Female Altar Servers And Vocations

[Byzantine]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1314564620' post='2296485']

Ha! I find that utterly ridiculous.
[/quote]

Being a teenage male, I can see their point only too easily.

[Basilisa Marie]

Maybe, but if a priest's sinfulness doesn't affect the validity of a mass, I doubt someone as lowly as an altar server would have an affect. I'm of the opinion that someone's sexual purity should have no more influence on whether or not they can minister at mass than any other sin, or habit of sin.

[Aloysius]

from a liturgical perspective, it's absolutely a mistake to have female altar servers. everyone here is looking at this from a practical perspective, almost a marketing perspective: "what will attract more vocations?" et cetera. while that is an interesting subject, and I do think having altar boys act as apprenticeships, as it were, do help foster vocations, that is not the only thing to consider.

the liturgy ought to demonstrate significantly the difference between the ministerial priesthood of the clergy and the common priesthood of all the faithful. they are two distinctly different things, with completely different roles, and the distinction made in the liturgy is hugely important to the atmosphere of worship. all care should be made not to blur this line.

an altar boy is a substitute for a cleric. the distinction between the clergy and the laity is properly expressed when the cleric is substituted with someone who could become such a cleric. altar service is, in effect, a lay person pinch hitting for a cleric. when someone pinch hits that is not eligible to be a batter, when someone performs the act of a cleric who is never going to be a cleric, it either gives the impression that this person may be eligible to be a cleric one day, or it gives the impression that lay people should have the same roles as clerics do. neither impression is acceptable, and they both detract from the atmosphere of the liturgy.

a liturgical crisis ensues most especially when this line is blurred between clergy and laity, because the liturgy becomes something which is "in the hands of" the laity. rather than an actively receptive role that the laity should have in the liturgy, more and more the laity see the liturgy as something that they do, a show they put on. now, that's a whole bigger fish to fry with causes and effects far outside the smaller issue of altar service, but it's all connected. the point is that the liturgy is more whole, consistent, and aesthetically beautiful when the line is not blurred; and having altar girls does indeed blur that line.

this is, of course, why up until 1994 John Paul II held out against the practice; and why he never allowed female altar servers in his own diocese (of Rome)--it is liturgically incorrect.

I am sure many girls have had good experiences, and it's possible that their vocations to the convent were fostered during their time of service on the altar. however, it's not about what you get out of it, that's part of the false notion of liturgy that has so damaged the proper spirit of liturgical worship. there should definitely be other things done to emphasize the worth of a religious vocation and foster them in young girls, but this is not one of them EVEN IF it was effective at doing that (I don't know if it is or not, seems to have been in the OP's case of course), because it breaks the consistency and beauty of the liturgy.

[penguin31]

I'll gladly settle for altar servers who genuinely *want* to be there.Male? Female? Don't care. I've sat through one too many masses where you could just TELL the servers really didn't want to be there.

[LinaSt.Cecilia2772]

I am a female altar server at my parish and have been for almost 8 years now. I enjoy what i do on the altar, i enjoy setting an example for other young men and women to serve, but most of all i enjoy serving God and the church. It is an amazing ministry that alot of times people dont understand how it affects different vocational stories. For me, I have never been called to be a priest, but i have thought about Religous life because of altar serving. I do wear the cassock and surplice (we dont have albs), but to be honest i don't see how what we have to dress in affects the actual ministry in any way. At my parish the girls do out number the boys in serving, but by very little. For me, gender has no effect what so ever on how the ministry is performed and how servers do it wholeheartedly. I think everyone who has a calling to serve should serve because they have recieved that call from God alone. I recieved that call when i was nine years old, and i have recieved other calls from God to become an EMHC, a youth leader in my parish youth ministry, and a council member of my parish pastoral council. All of that came from the call to serve, and i think it would hinder other women's abilities to hear the calls God has for them if there were no female altar servers.

[arfink]

At my parish we have always had male altar servers. So this issue didn't come up much. But when I was in seminary I did volunteer work at a parish where I was expected to train some altar servers. They had a few boys and alot of girls, and the guys who were there seemed coerced, while the girls seemed genuinely interested. I guess it depends on the age group we're talking about, but boys under a certain age will just react that way to an activity a girl seems to enjoy. Or so it would seem to me.

Also, while I don't feel like taking a stance against female altar servers I can say that every single one of our parish's young seminarians (the one guy over 40 was the only exception) in the past 8 years has been an altar server here, and more and more of our servers are willing to visit seminaries or are joining them.

