News About My Discernment

[cmaD2006]

JL ... I feel for ya. I know, I know how difficult it is to yearn for something that you can't visualize being accomplished anytime soon.

All I can say is that if you keep your focus on the ultimate prize -- i.e. the day that you are before the Lord and hopefully you will hear "Well done oh good and faithful servant" then you'll find your way. The how is incidental.

By focusing on Him and your relationship I am quite positive that He will guide and He will lead you to where you need to be. 100% confident of it.

Blessings and praying for you,

(sorry double post in the same post!)

Edited September 30, 2011 by cmariadiaz

[Sarah147]

Very hopeful and reassuring post.

[brandelynmarie]

Peace JL! Here is a little prayer that I love:

Lord, You are our Stillpoint.
We are here.
You are here.
We are where we are supposed to be,
for we are at the center of our beginnings. Amen. [u]The Little Monk[/u]

[Sarah147]

Cmaria, you said that you aren't actively looking at Orders, that you are just focusing on living for Jesus. How do you treat your time on the vocation station? In what way will you talk about religious life, where do you draw the line, so as not to be discerning or getting caught up in all of that?

When you see an Order mentioned on phatmass and you think you ought to look into them, how do you handle the temptation? How do you handle thoughts in the day about trying to find an Order? How are you judging when you will be ready for an Order?

Edited September 30, 2011 by JoyfulLife

[cmaD2006]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1317420107' post='2313042']
Cmaria, you said that you aren't actively looking at Orders, that you are just focusing on living for Jesus. How do you treat your time on the vocation station? In what way will you talk about religious life, where do you draw the line, so as not to be discerning or getting caught up in all of that?
[/quote]

Actually I use my time on VS for two things:
a) encouragement. Its great to read how others are out there looking for the way they are supposed to live life for Christ.
b) I *do* pay some attention as far as communities are concerned, but don't get drawn in like I used to. Its a heart thing I think. For example ... I looked at the Fransciscans of the Eucharist thread. They look to be wonderful ... but they're not local, and I am definitely not at a point where I could up and go again. And if I'm right they're really new, and I'm not up for being a founding member (to be a member of an established religious community vs. one that is starting is two totally different beasts ... alas that's a topic for another thread for sure).

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1317420107' post='2313042']
When you see an Order mentioned on phatmass and you think you ought to look into them, how do you handle the temptation? How do you handle thoughts in the day about trying to find an Order? How are you judging when you will be ready for an Order?
[/quote]

I am at the point where I don't get tempted to go find an Order. In fact honestly, I believe that when I left the convent the 1st time I said "I am not looking ... God will have to lead me there." And He did (after a year break from any discernment). I actually had settled on two orders fairly quickly back then (I did a come-and-see with one other order, and very quickly discerned that it wasn't the right one for me).

I am not tempted during the day to go find an Order. I'm more tempted to take the day off to relax, or (even better) to spend money on a silent retreat . Its really that one-on-one time with the Lord that focuses me. I'm horrible at praying daily (its been a struggle for, oh I don't know, 16 years!!!!). Yet I have such a grace for prayer when I am on retreat that I just completely love it and yearn for it after a while. Maybe some day I can get the daily life in order such that I can make prayer more of a priority instead of making other things come first (thanks PhatMass lol).

How am I judging when I will be ready for an order? PRAYER. That's it. He will let me know ... He has in the past, and He will in the future.

Even more important question. Do I *think* that I will ever enter a convent again? Honestly, I don't know. And you know what? I'm at that point in my life where I can actually say that is fine. Because mine is a love affair with my Lord and Savior. That is what leads me, and causes me to reflect and change. That is what causes me to give my life in service to Him.

I *think* (and I could be wrong, I've been wrong so many times) that I have surrendered that desire to Him. The desire to be fully His, in a religious community. Don't misunderstand -- I loved being in company of other like minded women who wanted to be His spouse, who lived a common charism and shared in a common work. I loved being in the postulant's uniform (I did not get to the novitiate). In the second community I entered, postulants were called sister, and it took a bit to get out of that habit when I returned. I loved the visible witness to the world -- it brought moments of sheer grace for others in the sharing, and moments of persecution as well.

