University Or Religious Life?

[cmaD2006]

MM:

If a) you have no debt right now, and b) there is no other commitment that you have (I have no idea what that could be), then my one suggestion is to focus on the discernment. Try to get some sort of job. Apply to the SSEWs (if that is the community that most attracts you). Enter.

Having started over twice, I can honestly say that if you do take the risk to enter, and things don't work out God will not defraud you. He will respond.

So what would happen if you enter and you leave? Well, you may have to move back in with family. And then try to figure out what to do next -- which could very well mean going back to school and finishing the last two years, maybe more if too much time has elapse. But -- does that really matter? The growth that would happen by taking the risk to enter and living in community for a time is worth it.

I agree with what someone said ... make a decision. Go find a spiritual director ... or, maybe go talk with your usual confessor (if you have one priest you normally go to).

I do however strongly suggest that if you do feel a strong pull towards religious life, and you are accepted for entrance, then why not? Why not try it. It may just work out to be the place for you, and if not you will grow there too.

Finally I don't know if I agree with the idea of "go out and establish yourself." One simple reason -- right now you are dependent. That's a good trait for religious life. Going off on your own may just serve to grow you in independence, which in religious life you don't necessarily want.

In any case ... make a decision (in peace). Once you decide, just follow through with it. And trust that the Lord will not abandon you nor defraud you nor forsake you.

[ameliabedelia]

[quote name='MaterMisericordiae' timestamp='1315166694' post='2300140']

Are you discerning with a specific order right now? Do they require you to have a degree? If you aren't sure, it might be a wise idea to get in touch with the vocation director of whatever religious order you are most interested in and see what they say. Different orders have different requirements. I think all of the ones I have been interested in do not require a degree before you join because they send you to school. One good example is the order I mentioned -- the Religious Sisters of Mercy. Part of their charism chosen by Mother Catherine McAuley was to put great emphasis on professional training of her Sisters. Though the RSMs were not "technically" formed by Mother Catherine, they still keep her charism. I thought this was very interesting.
[/quote]

It just isn't my time to enter yet. Thank you for the concern though.

Edited September 5, 2011 by ameliabedelia

[MithLuin]

I agree with the general consensus: now doesn't seem the best time for you to continue your studies.

If you enter an order, they will deal with getting you the education you need to continue with them. If you discern and choose not to enter (or enter and leave), you can always go back to school at that time.

Debt is nasty, and taking on two years of college debt while unemployed can be quite daunting. You'll be in school for two years, and then paying off the debt for another few years after that...and then it may be too late for the whole discernment thing.

I'd say to focus on discernment and finding a job at the moment. You've completed an AA. Congrats! Now go do something

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='cmariadiaz' timestamp='1315183456' post='2300274']
MM:

If a) you have no debt right now, and b) there is no other commitment that you have (I have no idea what that could be), then my one suggestion is to focus on the discernment. Try to get some sort of job. Apply to the SSEWs (if that is the community that most attracts you). Enter.

Having started over twice, I can honestly say that if you do take the risk to enter, and things don't work out God will not defraud you. He will respond.

So what would happen if you enter and you leave? Well, you may have to move back in with family. And then try to figure out what to do next -- which could very well mean going back to school and finishing the last two years, maybe more if too much time has elapse. But -- does that really matter? The growth that would happen by taking the risk to enter and living in community for a time is worth it.

I agree with what someone said ... make a decision. Go find a spiritual director ... or, maybe go talk with your usual confessor (if you have one priest you normally go to).

I do however strongly suggest that if you do feel a strong pull towards religious life, and you are accepted for entrance, then why not? Why not try it. It may just work out to be the place for you, and if not you will grow there too.

Finally I don't know if I agree with the idea of "go out and establish yourself." One simple reason -- right now you are dependent. That's a good trait for religious life. Going off on your own may just serve to grow you in independence, which in religious life you don't necessarily want.

In any case ... make a decision (in peace). Once you decide, just follow through with it. And trust that the Lord will not abandon you nor defraud you nor forsake you.
[/quote]

This is the thought that I had. I really don't want to create a huge problem by acquiring student loan debt and not being able to answer the call because of it. I've heard of so many young women being forced to wait to answer because they took on too much debt in college. You expressed the same concerns I have.

I am really not opposed to entering without having lived on my own. I never thought of it the way you did, but I have heard of people entering without moving out of their parents and they stayed their whole lives. Being in the convent forces you to mature, which I am totally ready for.

Thank you, cmariadiaz. You validated what I've been thinking all along.

P.S. -- Not that it matters, but I am going to visit the Religious Sisters of Mercy before visiting the SsEW when I get the money saved up. After reading their charism several times and then hearing the news that JoyfulLife wasn't approved to enter because of her medical needs (which are very similar to mine), I realized that I need to go where there is support. The SsEW are beautiful, no doubt about it, but I'm starting to realize that maybe God isn't calling me there after all. The RSMs allow Sisters to work with them on choosing an apostolate and, God-willing, I would love to be a Social Worker in the order. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it, though.

