News About My Discernment

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1316998776' post='2310150']
I don't know how I'll afford to support myself totally on my own someday if that's the case, as I don't know about college.
[/quote]

I hope you aren't considering religious life as a means of financial support? That is a very poor motivation to become a nun. Better you should start thinking about how to support yourself as an adult, and then if you do have a real vocation to religious life (and not consecrated virginity etc), you can follow up at that time. Many people don't go to college but still support themselves, but perhaps you should look into some kind of vocational programs?

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1316998776' post='2310150']
I don't know how I'll afford to support myself totally on my own someday if that's the case, as I don't know about college.
[/quote]

Have you thought about disability or trying some vocational programs like being a Certified Nursing Assistant like I was? There are many hands-on skills that don't require a lot of studying in textbooks.

One thing I might mention -- and please don't take this the wrong way -- is that this is not a good reason to enter religious life. Running away from life by entering the convent will be detrimental, not only to you but to the community. I may be way off base here, but I've just got to say this to be sure that this is not your main motivation in discernment. You might want to speak to your spiritual director about this and see what he/she says.

Edited September 26, 2011 by MaterMisericordiae

[Lilllabettt]

Joyful, I would NOT characterize the SCC's as "semi-contemplative." They do have a daily hour of adoration, but they are very active. They do not chant the Divine Office, for example - they recite it, and from what I understand they use the shorter Christian prayer. They do not usually keep silence at mealtime. Their prayers - office, rosary etc. may often enough be said in private should the apostolate demand it. They definitely live the reality that contemplation is the chief charge of religious life - but I would say they are more active than even some of the famous active-contemplative congregations ... ,a bit more "active" than the Sisters of St. Cecilia, for example.

[beatitude]

Dear Joyful,

I am also a naturally anxious person, and I have suffered from a clinically diagnosable anxiety disorder in the past. It was quite severe while I had it, and it had a very serious and negative effect on my life for several years.

The tendencies remain, but the difference is that I am now able to respond to any anxious thoughts lovingly and gently. The compulsion is to try and kill them off by planning out your life to the last detail, trying to make the 'perfect' plan, organising several back-up plans in case perfect isn't quite perfect enough, spending hours conjuring up what-if scenarios, trying to cram in multiple options to avoid or at least to delay having to make a choice...and so it goes on. I used to do this all the time. Concentrating obsessively on the future was my way of running from an anxious present.

I had to learn to be with myself in the present, exactly as I am now (and not as I would wish to be). This is what discernment is, fundamentally. It's not about getting to a certain destination in life - the convent, the seminary, a shop selling wedding rings. It's about growing in holiness and love for God. This takes time, and it requires you to embrace the present moment, with all its attendant worries. This is where the opportunities for growth are. I used to spend hours combing the Internet for suitable religious communities, rejecting that one because I wouldn't see my parents often enough (and how would I cope without them?) and ruling out this one because the nuns wake for Matins (and I need so much sleep...). Hours slipped by while I did all that, hours that were full of opportunities for meeting and serving and just being with God. Many of those opportunities frightened me, which is why I was so resolutely fixed on discerning my future instead of getting to grips with my present, but slowly I began to realise that if I tried to put my whole heart into each aspect of my day - no matter how anxious and unconfident I felt about it - God would give me the strength to do everything that was necessary. I felt that as I grew better at living in the present, my trust would deepen and I would discover the talents and strengths that I needed for the future.

Judging by your posts, I don't think you are at the stage where you should be contacting religious orders. You yourself seem to realise this when you say that you couldn't enter for several years even if you found a community able to accept you with your current difficulties. I think you should be very patient with yourself and give yourself the chance to grow.