However, regardless of what I loved about religious life, He has me here in the world right now as a lay person. It is more of a hidden witness, yet it is still quite public. Everyone around me, all of my coworkers know that I am a faith filled person who devotes her energy to the Catholic Church in service primarily to the hispanic community. Many know that I had given up everything twice to follow the Lord. They know that I am not married, that I do not have children, that I don't have a boyfriend whatsoever, that my vacations tend to be either to visit family or to go on retreats/pilgrimages. Those at the parishes that I have attended have known that I am not married. That there's never been another man around for centuries (other than the Lord). They know that I am a singer and a musician, yet they've never heard a secular song out of me or my guitar (I think I may have played a folk song or something of the sort in Argentina, but that's it). They see that I am at Mass regularly (4 times a week), and that on weekdays I'm running from work like a crazy mad woman to make it to Church on time.

Most funny is that most don't know that I am a professional ... from my way of dress its not all that obvious here in the US (someone in the Dominican Republic actually said something -- because I had $20 slacks on lol, US standards of more simple dress is quite different than in other 3rd world countries -- but I digress),

The most important witness I can give is with the way I live my life. Am I perfect in this regards? No -- I can think of the countless number of times when I have been a bad witness, when I did not give a person the attention they deserved or they received the brunt of my anger/sorrow when the person had nothing to do with it. Or when the person couldn't see the joy of belonging to Christ because all that I emmanated was non-joy. But ... all I can do is to try to change that. To try to attract others to Christ by the way I have chosen to live my life.

Hope that helps you and others . Its not easy but I do think (and I have been at fault at this too -- so I am speaking from my own experience) sometimes there is such a focus on the discernment that the ultimate goal of a vocation is lost. What God is calling you to vocation wise, although it is relevant, is not the end all. The end all is sanctity (i.e. to reach heaven/everlasting life with the Beloved), and a vocation is supposed to help you attain that. Focus on your santification, and I'm convinced you will be lead to where you should be, wherever that may be.

Blessing and peace to all

[b]And my apologies for the length of the post ... wow, I'm surprised.[/b]

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1317420107' post='2313042']
Cmaria, you said that you aren't actively looking at Orders, that you are just focusing on living for Jesus. How do you treat your time on the vocation station? In what way will you talk about religious life, where do you draw the line, so as not to be discerning or getting caught up in all of that?

When you see an Order mentioned on phatmass and you think you ought to look into them, how do you handle the temptation? How do you handle thoughts in the day about trying to find an Order? How are you judging when you will be ready for an Order?
[/quote]

I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in here. There is a difference between casually looking at an order and going into full blown discernment. I wasn't discerning from August 2010 to March 2011 and there would be times where I would hear of an order on here and think, "I'm just going to look at their website." It's a little difficult to separate yourself from active searching, but, sometimes, it is so necessary so that you can focus more on your relationship with God. I wouldn't have traded those 7 months of non-discernment for anything because I feel like I matured during that time in prayer and fellowship with my Church. Now, I'm just taking that deeper and active discernment doesn't seem so daunting anymore. I also have learned that I cannot get caught up in emotions. Emotions should not rule discernment, but they are part of the human experience.

Perhaps, you should take this time to read about growing in relationship with God. There are MANY good books out there that can help you in prayer and your spiritual life. Some that have helped me are:

[i]The Interior Castle[/i] by St. Teresa of Avila (you can read it on the internet at this[url="http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/tic/index.htm"] link [/url]or buy it on [url="http://www.amazon.com/Interior-Castle-St-Teresa-Avila/dp/1602062854/ref=sr_1_8?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1317423001&sr=1-8"]Amazon[/url])

[i]Abandonment to Divine Providence[/i] by Jean-Pierre deCaussade ([url="http://www.ccel.org/ccel/decaussade/abandonment.toc.html"]read online[/url] or buy on [url="http://www.amazon.com/TAN-Classic-Abandonment-Providence-Classics/dp/0895552264/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1317423153&sr=1-4"]Amazon[/url])

[url="http://www.amazon.com/Believe-Love-Personal-Retreat-Teaching/dp/1928832288/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1317423339&sr=1-1"][i]I Believe in Love[/i] by Jean C.J. d'Elbee[/url]

I normally don't care for St. Teresa of Avila's writings because I find them too complex, but [i]The Interior Castle[/i] was such a good read that I couldn't put it down.

