Liberal Catholics And Huge Emphasis On Social Justice

[tinytherese]

I'm sorry for sounding bitter.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=2304159"][img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_images/phatmass/snapback.png[/img][/url]tinytherese, on 13 September 2011 - 10:13 PM, said:

Inclusive language, doing this B.C.E. and C.E. dating, etc. I'm tired of all this bull at a Catholic university and one on the Newman Guide at that. I'll probably have to do graduate school just so I can actually learn something with substance for a change.

This is really more of a catharsis/advice perhaps trying to understand them yet frustrated at the same time thread. I don't want to judge them but at the same time that doesn't mean that we should simply hold hands and sing Kumbaya and ignore problems.

Juar remember little sister,the saints and priests and religious can point you in the right direction at times but salvation is the rite of god alone in the holy sacrements,the holy word of god and sacred tradition. In that the priesthood iz a sacrement too but i assume there main purpose iz tha concecration of the gifts and absolution of sin,not so much the homily. The best homily i am assured iz the chatechism and the holy word of god and by no way iz seeking the truth bitter.
Jesus "seek and ye shall find,knock and the door will be opened" he never states how many times we have to knock or how long we are to seek. Onward christian soul, your doing well

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[b] [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/115539-liberal-catholics-and-huge-emphasis-on-social-justice/page__view__findpost__p__2304162"]#16[/url] [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/user/6568-tinytherese/"][color="#272727"]tinytherese[/color][/url][/b]



Liberal theology- it's so fluffy![list]
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Posted Today, 10:27 PM
I'm sorry for sounding bitter.

No not bitter just one whom is seeking the truth, onward christian soul

[Winchester]

Usually what they mean by social justice is government enforced redistribution of wealth.

[Basilisa Marie]

[quote name='tinytherese' timestamp='1315912412' post='2304159']
Inclusive language, doing this B.C.E. and C.E. dating, etc. I'm tired of all this bull at a Catholic university and one on the Newman Guide at that. I'll probably have to do graduate school just so I can actually learn something with substance for a change.

This is really more of a catharsis/advice perhaps trying to understand them yet frustrated at the same time thread. I don't want to judge them but at the same time that doesn't mean that we should simply hold hands and sing Kumbaya and ignore problems.
[/quote]

Ahhh, I see what you mean. I thought you were moreso talking about peers than priests and professors...and I'd be a bit bitter too in your situation. To tell you the truth...you'll probably see some similar attitudes depending on your grad school program, but not [i]nearly [/i]as bad as what you're saying. I just went from reading a really amesome book about the spirituality of the Early Church to "She Who Is" - some rather icky version of feminist theology by an author whose later book was condemned by the USCCB. So grad school can be a mixed bag. But it sounds to me like a mixed bag is way better than anything you're getting now.

[quote name='tinytherese' timestamp='1315912412' post='2304159']She also believed in the aspect of renewal (aggiornamento) in Vatican II but not within the context of the other lung of returning to the sources (ressourcement.) [/quote]
THAT is a big problem. And I think this is exactly where the "Fluffy!" comes from. Most liberals I know at least embrace ressourcement as well (that's how they get all their evidence for..."interesting"...interpretations). To do otherwise is just....WRONG.

But practically...have you and any (remaining) Catholic friends tried going to your campus chaplain and trying to start up a more spiritual group? Even Mother Theresa spent an hour every morning in front of the Blessed Sacrament. It sounds to me that at this point, if you want meat you're going to have to go find it yourself, sadly. Maybe starting a reading/discussion group?

[Maggyie]

As other posters have said it's an "either/or" thing that with the rising generation is hopefully fading away. A lot of times there is just preaching to the choir. The liberal parish preaches to all the liberal Catholics about social justice and the conservative parish preaches to all the conservative Catholics about contraception. I don't know why they talk all day about truths they already believe, except it makes people feel good about themselves. It's not enough to say "oh we're evangelizing the parish." I'm sorry, but given the make-up of the parish they're already evangelized on issue x, y, or z to the hilt. There ARE usually areas of evangelization strangely lacking... but nobody talks about those...

