Socrates Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 [quote name='Light and Truth' timestamp='1315257630' post='2300624'] . . . Transgendered people will be out of place with their sex from early in life. (I have heard this also from a transgendered person I was reading about.) In terms of a gender reassignment surgery, this is a reply that I got from the monastery broadcaster. "Transgendered people are not 'altered to become a different sex,' they receive gender harmonisation surgery so that their body conforms to their actual sex." Consequently, I expect there is little wrong with referring to a transgendered person by the gender pronoun of his/her choice unless someone can respond to this to show otherwise. Here is the video that I found from the monastery. [/quote] This man has had extensive bodily modification operations to try to turn himself into a tiger. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ7zyNnEeyM[/media] [url="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1052934/Cat-Man--human-tiger-enjoys-climbing-trees-eats-raw-meat-day.html"]Cat Man - the human 'tiger' who enjoys climbing trees and eats raw meat every day[/url] He claims to have always felt he was a cat trapped in a human body. I suppose his situation is really no different than that of "transexuals" "Transspecies people are not 'altered to become a different species,' they receive species harmonisation surgery so that their body conforms to their actual species." Consequently, I expect there is little wrong with referring to a transspecied person as the species of his/her/its choice unless someone can respond to this to show otherwise." In these wondrous post-modern times, when objective reality does not matter, it is up to each individual to decide his/her/its own truth, and determine whether he/she/it is a man, a woman, a tiger, or a jumping spider. And the rest of us are now obligated to accept and play along with his/her/its decision, whatever it may be. We should all follow the example of the ever-so-enlightened parents of that [url="http://abcnews.go.com/Health/genderless-baby-controversy-mom-defends-choice-reveal-sex/story?id=13718047"]Canadian wonder-baby that's been in the news lately[/url]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbTherese Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Out of respect for the person, I always refer to transsexuals as "she". I think it is a very sad position for any person to find themselves in - and puts them on the fringes of society where they are often rejected and at times very cruelly so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmaD2006 Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 [quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1315346676' post='2301258'] Also, true charity demands that when dealing with or counseling people who wish to change their sex that we try to steer them toward the truth, rather than cater to their delusion. "Sex change" surgery of a physically healthy person remains a mortal sin. [/quote] True charity takes into account the situation. We aren't supposed to say everything in every situation. Sometimes prudence calls for not speaking. I agree that in the ideal situation, when counseling to steer the person to the truth. However, we can inflict a lot of pain if the truth is spoken at the wrong moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 [quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1315348099' post='2301259'] This man has had extensive bodily modification operations to try to turn himself into a tiger. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ7zyNnEeyM[/media] [url="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1052934/Cat-Man--human-tiger-enjoys-climbing-trees-eats-raw-meat-day.html"]Cat Man - the human 'tiger' who enjoys climbing trees and eats raw meat every day[/url] He claims to have always felt he was a cat trapped in a human body. I suppose his situation is really no different than that of "transexuals" "Transspecies people are not 'altered to become a different species,' they receive species harmonisation surgery so that their body conforms to their actual species." Consequently, I expect there is little wrong with referring to a transspecied person as the species of his/her/its choice unless someone can respond to this to show otherwise." In these wondrous post-modern times, when objective reality does not matter, it is up to each individual to decide his/her/its own truth, and determine whether he/she/it is a man, a woman, a tiger, or a jumping spider. And the rest of us are now obligated to accept and play along with his/her/its decision, whatever it may be. We should all follow the example of the ever-so-enlightened parents of that [url="http://abcnews.go.com/Health/genderless-baby-controversy-mom-defends-choice-reveal-sex/story?id=13718047"]Canadian wonder-baby that's been in the news lately[/url]. [/quote] You tiger now! [media='']http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It0ozA0dXQY[/media] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southern california guy Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I take it these women who chose to have their bodies mutilated have very low self-esteem and hate their bodies? They don't feel attractive? I've known lesbians like that, and suicide is very common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbTherese Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Low self esteem with hatred of one's body, suicidal tendancies, is not confined to lesbians or any other group or community in the general society - it is not at all selective of group or community and is very sad and saddening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 [quote name='Lizzy' timestamp='1315284295' post='2300966'] @Winchester Look, the brain and the body are two different things. If we can have genetic abnormalities that result in children being born with both female and male physical sexual characteristics, it only makes sense that every once in a rare while there is an abnormality that results in a male brain in a female body or vice versa. [/quote] No, the brain is part of the body, as much as the genitals are. And what exactly is a "male brain"? Does it have a penis and testicles hanging from it? [quote]While science isn't there right now to prove it, I'd be surprised if it weren't possible in the next 50 years.