[Sarah147]

Cmaria, what a beautiful post! Thank you so much.

Edited September 30, 2011 by JoyfulLife

[Sarah147]

I read Abandonment; I should read it again. I read the whole book on my last retreat.

The Interior Castle started out hard to read; I should try again.

[Sister Marie]

Dear Joyful,

One of the things I hear you doing in your discernment is trying to find a community that is able to accept you as you feel you are. While there is some need to match oneself to a community I'm worried that you are selling yourself and your future community short. One of the things that makes consecration in religious life so amazing is that all of us is consecrated - the sick, anxious, and difficult parts are all given over to God for Him to do as He pleases with them. That's why it is so important to be willing to allow those things to come into play however God chooses them to.

I think you are being very practical, as the world is practical, about thinking of an apostolate you think you could do, a charism that speaks to you, an amount of community living that suits you... The problem is that God could be calling you to something completely different and you might be severely limiting yourself to what you think you are able to do. After all, we know we "can do all things in Him who strengthens" us.

Trust me, I am not saying that you should pretend that you don't have some difficulties to think about - you do - I do - all of us do. It is really mature to be so aware of them and be able to responsibly disclose them and try to keep them in mind as you discern - but they are not your only factors in discernment - which I think you are aware of.

Your desire for religious life seems genuine and deep, but that isn't all there is to religious life, there are some very human parts that no matter where you are you will have difficulties. Community living, even in the most apostolic community, is an exercise of patience, sacrifice, hard work, annoyance, constant interaction and interruption, discomfort... (as well as all the good things I didn't list ) and would be difficult for someone without any of the difficulties you mentioned. The same is true for any apostolate. It brings with it huge responsibility when you are a religious whether you are in the classroom or answering the door - you are being Christ to the world and it is quite an overwhelming task.

Any religious life you choose is going to require a superabundance of emotional, social, mental and physical activity. I do not say any of this to discourage you though but to encourage you to maybe look at discernment from a different angle at the same time.

One of the things stressed in Canon Law about religious profession is that a woman be completely free in devoting oneself totally to God and the Church. While no one is holding your hand to the book to sign on the dotted line, it doesn't seem like you are a free person. You seem "enslaved" (pardon the dramatics) to the anxiety, education, and health problems you suffer from. You don't have to be though.

I used to think in the same way - "if there was more time for me to be alone, I would be able to..." "if only I didn't have to stand up in church for prayers, I wouldn't get so anxious..." "if only I could mop the floor and be left alone I could be a good sister." I wasn't free either because of the way I thought about the circumstances in my life that I couldn't change. You can't change your health, anxiety or education... but you can change the way you see yourself and think about it. It took me therapy to think in a way that opened me up beyond the limitations I put on myself. It didn't change any of the circumstances in my life but it allowed me to feel passion, take risks, and live in the radical freedom of total availability that I never thought myself able of. It isn't just that I am able though - I've found that it is the way of life that most compliments me, that calls me to be my best self, that serves God the best way I can, that images God's great plan of redemption in my own life. I really can't put words on the freedom I feel now as a religious woman. There is almost a recklessness about myself that I never allowed myself to experience before because of my fear or insecurity or shortcomings. It allows me to experience God past the limitations I put on Him as well.

I hope you understand that I really am not trying to discourage you but I hear a lot of my own thought processes in what you've said and there is a much more fulfilling way to think about and live in the difficulties all of us have in our lives. My hope is that you can be as "joyful" in religious life as you possibly can be and not because you are pacified but because you are on fire with love and passion for the Gospel and for Jesus Christ and serving the Church. I hope that you can take some of this time to work through some of these things so that you can be freer to answer Him without parameters and with a whole heart. Please do not be offended... as I said, I have been in a similar situation so I am not judging... I just desire good for you.

Blessings and sorry for talking too much!



Edited because I don't know what went wrong but... it came out crazy, haha

Edited October 1, 2011 by Sister Marie

[Chiara Francesco]

Sr. Marie, I think you've helped more people than just Joyful. What you wrote can apply to so many others. I took much out of what you wrote for myself.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Sister Marie' timestamp='1317428055' post='2313124']
Dear Joyful,

One of the things I hear you doing in your discernment is trying to find a community that is able to accept you as you feel you are. While there is some need to match oneself to a community I'm worried that you are selling yourself and your future community short. One of the things that makes consecration in religious life so amazing is that all of us is consecrated - the sick, anxious, and difficult parts are all given over to God for Him to do as He pleases with them. That's why it is so important to be willing to allow those things to come into play however God chooses them to.