This growth is not something any of us can rush. One of my biggest weaknesses is the tendency to think that I am wasting time and I need to get busy accomplishing things for God. Really, of course, he wants to accomplish things [i]in me[/i]. He will do this in his own perfect time. The process is important and beautiful, not just the result. We only see flowers when they bud and blossom; God sees the bulb when it sprouts the first fragile root, and this is beautiful too, even though it's hidden. We need to be confident in the beauty and necessity of our hidden lives, instead of looking anxiously for a sign of progress. One of the most inconvenient aspects of being pals with someone who is eternal is that He doesn't do things in a rush - we need to learn to adjust to God's time and God's way.

I think you will need some time to work through the anxieties that are hurting you, such as the worry about being unable to support yourself. I had that fear too, and it is a terrible one. I know how it freezes you inside, and how it can introduce all sorts of other worries (fear of the death of loved ones, for example). It is trying to get to me even as I type. I am studying for my Master's degree, and I don't have that much money for it. My parents have agreed to help me out financially, but they are retired and I feel very guilty about taking from their savings. So even though the course is intensive and my parents have reiterated again and again that they can afford to fund me, I decided to apply for a part-time job. I've got an interview. But to attend the interview I would have to miss a day of class, and the course is going at such a pace that it would be tough to catch up after missing just a little bit. And even if I got the job, how could I fit it in? There just aren't enough hours in the day. But I've been out of paid work for quite a while and my Master's is in a niche subject - if I don't keep my employment history looking fresh by taking the job, employers might not want to hire me after I graduate, and I won't have work, and I will have wasted my parents' savings for nothing, and how will I manage to support myself and them as they get older, and...and...and...

The anxious thoughts are still in there, whirring around. Maybe they always will be. But now I'm able to look at them gently and think, "OK, Beatitude, you're enrolled on this course. Your first responsibility is to do your best with it. God will look after you when it's over. Leave that to him. You get on with what you've got to do now - which is cleaning the kitchen, and also reading two chapters from that textbook." Then I say a little prayer, offering my anxiety and my present work to the Sacred Heart. A line from Rumer Godden's novel [i]In This House of Brede[/i] comes to mind. I can't remember it exactly, but it's something like, "Gather up your concerns, put them in that great Heart, and [i]go to sleep[/i]." I will be declining the job interview. The thought does make me anxious, but on a deeper level I know it's right. God will provide the peace I need to counter any panic.

Trust is something that you learn by doing, and patience is something that you have to practise. Let them deepen in you, and there may come a time when you [i]can[/i] manage contemplative religious life - or apostolic religious life, or whatever other way of life to which God is calling you. He will get you to where you need to go, and He will give you everything you need for the journey. Trust Him on that.

"O my God, fill my soul with holy joy, courage and strength to serve you. Enkindle your love in me and then walk with me along the next stretch of road before me. I do not see very far ahead, but when I have arrived where the horizon now closes down, a new prospect will open before me and I shall meet with peace. - Prayer of Saint Teresa Benedicta of the Cross (Edith Stein).

[organwerke]

Thanks beatitude for your beautiful post!
What you say is really true.
I too would like to tell Joyfull life that she has, in my opinion, still a long time before beeing compelled to decide if and where she wants to enter.
There are lots of Congregations that have a high limit age or does not have any.
So I think there is not a need to act rushly.
Having suffered from anxiety problems myself I think that with maturity usually things go better. It may not be true for all individuals, but, for example, having a job gives you the sense that you are finally doing something that makes you an indipendent person and in your case in my opinion this would be really good. Also, doing a job rather than worrying about how could you do a job, shows to you that while you thought you weren't able to do anything, you are in reality able to do very well.
I too for example was scared when I was younger at the idea of having a job. I couldn't see myself able to do anything.
Now that I've been working for several years instead, I have relaxed a lot seeing that all my fears were untrue for two reasons: the first one is that things aren't so difficult as I was used to think, and that second one is that I am not so bad as I used to think.
Thins is my advice for you: if you get a job now, in my opinion, you'll have many more chances to be able to enter a religious order in the future.