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1315185303' post='2300283']
I agree with the general consensus: now doesn't seem the best time for you to continue your studies.

If you enter an order, they will deal with getting you the education you need to continue with them. If you discern and choose not to enter (or enter and leave), you can always go back to school at that time.

Debt is nasty, and taking on two years of college debt while unemployed can be quite daunting. You'll be in school for two years, and then paying off the debt for another few years after that...and then it may be too late for the whole discernment thing.

I'd say to focus on discernment and finding a job at the moment. You've completed an AA. Congrats! Now go do something
[/quote]

Thank you. See my response to cmariadiaz.

[Feankie]

I can see you are in a real conundrum with this. I tend to agree that 1. You're worried about getting into debt, 2.You're concerned about upper age limits in orders, 3. Job opportunities are few and far between these days, and most importantly 4. When you sit before our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament you've already got your answer! I'm speaking here as a 63 year old who works in professional and volunteer Church ministry (and have done so most of my adult life), I felt the call to religious life a L O N G time ago. As it says in Star Wars, in a galaxy far, far, away! Actually, it was in a time long, long past ) But my parents and other pushed me to attend University. And I did. And then they convinced me I should do something useful with my degree before making any decisions. And I did. And then, oops, Father Time caught up with me. I'm happily married for 38 years with 3 children and 4 grandchildren, but there's always that "what if" rumbling around in the back of my head. I'm rambling here I know (went to 6am Mass and have yet to have an coffee!) From your post it seems you live not to far from Rockford. I'm about 30 minutes away from Rockford on the Wisconsin side. PM me and perhaps we can get you to Rockford after all!
I pray daily for each and every one of you ---those who are discerning, those who have entered, and those are stuck in the middle of what to do. That's the least I can do!

[size=2]O Sacrament Most Holy, O Sacrament Divine, All Praise and All Thanksgiving, Be Every Moment Thine[/size]

[Feankie]

OOPS! There are SOO many of you out there discerning. I'm sorry, Mater. I thought you were discerning the PCC's in Rockford. Sorry for my error. Still, PM me and we'll still see if we can't get you up to Michigan. Did I get it right this time???

[carmenchristi]

[quote name='cmariadiaz' timestamp='1315183456' post='2300274']


Finally I don't know if I agree with the idea of "go out and establish yourself." One simple reason -- right now you are dependent. That's a good trait for religious life. Going off on your own may just serve to grow you in independence, which in religious life you don't necessarily want.

[/quote]

I would tend to disagree. I believe that a religious should have a good sense of independence, and learn to submit that independence. Otherwise, what's the point?

I entered right after highschool. I don't regret jumping in right away. I could see the difficulty adapting that some girls who were just a few years older than I had. I am still convinced though that if I had a bit more "life experience" when I entered I would have saved myself some very painful lessons.

Of course, it's also a bit different when you are older. You've been to college and had a certain about of independence anyway, so I don't really see it as crucial to get "life experience" in this situation.

My opinion would be to take the time to discern concretely, whether by entering or staying in close contact with the sisters or whatever. I personally would be careful and try to avoid taking out loans, because it could make things more difficult for you.

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='Francis Clare' timestamp='1315233284' post='2300482']
OOPS! There are SOO many of you out there discerning. I'm sorry, Mater. I thought you were discerning the PCC's in Rockford. Sorry for my error. Still, PM me and we'll still see if we can't get you up to Michigan. Did I get it right this time???
[/quote]

That's OK, F.C. LOL! I get people confused all the time, so don't feel bad. I read your PM and I'll get back to you very soon. Thanks a million.

[JulianofLdn]

I'm going to agree with those who suggest you take the time now to sincerely and seriously discern, especially since you have concerns regarding which orders may be open to you and your particular circumstance. It's time to whittle down the choices. Since you have the religious life itch, it's reasonable to want to see whether it's truly a call to vocation, or merely something that is attractive to you.

However - forgive me - it's also true that not long ago you weren't sure whether you even wanted to discern or not; I suspect you simply want to be doing something, anything, rather than equivocating. I know that feeling, very well! I also suspect you've been through this over and over again in your mind; you need a fresh perspective, somebody to break you out of your thinking. Serious discernment will at least allow you to do that.

As for a spiritual director... contact the Jesuits. I know in the UK, the Jesuits will help you locate a spiritual director of some kind. You *must* have some kind of guidance in all of this. It's easy to talk oneself into anything - I know! - and a critical friend is essential if you're not going to simply talk yourself into circles, as I said.

Either way, it is time to commit to a course of action, to follow it through and see where it leads you.