I think you are being very practical, as the world is practical, about thinking of an apostolate you think you could do, a charism that speaks to you, an amount of community living that suits you... The problem is that God could be calling you to something completely different and you might be severely limiting yourself to what you think you are able to do. After all, we know we "can do all things in Him who strengthens" us.

Trust me, I am not saying that you should pretend that you don't have some difficulties to think about - you do - I do - all of us do. It is really mature to be so aware of them and be able to responsibly disclose them and try to keep them in mind as you discern - but they are not your only factors in discernment - which I think you are aware of.

Your desire for religious life seems genuine and deep, but that isn't all there is to religious life, there are some very human parts that no matter where you are you will have difficulties. Community living, even in the most apostolic community, is an exercise of patience, sacrifice, hard work, annoyance, constant interaction and interruption, discomfort... (as well as all the good things I didn't list ) and would be difficult for someone without any of the difficulties you mentioned. The same is true for any apostolate. It brings with it huge responsibility when you are a religious whether you are in the classroom or answering the door - you are being Christ to the world and it is quite an overwhelming task.

Any religious life you choose is going to require a superabundance of emotional, social, mental and physical activity. I do not say any of this to discourage you though but to encourage you to maybe look at discernment from a different angle at the same time.

One of the things stressed in Canon Law about religious profession is that a woman be completely free in devoting oneself totally to God and the Church. While no one is holding your hand to the book to sign on the dotted line, it doesn't seem like you are a free person. You seem "enslaved" (pardon the dramatics) to the anxiety, education, and health problems you suffer from. You don't have to be though.

I used to think in the same way - "if there was more time for me to be alone, I would be able to..." "if only I didn't have to stand up in church for prayers, I wouldn't get so anxious..." "if only I could mop the floor and be left alone I could be a good sister." I wasn't free either because of the way I thought about the circumstances in my life that I couldn't change. You can't change your health, anxiety or education... but you can change the way you see yourself and think about it. It took me therapy to think in a way that opened me up beyond the limitations I put on myself. It didn't change any of the circumstances in my life but it allowed me to feel passion, take risks, and live in the radical freedom of total availability that I never thought myself able of. It isn't just that I am able though - I've found that it is the way of life that most compliments me, that calls me to be my best self, that serves God the best way I can, that images God's great plan of redemption in my own life. I really can't put words on the freedom I feel now as a religious woman. There is almost a recklessness about myself that I never allowed myself to experience before because of my fear or insecurity or shortcomings. It allows me to experience God past the limitations I put on Him as well.

I hope you understand that I really am not trying to discourage you but I hear a lot of my own thought processes in what you've said and there is a much more fulfilling way to think about and live in the difficulties all of us have in our lives. My hope is that you can be as "joyful" in religious life as you possibly can be and not because you are pacified but because you are on fire with love and passion for the Gospel and for Jesus Christ and serving the Church. I hope that you can take some of this time to work through some of these things so that you can be freer to answer Him without parameters and with a whole heart. Please do not be offended... as I said, I have been in a similar situation so I am not judging... I just desire good for you.

Blessings and sorry for talking too much!



Edited because I don't know what went wrong but... it came out crazy, haha
[/quote]


SrMarie - that is such a good post and so true, especially that part you wrote "if there was more time for me to be alone, I would be able to..." -- that is the very reason I left Carmel the first time, and shows just how immature and ignorant I was about religious life. Looking back now, I was trying to get religious life to fit to me, to provide me with what I needed instead of me trying to fit into the community life and to give God what He was asking.

To paraphrase an old quote from President John Kennedy, "Ask not what your 'community' can do for you, but what you can do for your 'community'!" It has taken me a few years to figure this one out.

Maybe discerners need 'training wheels' as they embark on this journey because it certainly is different than every other endeavour we attempt. It is good to have experienced sisters like you here on phatmass. Please keep reminding us of what religious life is in reality so we don't get carried away with our idealised (and usually inadequate) perceptions of it. Even those of us who have been in (and out) of convents, can't bring the perspective that religious like you do, of someone who has persevered day in and day through the routine and the mundane and the sublime! Thank you.