[/quote] An unproven hypothesis should never be the basis for allowing mutilation of the human body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithLuin Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 (edited) I would not counsel anyone to have the surgery. For one thing, it's a..false promise. It doesn't really make you into a person of the other sex. So, I could see it being a very disappointing experience and not the 'fix' the person was hoping for...nor worth the $10K. So, yes, if someone is a close friend and you are a confidante, yes, you can share your advice and reservations. But this thread was about how to address someone, and that usually means an acquaintance, not a friend. How one interacts with someone you have just met is generally governed by the rules of etiquette....and yes, that means accepting their introduction at face value. Some examples: [url="http://www.adahlshouse.com/2006/05/29/miss-manners-rocks-genteely-of-course/"]Miss Manners on wedding invitations[/url] [url="http://listserv.unl.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9810&L=calontir&D=1&T=0&P=6009"]Miss Manners on transsexuals changing their names[/url] Contrast this with legal scenarios: [url="http://www.buffalonews.com/wire-feeds/24-hour-world-news/article434184.ece"]Legal ramifications of name/sex changes in Malaysia[/url] [url="http://phobos.ramapo.edu/~jweiss/amsex.htm"]Use of workplace bathrooms by transsexuals[/url] Edited September 7, 2011 by MithLuin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 [quote name='Lizzy' timestamp='1315284295' post='2300966'] @MithLuin Thanks for the good information. @Winchester Look, the brain and the body are two different things. If we can have genetic abnormalities that result in children being born with both female and male physical sexual characteristics, it only makes sense that every once in a rare while there is an abnormality that results in a male brain in a female body or vice versa. While science isn't there right now to prove it, I'd be surprised if it weren't possible in the next 50 years. Now I can't speak for this Chaz person. Who knows if he falls into that category or if he's just confused. It's not our place to judge. [/quote] You can't be born with a male brain in a female body or the other way around because the body is one entity and the hormones that give me a female brain are the same hormones that give me a female body. You are not a subdivision with separate pathways. That being said the unborn can be influenced by excessive hormones either way in utero, but the basic structures don't change because of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrestia Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 [quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1315267328' post='2300706'] i thought in that case it was suggested that parents get their child's chromosomes tested? i'm afraid i can't remember much about that, though. [/quote] As far as gender is concerned, chromosomes alone do not tell the whole story, neither do hormone levels. MithLuin alluded to this earlier, but I think it's worth repeating. A person with normal looking XY sex chromosomes can have different levels of androgen insensitivity - where they are physiologically less capable or incapable of responding to testosterone or androgens. A person with complete androgen insensitivity will likely appear and feel just like a woman with normal XX. This phenomenon has caused much controversy in athletic competitions, women have lost eligibility due to chromosomal tests. A person with partial androgen insensitivity can land anywhere on the spectrum of gender identity; physically they develop abnormally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Beats me…personally I've never met one before but if it was a M2F and they sounded like a dude, I'd fosho mess up their preferred pronoun. Regardless, what they're doing is wrong simply by them dressing in woman's clothing. Or in Chaz's case, men's clothing. Deuteronomy 22:5 - A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on woman's clothing; for anyone who does such things is an abomination to the Lord your God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Wednesday Posted December 20, 2015 Author Share Posted December 20, 2015 A thread that I started over 4 years ago back up here again? Good lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 This isn't going to end well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatitude Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 1 hour ago, Selah said: This isn't going to end well. No. In fact, to preserve Christmas charity on PM, this is one act of necromancy that stops here - I am bundling the corpse back into its four-year-old grave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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