre-Christian way, before Christ walked the earth. But does this then mean that god's stint on earth taught god not to be horrible to people, which would mean god learnt something and changed from this experience, which is contrary to his perfect, eternal, unchanging nature as taught by Christians.

[mortify]

God kills us all in the end

[AccountDeleted]

There's an interesting book called, God, A Biography by Jack Miles

[url="http://www.jackmiles.com/Home/books/god-a-biography"]http://www.jackmiles.com/Home/books/god-a-biography[/url]

that looks at God through the literary perspective and uses the Old Testament to describe God's own personal journey and interaction with mankind... then he wrote a sequel about the New Testament called Christ, A Crisis in the Life of God about Jesus which I didn't find quite as good. It is all vivid imagination but a very human way of trying to understand God's motives.

Disclaimer: the book is NOT Catholic and not in line with Catholic teaching, and I do not ascribe to the theories in it, but I did find it fascinating - sort of like reading a science fiction book about this supreme creature.

[Proud2BCatholic139]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1316967405' post='2309757']
If as a catholic abortion is such an issue ( which I believe it should be) how could it be even be plausible God would instruct an army to kill even babies when they invaded ? This question needs answered. Or did mabey that command really not come from God?
[/quote]

In Judaism there is the belief in "Potential Life". Most Jews believe that life beings after the baby comes out of their mother's womb.
Just think of today. Many women and unborn children are killed during war. Is it fair to say that God has instructed the men and women in the military to kill women and unborn children? This is just something to think about.

Edited September 28, 2011 by Proud2BCatholic139

[stevil]

But don't Catholic's believe that god stopped instructing people once the last of the 12 apostles died?
For 2000 years god instructs no-one.
People just do what people do.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='stevil' timestamp='1317186192' post='2311471']
But don't Catholic's believe that god stopped instructing people once the last of the 12 apostles died?
For 2000 years god instructs no-one.
People just do what people do.
[/quote]


?????? what ?????

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

pax domine bretheren and others,
and ToTheQuoteAboveMe, Um no, the philosophy of do what ever the hell you wan't to i believe came in about the 60s? yes? no? i don't know?... any how just wanted to talk on this subject, i think i read somewhere in the bible that man can not reveal the will of god entirely perfectly,does this eliminate all the bible? No, i don't think so, just allows us discernment, but in that the gospels are directly from jesus the 2nd person of the holy trinity(or is that third, this is all new to me i know that yaweh is first person,but anyhow) this means possibly the gospels are the top of the charts if the bible is a top 40. Pop Goes tha weasel, NYAH BIG BAD WOLF, YOU CANT CATCH MEEEE NYEH HEH HEH HEH HEHHHH, IM THE GINGER BREAD MAN. lol j/k kinda, on tha whole ginger bread man outburst, that is seriously funny no? to tha big bad wolf ( St francis of assisi pray for us) Not that i'm a wolf killer or nothing just when will there be peace between the big bad wolf,the ginger bread man,goldi lox and the three little pigs,shucks,i ain't no wolf killer unless dem wolf tryna kill me haha would prefer to be able to teach the wolf peace though,again St francis of assisi pray for us.

God bless you all

Edited September 28, 2011 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[stevil]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1317187560' post='2311478']


?????? what ?????
[/quote]
No?

I don't know the ins and outs of Catholisism, just here to learn a little about you folks. Maybe I got my words twisted or something?
But I was told something changed once the last apostle died, that god no longer revealed himself directly. Something like that. The person who told me was on this forum and is studying to be a nun.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='stevil' timestamp='1317195424' post='2311513']
No?

I don't know the ins and outs of Catholisism, just here to learn a little about you folks. Maybe I got my words twisted or something?
But I was told something changed once the last apostle died, that god no longer revealed himself directly. Something like that. The person who told me was on this forum and is studying to be a nun.
[/quote]


I think we have a misunderstanding here. your original post stated that 'god stopped instructing people once the last of the 12 apostles died' and this second post says that 'god no longer revealed himself directly'. These statements don't say exactly the same thing.

God spoke through His Son and now reveals Himself through the Holy Spirit, and guides us through the teachings of the Catholic Church. Jesus told us that He had to leave so that He could send us the Holy Spirit. The HS is the third person of the Trinity - in order words, God. So God is still instructing us and has been for the past 2000 years. Jesus said He would not leave us orphans.

[Maximilianus]

Public revelation ended with the last Apostle.