Edited October 1, 2011 by nunsense

[Sarah147]

Sister Marie, thank you for your wonderful post.

[quote name='Sister Marie' timestamp='1317428055' post='2313124']
The problem is that God could be calling you to something completely different and you might be severely limiting yourself to what you think you are able to do. After all, we know we "can do all things in Him who strengthens" us.
....
You seem "enslaved" (pardon the dramatics) to the anxiety, education, and health problems you suffer from. You don't have to be though. [/quote]

It does seem that way at present, but I think things will be different in the future. I am working with my doctor on what to do about my issues and I'm going to go to a specialist that knows even better about helping the fatigue, anxiety, depression, etc. etc. In the future, coming from a place of stable health, I think I will be more "available" to apostolates. Maybe my attraction to the retreat work apostolate will broaden to other apostolates. Maybe I could work toward college. It's just at this time, these are limited. I don't know how things will be in the future, but I think it's good to know my current limitations.



[quote name='Sister Marie' timestamp='1317428055' post='2313124']
Any religious life you choose is going to require a superabundance of emotional, social, mental and physical activity. I do not say any of this to discourage you though but to encourage you to maybe look at discernment from a different angle at the same time. [/quote]

That's very important to think about and I'm very appreciative that you can share that coming from your experience as a Religious.


[quote name='Sister Marie' timestamp='1317428055' post='2313124']

...there is a much more fulfilling way to think about and live in the difficulties all of us have in our lives. My hope is that you can be as "joyful" in religious life as you possibly can be and not because you are pacified but because you are on fire with love and passion for the Gospel and for Jesus Christ and serving the Church.

I hope that you can take some of this time to work through some of these things so that you can be freer to answer Him without parameters and with a whole heart. [/quote]

Edited October 1, 2011 by JoyfulLife

[cmaD2006]

Sr. Marie I thoroughly enjoyed reading that post. I think you hit part of the discernment right dead on.

Nunsense also said it ... how many times to we try to make God fit the mould that we make? Sr. Marie said it well when you talked about having the freedom to make the choice. If anything is in the way, the we really aren't free, and that does need to be addressed in order to be able to make a free choice.

And we also forget ... God wants the entire package, with the warts -- illnesses, problems, etc. He will work with that -- if we give him a chance.

Maybe that's why I keep hitting the sanctity part -- it's what He wants, what He shows that needs to change, what He offers. Not what I want ... although of course in the process of transformation hopefully my wants and desires are transformed so that in my heart are His wants and desires.

I read my own post and I'm like ... geez I'm going to start sounding like a broken record if I keep saying "the goal is Heaven".

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='Sister Marie' timestamp='1317428055' post='2313124']
Dear Joyful,

One of the things I hear you doing in your discernment is trying to find a community that is able to accept you as you feel you are. While there is some need to match oneself to a community I'm worried that you are selling yourself and your future community short. One of the things that makes consecration in religious life so amazing is that all of us is consecrated - the sick, anxious, and difficult parts are all given over to God for Him to do as He pleases with them. That's why it is so important to be willing to allow those things to come into play however God chooses them to.

I think you are being very practical, as the world is practical, about thinking of an apostolate you think you could do, a charism that speaks to you, an amount of community living that suits you... The problem is that God could be calling you to something completely different and you might be severely limiting yourself to what you think you are able to do. After all, we know we "can do all things in Him who strengthens" us.

Trust me, I am not saying that you should pretend that you don't have some difficulties to think about - you do - I do - all of us do. It is really mature to be so aware of them and be able to responsibly disclose them and try to keep them in mind as you discern - but they are not your only factors in discernment - which I think you are aware of.

Your desire for religious life seems genuine and deep, but that isn't all there is to religious life, there are some very human parts that no matter where you are you will have difficulties. Community living, even in the most apostolic community, is an exercise of patience, sacrifice, hard work, annoyance, constant interaction and interruption, discomfort... (as well as all the good things I didn't list ) and would be difficult for someone without any of the difficulties you mentioned. The same is true for any apostolate. It brings with it huge responsibility when you are a religious whether you are in the classroom or answering the door - you are being Christ to the world and it is quite an overwhelming task.