Edited September 27, 2011 by organwerke

[organwerke]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1316998962' post='2310153']

I hope you aren't considering religious life as a means of financial support? That is a very poor motivation to become a nun. Better you should start thinking about how to support yourself as an adult, and then if you do have a real vocation to religious life (and not consecrated virginity etc), you can follow up at that time. Many people don't go to college but still support themselves, but perhaps you should look into some kind of vocational programs?
[/quote]

Honestly I do not think this is Joyful's motivation to become a nun.
I simply think she's worrying about how she could find and do a job, if she sees she is not meant for religious life. I think the two things are different.
After all this is not an illecit worry, and also for this reason I too think that it would be better if Joyfullife tried to do a work before entering religious life (see my post above).

[cmaD2006]

Beatitude your post was spot on.

I think a lot of times we focus so much on the discernment that we forget the whole deal. The goal is heaven, right? What if the Lord is allowing the circumstances going on in your life right now to purposely draw you closer to Him, and you miss the opportunity to do so because "you want to be in a convent now but can't"?

I've done this once too many times to count .

What I am slowly learning is the living in today, and accepting what God offers now, in the daily routine, in the daily service to the Lover of my soul, in the sacrifice, in the yearning to be one day with Him.

I have decided to stop my own vocational discerment. Meaning that I am not going to actively look for a community. I've discerned and know what I need to do in the now for Him, and that suffices. I've also realized how much energy I've waisted in the "what if" and "that was not fair" and "why" that I have been fixated in. There is a lot that I can do for the Kingdom now, instead of sulking/mulling/rehashing the injustices and personal failures/errors/sins that I have lived through.

I mention my own discernment decisions because I think it will help others. There is a freedom when you get to this place. I feel spiritually great -- knowing that I *am* in His will for me at the moment. Could I still become a nun/sister? Sure. If God leads me to this. Will I get married? Right now I would say no, from my personal discernment and commitment that I have made through the years. Did I make a mistake in the past by entering two different communities (and almost entering a third)? No -- in fact I am convinced I did what I was supposed to.

Am I making a mistake by stopping the active discernment? No -- because He leads. I trust Him -- if He wants me as a nun/sister He will inevitably lead me to the convent. No need to push it any farther. By focusing on today, and being satisfied with what I have today, maybe just maybe I can emanate the joy of being a follower of Christ and lead other souls to Him.

[Feankie]

I believe this is a most informative, soulfilled, honest post about discernment (or the stopping of it) that I have read in a while. I commend your decision as you seem to be completely at peace with it. The Lord will let you know...in His time.....His plans for you. All you have to do is listen, be obedient, and not second guess Him. You have a lot of courage!

[brandelynmarie]

[quote name='cmariadiaz' timestamp='1317143334' post='2311054']
Beatitude your post was spot on.

I think a lot of times we focus so much on the discernment that we forget the whole deal. The goal is heaven, right? What if the Lord is allowing the circumstances going on in your life right now to purposely draw you closer to Him, and you miss the opportunity to do so because "you want to be in a convent now but can't"?

I've done this once too many times to count .

What I am slowly learning is the living in today, and accepting what God offers now, in the daily routine, in the daily service to the Lover of my soul, in the sacrifice, in the yearning to be one day with Him.

I have decided to stop my own vocational discerment. Meaning that I am not going to actively look for a community. I've discerned and know what I need to do in the now for Him, and that suffices. I've also realized how much energy I've waisted in the "what if" and "that was not fair" and "why" that I have been fixated in. There is a lot that I can do for the Kingdom now, instead of sulking/mulling/rehashing the injustices and personal failures/errors/sins that I have lived through.

I mention my own discernment decisions because I think it will help others. There is a freedom when you get to this place. I feel spiritually great -- knowing that I *am* in His will for me at the moment. Could I still become a nun/sister? Sure. If God leads me to this. Will I get married? Right now I would say no, from my personal discernment and commitment that I have made through the years. Did I make a mistake in the past by entering two different communities (and almost entering a third)? No -- in fact I am convinced I did what I was supposed to.

