BarbTherese Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 (edited) [quote name='InPersonaChriste' timestamp='1316178983' post='2305384']I'm afraid that scruples started to be normal for me. And of course living out on a farm I would have countless hours to entertain doubts. Its getting out of this malicious cycle of emotion that is the hardest part. The priest who knew me very well moved away, and I havent really felt comfortable with any of the other priest in our seperate parishes (though i know that reconciliation is the same and I am grateful for the chance to even have confession!). Their is no use in tormenting myself about these things. Yet I continually do. [/quote] I know what you mean about scruples becoming the normal way of life - I suffered with scruples for years and weighed up every little matter, thought word and deed and then remained unsure of its nature. Whether it was sinful or not and tending towards that it was sinful. It is a dreadful state and spiritual writers do tend towards that it can be a growth stage in the spiritual life as one's conscience becomes sensitive to sin per se. It can also be the product of neuroses or psychological disorder. It can even be a mixture of the two. Once I realized I was scrupulous, I knew it was foolish to continue tormenting myself, and yet was unable to avoid doing so and often. This is a feature of the scrupulous state. It sounds as if you are isolated and not a good place when one is suffering from scruples i.e. psychological isolation with only one's own company and that company most always a tormentor of what Peace one may experience, if any. Rest assured that the circumstances in which you find yourself, i.e. on a farm and rather isolated, and that that priest with whom you felt comfortable has moved away and you do not feel comfortable with subsequent priests are all well known to The Lord, who is permitting you to be in this scrupulous state. Since you do recognize your state as scruples (I did not initially) when you do go to Confession, mention to Father that you are suffering scruples and then mention anything that is disturbing your Peace and let Father work out (he is the expert) how to deal with what you do confess. If he simply gives you a penance and says nothing about what you have confessed, then pray your penance and be very assured that you are now in a state of all Grace with all your offences, whether real or imagined, are fully forgiven. If you are being tormented over some particular matter that you may fear is serious and am unable to get to Confession, tell God you are sorry with all simplicity and resolve to go to Confession at your next opportunity. With that and with actually going to Confession at your next opportunity, you are fully forgiven. Having experienced scruples myself, if you start to fear that something is serious and you die before you can go to Confession, rest assured that your serious matter is forgiven anyway. This is because God knows that if you had the opportunity to go to Confession before death, you certainly intended to do so and would have done so. I have read that the problem nowadays is not scruples, rather that many seem to have lost a sense of sin altogether. Of these two spiritual problems, the latter is the far more serious and concerning. Scruples are a product of the imagination, imaginary and unreal matters that torment a person. Loosing a sense of sin is a very real matter and nothing of the imagination where real and evem serious sin is disregarded as meaningless. Many of our saints suffered with scruples and scruples are cruel. But better scruples, if one had to choose, than to loose a sense of sin. Far better still is to move out of the state of scruples and with a heightened sensitivity to sin and failures - and I will be keeping you in daily prayer. I am hoping that others will come into this thread on the matter of scruples - and it could be better in the spirituality forum and get more responses. You can always ask a moderator to transfer the thread for you if it would be better located elsewhere. God bless and keep you as He does for scruples are not sinful - but they are a dreadful and cruel spiritual suffering................Barb Edit: Another thing I recall from my own experience of scruples is that if you dont know whether to confess something or not, because you dont know whether it is a sin or not. Confess it anyway and tell Father you dont know whether it is sinful or not. Even though you do not feel comfortable with your current priests, be very assured Jesus will NOT allow you to be misled by them. Even though it may SEEM that they have. Been there and dont that! (smiling) Edited September 17, 2011 by BarbaraTherese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InPersonaChriste Posted September 17, 2011 Author Share Posted September 17, 2011 [quote name='BarbaraTherese' timestamp='1316220906' post='2305650'] I know what you mean about scruples becoming the normal way of life - I suffered with scruples for years and weighed up every little matter, thought word and deed and then remained unsure of its nature. Whether it was sinful or not and tending towards that it was sinful. It is a dreadful state and spiritual writers do tend towards that it can be a growth stage in the spiritual life as one's conscience becomes sensitive to sin per se. It can also be the product of neuroses or psychological disorder. It can even be a mixture of the two. Once I realized I was scrupulous, I knew it was foolish to continue tormenting myself, and yet was unable to avoid doing so and often. This is a feature of the scrupulous state. It sounds as if you are isolated and not a good place when one is suffering from scruples i.e. psychological isolation with only one's own company and that company most always a tormentor of what Peace one may experience, if any. Rest assured that the circumstances in which you find yourself, i.e. on a farm and rather isolated, and that that priest with whom you felt comfortable has moved away and you do not feel comfortable with subsequent priests are all well known to The Lord, who is permitting you to be in this scrupulous state. Since you do recognize your state as scruples (I did not initially) when you do go to Confession, mention to Father that you are suffering scruples and then mention anything that is disturbing your Peace and let Father work out (he is the expert) how to deal with what you do confess. If he simply gives you a penance and says nothing about what you have confessed, then pray your penance and be very assured that you are now in a state of all Grace with all your offences, whether real or imagined, are fully forgiven. If you are being tormented over some particular matter that you may fear is serious and am unable to get to Confession, tell God you are sorry with all simplicity and resolve to go to Confession at your next opportunity. With that and with actually going to Confession at your next opportunity, you are fully forgiven. Having experienced scruples myself, if you start to fear that something is serious and you die before you can go to Confession, rest assured that your serious matter is forgiven anyway. This is because God knows that if you had the opportunity to go to Confession before death, you