[TheresaThoma]

MM At this point I would just say trust God. Give Him room to work in your life, if you feel school would tie you down then I would suggest waiting and really focusing on discerning.
It can be hard to take that step. Because of my discernment I left a very good (but expensive) 4 year University. I realized graduating with $40,000 some dollars in debt was not going to help. I had no idea what I was going to do but now the Lord has poured out graces upon me and truely taken care of me. It hasn't been easy but I know that I am much freer to respond to His call.

[Sarah147]

[quote name='MaterMisericordiae' timestamp='1315159523' post='2300070']
This topic has been weighing on my mind lately. I am currently finishing up my Associates in Arts at the state college and am still figuring out where to go for University studies. However, I'm also trying to discern a calling to religious life. The vocation director for the SsEWs suggested that instead of entering the university, that I seriously discern my vocation. She has a point, too. If I go to university, I will most likely have to take out a student loan to pay for my education. I am planning to major in Social Work if I go. The problem is, what if I discern that I am indeed called to religious life while in university and can't enter because of student loan debt? I already had a problem with debt once before related to credit cards and it was while I was trying to enter the Carmelite Sisters of the Divine Heart of Jesus. They were trying to work with me to pay off the debt, but I didn't enter there and ended up using my unemployment compensation to pay everything off.

I don't know what to do. I don't have a spiritual director because there are none available in our diocese (I've looked EVERYWHERE). Has anyone been in this same predicament? What did you end up doing?
[/quote]

Mater, I think it depends on what Order you are called to. If it is the SsEW or another Order where you won't use your college education, then I think it wise to work on discerning Religious Life, and put college on hold (after you finish this last course).

However, if you are called to the RSM or another Order where your college education is used, you could get that education on the outside and then enter or get it when you enter. It might be wiser to get the education when you enter so you don't risk losing your vocation, or getting swept up by some guy, or getting stuck in debt. I believe they wait until you've been an entrant with them for a few years before they send you to college, so you will have solid time to focus and discern the Order.

Prayers for you.

[cmaD2006]

[quote name='carmenchristi' timestamp='1315238593' post='2300503']

I would tend to disagree. I believe that a religious should have a good sense of independence, and learn to submit that independence. Otherwise, what's the point?

I entered right after highschool. I don't regret jumping in right away. I could see the difficulty adapting that some girls who were just a few years older than I had. I am still convinced though that if I had a bit more "life experience" when I entered I would have saved myself some very painful lessons.

Of course, it's also a bit different when you are older. You've been to college and had a certain about of independence anyway, so I don't really see it as crucial to get "life experience" in this situation.

My opinion would be to take the time to discern concretely, whether by entering or staying in close contact with the sisters or whatever. I personally would be careful and try to avoid taking out loans, because it could make things more difficult for you.
[/quote]

I agree to some degree ... but I disagree in that she's 29. (which I think in essence we do agree). I entered religious life twice, once at 32, the second time at 37. I think I would have had an easier time (with respect to the independence) if I hadn't been out living on my own since 23, and in fact due to my personal circumstance I was dependent on myself since about 17. That makes a difference when all of a sudden you are asked to submit your independence to someone else .

So in a way its good that MM has been living at home. She has some independence but not the same as if she lived on her own .

[LaPetiteSoeur]

My parents told me I had to go and finish university before I entered any convent.

So here I am. And I know God wants me here, at least for now. I love my classes. I love the Catholic center--and I'm going to be either a catechist or a sponsor for RCIA!! I know that what I'm learning here will help me in religious life.

Thankfully, I have a 2/3 scholarship and my grandmother is paying for the rest. I'm at a public state school, so tuition is lower, much, much lower than Catholic university.

I'd ask a priest in confession. Maybe you could ask a priest you know to be your SD.

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='cmariadiaz' timestamp='1315266717' post='2300700']

I agree to some degree ... but I disagree in that she's 29. (which I think in essence we do agree). I entered religious life twice, once at 32, the second time at 37. I think I would have had an easier time (with respect to the independence) if I hadn't been out living on my own since 23, and in fact due to my personal circumstance I was dependent on myself since about 17. That makes a difference when all of a sudden you are asked to submit your independence to someone else .

So in a way its good that MM has been living at home. She has some independence but not the same as if she lived on her own .
[/quote]

It's nice to know that I'm not going crazy and that others are thinking the same thing. If age or debt wasn't a factor, I'd continue my education and then enter later, but that's not what I feel called to at this stage. I think that is why I've had such a tough time trying to decide which college to go to next semester. I think what I'm going to do is finish up this class, graduate with my AA, and then take the two foreign language courses which are required by most upper level state universities. But I'm going to take them at the junior college. Hopefully, I can get enough financial aid in order to pay for them.

If it does happen where I enter soon, it won't be for another year since the postulants have a set entrance date of September 8th (unless it has changed recently). The candidates enter in August and then are initiated to the postulancy. So it wouldn't hurt to take some classes and boost my GPA in preparation for higher education.

Edited September 6, 2011 by MaterMisericordiae