Am I making a mistake by stopping the active discernment? No -- because He leads. I trust Him -- if He wants me as a nun/sister He will inevitably lead me to the convent. No need to push it any farther. By focusing on today, and being satisfied with what I have today, maybe just maybe I can emanate the joy of being a follower of Christ and lead other souls to Him.
[/quote]


I'm out of props...but this post deserves it!

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='cmariadiaz' timestamp='1317143334' post='2311054']
Beatitude your post was spot on.

I think a lot of times we focus so much on the discernment that we forget the whole deal. The goal is heaven, right? What if the Lord is allowing the circumstances going on in your life right now to purposely draw you closer to Him, and you miss the opportunity to do so because "you want to be in a convent now but can't"?

I've done this once too many times to count .

What I am slowly learning is the living in today, and accepting what God offers now, in the daily routine, in the daily service to the Lover of my soul, in the sacrifice, in the yearning to be one day with Him.

I have decided to stop my own vocational discerment. Meaning that I am not going to actively look for a community. I've discerned and know what I need to do in the now for Him, and that suffices. I've also realized how much energy I've waisted in the "what if" and "that was not fair" and "why" that I have been fixated in. There is a lot that I can do for the Kingdom now, instead of sulking/mulling/rehashing the injustices and personal failures/errors/sins that I have lived through.

I mention my own discernment decisions because I think it will help others. There is a freedom when you get to this place. I feel spiritually great -- knowing that I *am* in His will for me at the moment. Could I still become a nun/sister? Sure. If God leads me to this. Will I get married? Right now I would say no, from my personal discernment and commitment that I have made through the years. Did I make a mistake in the past by entering two different communities (and almost entering a third)? No -- in fact I am convinced I did what I was supposed to.

Am I making a mistake by stopping the active discernment? No -- because He leads. I trust Him -- if He wants me as a nun/sister He will inevitably lead me to the convent. No need to push it any farther. By focusing on today, and being satisfied with what I have today, maybe just maybe I can emanate the joy of being a follower of Christ and lead other souls to Him.
[/quote]


Beautiful post carmen.... I have been in this position in my own mind many times I occasionally wander back into it as well, that's why I need to have a spiritual director, because I don't trust myself half the time and doubt my own decisions! My own SD told me similar things about living here and now while I discern - not waiting for the convent, but living life as God has given it to me right now so what you say makes sense.

It sounds as if you have reached a really good place in yourself and I am very happy for you.

[cmaD2006]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1317169826' post='2311256']
I occasionally wander back into it as well, that's why I need to have a spiritual director, because I don't trust myself half the time and doubt my own decisions! My own SD told me similar things about living here and now while I discern - not waiting for the convent, but living life as God has given it to me right now so what you say makes sense.
[/quote]

It took the abrupt change in spiritual directors to get to this point ... and I am so thankful now for the change that I *know* now that it was for my own good.

One of the biggest problems I've had is to live in the moment while discerning. It is close to impossible, I think (at least for me). Why? Because of that yearning to be in the convent. To be recognized as His spouse (for it is at the final profession that the Church recognizes the vocation and confirms it). To share in a common life with others with a similar goal.

I *think* I've surrendered it. Because I am satisfied with what I can see God is giving me today. I'm still His -- and I will forever be His (we all belong to Him anyway). My heart is still His alone. My ministry is for Him. When I work, the way I work should be a testament to His action in me. When I am with my immediate family and with friends my life should be a witness to His grace and glory and love. When I am alone, I am with Him (whether or not I acknowledge it).

In summary -- I may not have the public acknowledgement that I am His spouse, but my life should be a joyful witness to that being the case. I choose to live a life of service for Him -- not because I have to, or by default, or by force, but by choice. By conscienciously choosing this -- instead of focusing on the what-ifs and the but-I-wants and the why's, I can allow Him to move me forward in His will and not in mine.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='cmariadiaz' timestamp='1317176033' post='2311349']

It took the abrupt change in spiritual directors to get to this point ... and I am so thankful now for the change that I *know* now that it was for my own good.

