Quietfire Posted April 29, 2004 Author Share Posted April 29, 2004 So I am led to believe... If you are Jewish, and you accept Jesus, refuse all the teachings of christianity, but accept Jesus, and Jesus only..... then is it safe to say its somewhat of an 'oxymoron' Can we all agree to that? If so... can I get an AMEN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 [quote name='Traditional' date='Apr 29 2004, 03:39 PM'] Oh, and to answer the question: No, you cannot accept Our Lord and deny His Church. Anyone who denies His Church denies Him; therefore, all who are not Catholic do not accept Our Lord, they merely THINK they do. Per Mariam. [/quote] If they think they are living in His Church, then they are Catholic by desire. If they truly seek Christ with an honest heart, then God shows mercy. Now, if they know the Catholic Church was built by Christ and then reject her, then there is no chance for salvation until they accept the Way of Christ as taught by His Church. God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 Anyone heard of Jesus Jews or "Messianic Jews"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quietfire Posted April 29, 2004 Author Share Posted April 29, 2004 [quote]If they think they are living in His Church, then they are Catholic by desire.[/quote] that maybe the case....they seem to detest the Church and its teachings, do not allow themselves to be called Christians, practice complete sola scripture, show contempt towards Christians even outside the Church...accusing ALL that are not like them and think like them to be in error. [quote]Now, if they know the Catholic Church was built by Christ and then reject her, then there is no chance for salvation until they accept the Way of Christ as taught by His Church.[/quote] They do not acknowledge the Catholic Church in any sense of the word. I could go on.... but it turns my stomach to think of the words they used to describe the Church. PEACE, Quietfire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the lumberjack Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 quiet fire called me a christian... too much love out to you, QF. God bless. and yeah, Paladin, I've heard of Jesus Jews...they even have their own sites and what not. pretty cool stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quietfire Posted April 29, 2004 Author Share Posted April 29, 2004 [quote] by thicke Does this person's group (you keep saying "they") have a name? Do they read the Bible, both Old and New Testaments? [/quote] Sorry, missed that question. I asked, I came right out and asked what 'manner of faith they are' I got so many different 'names' that I think it threw them off. No one had bothered to ask that question before. Some claim to be in between Judaism and christianity Some claim to be recovering catholics-detest the Church Some claim to be recovering christians. Some claim to be Jewish, observing all the jewish customs, and accepting Jesus. They 'assume' that if two agree on something in the bible, then it must be true. Although they constantly debate as to what to agree on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quietfire Posted April 29, 2004 Author Share Posted April 29, 2004 [quote]quiet fire called me a christian... too much love out to you, QF. God bless.[/quote] Lumberjack, I really do love you, brother. We may not agree with everything..but thats why we're here...to grow, right? Besides, if you did agree with me on everything......you'd be my husband! *husband* yes, dear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiat_Voluntas_Tua Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 There is a website that is titled Jews4Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quietfire Posted April 29, 2004 Author Share Posted April 29, 2004 (edited) Yeah, Ive been there. This site(the one I'm talking about) DENOUNCES them(Jews4Jesus) as well. Claim they are just as bad as the CC. Claim they are just like the JW's that they are as crooked, just like christians. too wierd. I suppose I should have rephrased my topic name to this.. Can you be Jewish - accept Christ- but not Christianity? Does that make sense? Edited April 29, 2004 by Quietfire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted April 29, 2004 Share Posted April 29, 2004 (edited) [quote name='Quietfire' date='Apr 29 2004, 05:05 PM'] Yeah, Ive been there. This site(the one I'm talking about) DENOUNCES them(Jews4Jesus) as well. Claim they are just as bad as the CC. Claim they are just like the JW's that they are as crooked, just like christians. too wierd. I suppose I should have rephrased my topic name to this.. Can you be Jewish - accept Christ- but not Christianity? Does that make sense? [/quote] No... you cannot accept Jesus and reject the Way that He created. Luke 10:16 "He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me" They reject the ones sent by Christ. But... if they believe they are serving God the way God wants them to, they are Catholic by desire. God shows mercy to those that love Him, even though they might be wrong on how to love Him. [b]Romans 2:13 [/b] For it is not those who hear the law who are just in the sight of God; rather, those who observe the law will be justified. [b]14 [/b]For when the Gentiles who do not have the law by nature observe the prescriptions of the law, they are a law for themselves even though they do not have the law. [b]15 [/b][u]They show that the demands of the law are written in their hearts[/u], while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even defend them [b]16 [/b]on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge people's hidden works through Christ Jesus. The New Law is Christ. God Bless, ironmonk Edited April 29, 2004 by ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thicke Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 [quote name='the lumberjack' date='Apr 29 2004, 02:29 PM'] quiet fire called me a christian... [/quote] LJ - Have you been baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 (edited) [quote name='thicke' date='Apr 29 2004, 08:47 PM'] LJ - Have you been baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit? [/quote] That does not constitute a Christian. Mary was the first Christian and she was not baptized. She was the first Christian when she accepted to be the Mother of our Lord. First and foremost a basic Christian is someone who believes that Christ is the son of God. Secondly, a advanced Christian is someone who believes that they are following the Way of Christ. Thirdly, a complete Christian is a practical Catholic. If LJ truly believes with a sincere heart that he is servering God the way that Christ wants him to, then he is Christian, even though some of his beliefs are not accurate. God Bless, ironmonk Edited April 30, 2004 by ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikkan_hanil Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Apr 29 2004, 04:51 PM'] No... you cannot accept Jesus and reject the Way that He created. Luke 10:16 "He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me" They reject the ones sent by Christ. But... if they believe they are serving God the way God wants them to, they are Catholic by desire. God shows mercy to those that love Him, even though they might be wrong on how to love Him. [/quote] So Messianic Jews who attend (and of course, follow) Church are validly Christian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quietfire Posted April 30, 2004 Author Share Posted April 30, 2004 thats deep Ironmonk, and seems to clear up alot for me. As far as this topic goes. I used your stuff from the Bible. I guess when it comes to those mentioned they could be considered an Advanced Christian. I think that they believe that they are following the way of Christ, but by following the laws of the old testament. Saturday sabbath Passover No Pork No 'pagan' holidays- christmas, easter, halloween (thier words) the law of circumcision I'm sure you understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thicke Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 [quote name='ironmonk' date='Apr 29 2004, 07:51 PM']That does not constitute a Christian.[/quote] I never said baptism is required to be a Christian, now did I? While not all Christians have been baptized, all baptized (with the right form) persons are Christians.... [quote]"However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church." CCC #818[/quote] [quote]"Reborn as sons of God, [the baptized] must profess before men the faith they have received from God through the Church" and participate in the apostolic and missionary activity of the People of God. Baptism constitutes the foundation of communion among all Christians, including those who are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church: "For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Justified by faith in Baptism, [they] are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church."81 "Baptism therefore constitutes the sacramental bond of unity existing among all who through it are reborn." CCC #1270,1271[/quote] I think of Lumberjack as a Christian, I believe he has Christ in his heart as evidenced by his zeal for expressing what he believes to be the truth. But, if he is baptized with the proper form, I can [b]know[/b] him to be a Christian. [quote name='ironmonk' date='Apr 29 2004, 07:51 PM']Mary was the first Christian and she was not baptized. She was the first Christian when she accepted to be the Mother of our Lord. [/quote] I know that. You're preaching to the choir. Lumberjack - I love you as a brother Christian. I hope you continue to seek the truth, even if only in your own way..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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