The liberals should be preached to about sex and somebody ought to come into the local traditionalist parish and teach them about the death penalty, care of creation and welcoming immigrants. These are the areas for spiritual growth for these groups. But nobody will do it because I guess it's too painful. It makes everybody mad to be challenged that way. The Catholic Church: making everybody mad for 2,000+ years.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye' timestamp='1315910417' post='2304156']
pax domine...
I may be wrong but isn't the churches prime objective social justice.left,right or centre, in that her prime objective is to feed and clothe the poor though i know there are other social justice objectives,
[/quote]
No. The Church's prime objective is to lead souls to Heaven.

[Amppax]

[quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1315896522' post='2304123']
You shouldn't have to choose a parish that has beautiful liturgies [i]OR[/i] lots of social outreach ministries.

You shouldn't have to focus on helping others [i]OR[/i] personal sanctity.

You shouldn't have to choose between receiving the sacraments [i]OR[/i] serving your neighbor.

You shouldn't decide to share truth [i]OR[/i] love with your neighbor.

You shouldn't describe your goal in life as 'to be a good person' [i]OR[/i] 'to go to heaven.'

If you're following Jesus...it should be BOTH/AND.

But if you want to know why a particular person thinks or acts the way they do...ask that person. What Luigi said....if we use generalizations, we'll miss the point and misrepresent the people.
[/quote]

That was really, really beautiful, thank you.

[BG45]

[quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1315896522' post='2304123']
I think that social justice allows people to focus on unjust structures rather than on personal sanctity. So, in some ways, it's more comfortable...you can look at it as focusing on 'other people's sin' rather than on your own, and say, hey, they're the splinter/log people! BUT...social justice issues also make you look at society and say...hey...we're doing it wrong. Sure, my family may be well enough off to have a roof over our heads and food to eat and clothes to wear and access to a great education...but what about that homeless guy on the street or that lady in prison or that kid in the hospital? When you pay attention to the works of mercy, your eyes are opened to a bigger world. And sure, you might feel warm and fuzzy for giving the homeless guy something to eat or praying with the prisoner, but....why him and not me? How come I get to go home to my nice warm safe bed with no worries while thousands of kids in East Africa are starving tonight? And maybe just maybe...the way I'm living is doing something to contribute to those other situations I think are unacceptable. I think that getting into social justice and the heart of the Catholic social teachings can be very uncomfortable. So, I commend those who are willing to go there and do something about it.

Why do some people place more emphasis on this than others? Clearly because it's the aspect of the Christian message that speaks most clearly to them. That's what they see as important about being a Catholic.

I also agree with Amppax it should not be an either/or.

You shouldn't have to choose a parish that has beautiful liturgies [i]OR[/i] lots of social outreach ministries.

You shouldn't have to focus on helping others [i]OR[/i] personal sanctity.

You shouldn't have to choose between receiving the sacraments [i]OR[/i] serving your neighbor.

You shouldn't decide to share truth [i]OR[/i] love with your neighbor.

You shouldn't describe your goal in life as 'to be a good person' [i]OR[/i] 'to go to heaven.'

If you're following Jesus...it should be BOTH/AND.

But if you want to know why a particular person thinks or acts the way they do...ask that person. What Luigi said....if we use generalizations, we'll miss the point and misrepresent the people.
[/quote]

That rocked. I agree 100%.

When I came into the Church, the only place I heard about "Social Justice" more often than I did the Sacraments was on websites. The way my first confessor did his homilies was to not separate good works and sacraments into arbitrary piles, so imagine my shock when I moved and the first thing I hear out of a priest's mouth in a homily is, "Social Justice is the only way to Heaven." Fortunately it turned out that priest was only visiting...I only cautiously went back to that parish, but now it's home...and doesn't preach Social Justice as the only way to Heaven.

[Ice_nine]

Is it fair to say that social justice is a necessary means to the ultimate end which is the salvation of all mankind?

[Amppax]

[quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1315953816' post='2304412']
Is it fair to say that social justice is a necessary means to the ultimate end which is the salvation of all mankind?
[/quote]

Well we are saved through faith and good works, both are necessary. However, good works isn't defined solely as working towards social justice. So I'm not sure if that is quite a fair characterization, no. Please, If i'm wrong, someone :fishslap: me and correct me.