One of the biggest problems I've had is to live in the moment while discerning. It is close to impossible, I think (at least for me). Why? Because of that yearning to be in the convent. To be recognized as His spouse (for it is at the final profession that the Church recognizes the vocation and confirms it). To share in a common life with others with a similar goal.

I *think* I've surrendered it. Because I am satisfied with what I can see God is giving me today. I'm still His -- and I will forever be His (we all belong to Him anyway). My heart is still His alone. My ministry is for Him. When I work, the way I work should be a testament to His action in me. When I am with my immediate family and with friends my life should be a witness to His grace and glory and love. When I am alone, I am with Him (whether or not I acknowledge it).

In summary -- I may not have the public acknowledgement that I am His spouse, but my life should be a joyful witness to that being the case. I choose to live a life of service for Him -- not because I have to, or by default, or by force, but by choice. By conscienciously choosing this -- instead of focusing on the what-ifs and the but-I-wants and the why's, I can allow Him to move me forward in His will and not in mine.
[/quote]


That is beautiful carmen, thank you so much for sharing.

[Sarah147]

[quote name='MaterMisericordiae' timestamp='1316999220' post='2310156']

Have you thought about disability or trying some vocational programs like being a Certified Nursing Assistant like I was? There are many hands-on skills that don't require a lot of studying in textbooks.

One thing I might mention -- and please don't take this the wrong way -- is that this is not a good reason to enter religious life. Running away from life by entering the convent will be detrimental, not only to you but to the community. I may be way off base here, but I've just got to say this to be sure that this is not your main motivation in discernment. You might want to speak to your spiritual director about this and see what he/she says.
[/quote]

I don't feel that my motivation for Religious Life is for financial support. I've long been attracted to the life and have been visiting and discerning for quite some time. I already sort of do have independence; I live in an apartment and I have a small job, but I also receive support from friends and relatives, as I don't make enough. I'm also limited in the income I can receive because of the state insurance I am on for expensive medicines; it covers all the copays and most doctor office visits, etc. If I end up discerning that I'm not called, it just wouldn't work in an Order; they'd discern it, too, and I'd be miserable and could have a relapse or something.

I'm just noticing along the way that the pressure and advancement of college, and the requirements needed for a full-time job plus the pressure and stress, are issues for me and I question really what I could do if that's the way I'm called to live. At present, I know college is too much, and I can tell from some of the volunteer work I do that full-time work might be a little too much at present as far as my mental health goes and my fatigue issue. I could not do full-time work at present either due to my insurance and other things I'm involved with.

Edited September 30, 2011 by JoyfulLife

[Sarah147]

[quote name='beatitude' timestamp='1317075833' post='2310626']

Trust is something that you learn by doing, and patience is something that you have to practise. Let them deepen in you, and there may come a time when you [i]can[/i] manage contemplative religious life - or apostolic religious life, or whatever other way of life to which God is calling you. He will get you to where you need to go, and He will give you everything you need for the journey. Trust Him on that.
[/quote]

What a beautiful post!

I didn't notice is so much before until I tried college and it got really bad. I can see I've had some mild anxiety over a lot of things, even though I work on counselling and spiritual direction. I think if I can find a good medicine without too much sedation, it may help me relax about my future and discernment. And, just maybe after some years of having the depression and anxiety managed, I might be more fit to try living in an Order, just like Mater!

Edited September 30, 2011 by JoyfulLife

[Sarah147]

I've got to finish up some contacting with the Orders that have been writing me, but I will end telling them that I'm not ready to enter anywhere for some years.

I'm not sure how to treat my time on phatmass for these years, and how to think of religious life. It just feels like a misuse of these years to not be thinking about what to do with my future -- knowing if it's the religious life that's open to me, or if to look into what else God may be asking.