Any religious life you choose is going to require a superabundance of emotional, social, mental and physical activity. I do not say any of this to discourage you though but to encourage you to maybe look at discernment from a different angle at the same time.

One of the things stressed in Canon Law about religious profession is that a woman be completely free in devoting oneself totally to God and the Church. While no one is holding your hand to the book to sign on the dotted line, it doesn't seem like you are a free person. You seem "enslaved" (pardon the dramatics) to the anxiety, education, and health problems you suffer from. You don't have to be though.

I used to think in the same way - "if there was more time for me to be alone, I would be able to..." "if only I didn't have to stand up in church for prayers, I wouldn't get so anxious..." "if only I could mop the floor and be left alone I could be a good sister." I wasn't free either because of the way I thought about the circumstances in my life that I couldn't change. You can't change your health, anxiety or education... but you can change the way you see yourself and think about it. It took me therapy to think in a way that opened me up beyond the limitations I put on myself. It didn't change any of the circumstances in my life but it allowed me to feel passion, take risks, and live in the radical freedom of total availability that I never thought myself able of. It isn't just that I am able though - I've found that it is the way of life that most compliments me, that calls me to be my best self, that serves God the best way I can, that images God's great plan of redemption in my own life. I really can't put words on the freedom I feel now as a religious woman. There is almost a recklessness about myself that I never allowed myself to experience before because of my fear or insecurity or shortcomings. It allows me to experience God past the limitations I put on Him as well.

I hope you understand that I really am not trying to discourage you but I hear a lot of my own thought processes in what you've said and there is a much more fulfilling way to think about and live in the difficulties all of us have in our lives. My hope is that you can be as "joyful" in religious life as you possibly can be and not because you are pacified but because you are on fire with love and passion for the Gospel and for Jesus Christ and serving the Church. I hope that you can take some of this time to work through some of these things so that you can be freer to answer Him without parameters and with a whole heart. Please do not be offended... as I said, I have been in a similar situation so I am not judging... I just desire good for you.

Blessings and sorry for talking too much!



Edited because I don't know what went wrong but... it came out crazy, haha
[/quote]


Wow! Thank you, Sr. Marie, for such an informative and enlightening post. Therapy has done wonders for me, as well. I am much more willing to take risks and I am not as nervous or distracted as I was. My therapist is, quite honestly, a God-send because she is the only one out of the 5 I've had that truly tries to get to the root of every problem I have experienced and turns it into a positive thing. I think on a much more positive level than I have ever done and my mom even remarks how much I have changed since I started seeing her 4 months ago. My discernment is boosted because of this. My therapist is Catholic and works for the diocese, so she has been a powerhouse trying to help me in that as well since I don't have a spiritual director yet.

I understand completely about the limitations you were placing on yourself. I have done that, too, which is unfortunate because I was shutting myself off from this beautiful order that I am currently discerning with. I had some issues while working as a Certified Nursing Assistant which gave me an aversion to ever working in healthcare again. I thought I'd never be able to enjoy it since my last employer was so difficult to please. I now understand, through the help of my therapist, that I shouldn't close myself off to it at all. I learned that I have a natural affinity to help others and I really admire social workers for what they do. But now, I'm even opening myself up to the possibility that God could call me to do something much different than I imagined if I enter (God-willing). The Sisters I am discerning with have a large medical apostolate and many of them are doctors. While that didn't seem attractive to me to begin with, I started researching the different kinds of doctors recently and I would consider it if the Superiors thought I would be suitable for that apostolate. I would even consider being a teacher if given the correct training even thought it is not something I would usually choose for myself.

Branching out in religious life is so necessary otherwise we close ourselves off to the lessons that God is trying to help us learn. When we become more open to hearing Him, we become more compassionate and much more apt to follow Christ.

Edited October 1, 2011 by MaterMisericordiae

[Sarah147]

[quote name='cmariadiaz' timestamp='1317429212' post='2313134']

And we also forget ... God wants the entire package, with the warts -- illnesses, problems, etc. He will work with that -- if we give him a chance.
[/quote]

That's a good way of looking at it. I just wish more Orders would see it that way. I've had so many rejections from Orders, I don't know exactly where I can even begin when I seriously look at Orders in some years.

Edited October 1, 2011 by JoyfulLife