[Ice_nine]

Maybe there's so much focus on it because it's a point of agreement with even atheists/secularists and since they *sometimes* pitch a fit about other aspects of religion, Christians would rather take the path of least resistance and focus on social justice.

That's a good thesis. yup. Jeenyusss

[tinytherese]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1315919832' post='2304180']

But practically...have you and any (remaining) Catholic friends tried going to your campus chaplain and trying to start up a more spiritual group? Even Mother Theresa spent an hour every morning in front of the Blessed Sacrament. It sounds to me that at this point, if you want meat you're going to have to go find it yourself, sadly. Maybe starting a reading/discussion group?
[/quote]

That's a work in progress with a theological honor society now starting up. Our sponsor unfortunately is a theology professor who dabs into the new age movement and can tend to bend over backwards more than necessary so as not to "offend" any non Catholic students. To a certain extent I can see the value in that, but at the same time it's a Catholic school and we shouldn't be afraid of that identity and talking about it. If humbly done that can even evangelize our peers.

The campus ministry does have some events coming up like going to a young adult cookout with Archbishop Coakley. They usually just have presentations every week on a topic about the Catholic faith and a guest speaker every month but it's usually basic teachings of the faith or apologetics I already know about. It's meant to attract our non Catholic and non practicing Catholic classmates, but most usually don't come. Only a small population of the campus is Catholic, let alone practicing. We're in the Bible belt of Oklahoma where the monks on campus dress in casual clothing because of how many people in the area are anti-Catholic. The people in admissions especially favor recruiting athletes, most of them don't give a crud about Catholicism. We're still working on our Catholic identity reputation here to attract devout Catholics to come.

[Basilisa Marie]

[quote name='tinytherese' timestamp='1316019728' post='2304621']

That's a work in progress with a theological honor society now starting up. Our sponsor unfortunately is a theology professor who dabs into the new age movement and can tend to bend over backwards more than necessary so as not to "offend" any non Catholic students. To a certain extent I can see the value in that, but at the same time it's a Catholic school and we shouldn't be afraid of that identity and talking about it. If humbly done that can even evangelize our peers.
[/quote]

Is the society a chapter of Theta Alpha Kappa or something new your department is doing? If it's TAK you've got plenty of ground to propose something for the betterment of the student members in conjunction with whatever your adviser wants to do for the general campus. Maybe a common ground would be something involving Vatican II documents? Is there any tension between the abbey and the department? At my undergrad uni there was a bit of that between our seminary and our theo department, so they never did anything even remotely together. But if the monks are solid, getting them involved (i.e. inviting them to a discussion event or something) could help leaven the ideological bent. We had a separate group from TAK for theology events and got seminarians to come to those for some discussion. I'm just throwing ideas out here.

Edited September 14, 2011 by Basilisa Marie

[tinytherese]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1316021842' post='2304629']

Is the society a chapter of Theta Alpha Kappa or something new your department is doing? If it's TAK you've got plenty of ground to propose something for the betterment of the student members in conjunction with whatever your adviser wants to do for the general campus. Maybe a common ground would be something involving Vatican II documents? Is there any tension between the abbey and the department? At my undergrad uni there was a bit of that between our seminary and our theo department, so they never did anything even remotely together. But if the monks are solid, getting them involved (i.e. inviting them to a discussion event or something) could help leaven the ideological bent. We had a separate group from TAK for theology events and got seminarians to come to those for some discussion. I'm just throwing ideas out here.
[/quote]

Thanks. Yes it is TAK. A small group of monks are around campus chilling with students. The abbey as a whole though isn't known for orthodoxy. Over half of them voted for Obama. One of the priests from there is solid and well liked. We as a group really do need to get together but we just haven't for whatever reason. I can ask the peer of mine who is reviving it if we can do that.

[Mr.Cat]

I knew a doctor of catholic theology who said that a faith that doesn't work is dead. Social justice seems to be another way to say charity, at least in my observation.