certainly intended to do so and would have done so. I have read that the problem nowadays is not scruples, rather that many seem to have lost a sense of sin altogether. Of these two spiritual problems, the latter is the far more serious and concerning. Scruples are a product of the imagination, imaginary and unreal matters that torment a person. Loosing a sense of sin is a very real matter and nothing of the imagination where real and evem serious sin is disregarded as meaningless. Many of our saints suffered with scruples and scruples are cruel. But better scruples, if one had to choose, than to loose a sense of sin. Far better still is to move out of the state of scruples and with a heightened sensitivity to sin and failures - and I will be keeping you in daily prayer. I am hoping that others will come into this thread on the matter of scruples - and it could be better in the spirituality forum and get more responses. You can always ask a moderator to transfer the thread for you if it would be better located elsewhere. God bless and keep you as He does for scruples are not sinful - but they are a dreadful and cruel spiritual suffering................Barb Edit: Another thing I recall from my own experience of scruples is that if you dont know whether to confess something or not, because you dont know whether it is a sin or not. Confess it anyway and tell Father you dont know whether it is sinful or not. Even though you do not feel comfortable with your current priests, be very assured Jesus will NOT allow you to be misled by them. Even though it may SEEM that they have. Been there and dont that! (smiling) [/quote] Thank You BarbaraTherese, I pray to many of the saints who have suffered scruples. And oddly enough talking about this on the Phatmass Phorum has helped me get a little of my prayer time that i put aside back. Which is good! I hope that when I move next week to a closer location I may be able to take Spiritual Direction. It has been hard to not have someone to guide you when you live so far out in the country. I am also incredibly scared of the move I do have to admit. I hope that other people will post their scruple dealings, or something else along those lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbTherese Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 I did a reply, IPC - and then lost it! I have to leave the computer now and am committed tonight too after Saturday Vigil Mass - but rest assured I will return. You are really doing great - the time we spend in prayer is not as important as the heart we bring to prayer - sharing with The Lord what is really in our hearts, since He knows our heart in the first place. I am really hoping others will share in this thread too. "Bear ye one another's burdens" and it can be very true that a burden shared is aburden lightened and how else can we bear another's burdens unless they are willing to share them with us, as you have done in this thread - and giving us an opportunity to be helpful if we can. God bless and I will catch up with you and this thread later, hopefully with more posts contributed. Scruples are not uncommon it seems, and some realize their problem, some do not. And the first step in overcoming any problem at all is to identify it and own it as our problem. Hence you are one step (at very least!) on the way to overcoming scruples............Barb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InPersonaChriste Posted September 17, 2011 Author Share Posted September 17, 2011 We may have to start a "fresh" thread on the topic of scruples? Thanks Barbara Therese! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbTherese Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 I think a new thread on "scruples" is an excellent idea! When you do, do you think it a good idea too to link to this thread in your post.? Let me know which forum you choose - also I have been able to locate some good links and one excellent and highly recommended book on scruples (author a priest) and will wait until you advise me which forum you have chosen before posting same into the new thread. Would you mind posting your chosen forum into this thread for me please as for some reason I have lost my "New Content" feature. Regards - Barb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InPersonaChriste Posted September 18, 2011 Author Share Posted September 18, 2011 Probably Vocation Station just because most people discerning seem to have this tendency! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbTherese Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Vocation forum it is. Thank you for letting me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 You might want to start a thread on scruples in Open Mic since it isn't only those discerning religious life who experience this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InPersonaChriste Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 [quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1316430672' post='2306829'] You might want to start a thread on scruples in Open Mic since it isn't only those discerning religious life who experience this. [/quote] thats a good idea! but i am afraid that i do not have enough time this week.. more moving, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 [quote name='InPersonaChriste' timestamp='1316436651' post='2306898'] thats a good idea! but i am afraid that i do not have enough time this week.. more moving, [/quote] Ah... have fun. I just moved myself - lots of hard work and still unpacking and cleaning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 (edited) I read something by St Padre Pio that really made me think... he said that humility is to recognize your abjection. A greater humility is to love it. When you'll come to the point that you don't mind so much for others to know your failings and instead of making you discouraged, it brings you joy to be able to NEED God's mercy... then probably that is humility. But I'm no spiritual director so maybe my interpretation is incorrect. God bless Edited October 17, 2011 by MarysLittleFlower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 [quote name='MarysLittleFlower' timestamp='1318811989' post='2322342'] I read something by St Padre Pio that really made me think... he said that humility is to recognize your abjection. A greater humility is to love it. When you'll come to the point that you don't mind so much for others to know your failings and instead of making you discouraged, it brings you joy to be able to NEED God's mercy... then probably that is humility. But I'm no spiritual director so maybe my interpretation is incorrect. God bless [/quote] Sounds pretty good to me - kind of along the lines of St Paul saying that he was happy to be weak because it was through this that Christ's power was known. The moer I see my own weakness, the more I am able to rejoice in God's mercy as well... and to see His great love for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandelynmarie Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 "Heal me, O LORD, and I shall be healed; save me, and I shall be saved: for you are my praise." Jeremiah 17:14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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