[arfink]

[quote name='LaPetiteSoeur' timestamp='1314379575' post='2295288']
In parish offices, I have never come across a male secretary, or housekeeper or cook.
[/quote]

I have applied for secretarial work at a load of parishes, so that I could have a job that kinda sorta used the stuff I learned in the seminary, but even there I have had no luck. I dunno what it is about guys and working in the church, but it seems like we're only allowed if we wear collars. Catholic schools also don't seem to like male teachers that much either, no luck there for me.

I kid of course, but if you don't think about it too hard it might seem that way.

[Aloysius]

[quote name='LinaSt.Cecilia2772' timestamp='1314571464' post='2296564']
I am a female altar server at my parish and have been for almost 8 years now. I enjoy what i do on the altar, i enjoy setting an example for other young men and women to serve, but most of all i enjoy serving God and the church. It is an amazing ministry that alot of times people dont understand how it affects different vocational stories. For me, I have never been called to be a priest, but i have thought about Religous life because of altar serving. I do wear the cassock and surplice (we dont have albs), but to be honest i don't see how what we have to dress in affects the actual ministry in any way. At my parish the girls do out number the boys in serving, but by very little. For me, gender has no effect what so ever on how the ministry is performed and how servers do it wholeheartedly. I think everyone who has a calling to serve should serve because they have recieved that call from God alone. I recieved that call when i was nine years old, and i have recieved other calls from God to become an EMHC, a youth leader in my parish youth ministry, and a council member of my parish pastoral council. All of that came from the call to serve, and i think it would hinder other women's abilities to hear the calls God has for them if there were no female altar servers.
[/quote]
It shouldn't be about that, IMO. it should be about having a liturgy that is transcendent, worshipping God. the job of an altar server is the job of a cleric--an acolyte, to be precise, or perhaps a subdeacon. the clerics on the altar stand for something symbolically to us; while it is the priest himself who is the alter christus, it is all of the clerics on the altar who are representing Christ through the ministerial priesthood. the tradition of altar boys is a tradition of replacing clerics with laymen who themselves can stand in for the symbol, who themselves might even one day be clerics too. girls cannot stand in for the symbol, because the symbol is the masculine ministerial priesthood of Christ.

when there is an altar girl instead of an altar boy, you have taken the entire symbol away from the liturgy. it has been cut out of the intricately beautiful painting that is the liturgy. sure, a girl might benefit from service at the alter; sure, a boy might benefit from service at the altar. but it's not about the girl. and it's not about the boy. it's about the liturgy, the perfect worship of the Father through Christ's sacrifice on the altar. that is the paramount concern. the liturgy needs to be out of our (the lay people's) hands, transcendent and sublime. and part of that, a small part but still important, is the role of the ministerial priesthood and its extensions.

the practice of altar girls diminishes the symbolic significance of the ministerial priesthood within the liturgy IMO.

Edited August 29, 2011 by Aloysius

[Aloysius]

I'd like to reiterate that I'm not calling into question anyone's personal experiences. I think it's wrong for girls to serve at the altar, sure, but those who do so while the Church allows for it are fine, and I'm sure have many good experiences.

[Noel's angel]

Why do people always ignore the good posts

[Papist]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Here are some thoughts to consider.[/font]


[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Boys serve at the altar partly as a way to introduce youths to the priesthood, which is for males only. Currently, the vast majority of altar servers do not become priests. However, this trend can and should change. Boys should be encouraged to consider the priesthood from an early age. And they should be encouraged to become altar servers as a good first introduction to the priesthood. But if girls serve along side boys, the role of altar server will not be viewed by the children or their parents as an introduction to the role of a priest. One might say that the role of altar girl can be an introduction for the girls to the religious life, so that boys would see serving at the altar as a precursor to the role of a priest, and girls would see it as a precursor to the role of a religious sister. This view is incorrect. It is not the role of women religious to serve at the altar. Nuns are called to the consecrated life for prayer, self-sacrifice, and works of mercy. Nuns are not called to take those roles which are most fitting only for the ordained, but which do not absolutely require ordination. There are certain roles in the Church which require ordination, and other roles which, while not absolutely requiring ordination, are most fitting only for the ordained.[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The altar servers assist a male-only priesthood. As a group, even though most do not become priests, the altar boys are a foreshadowing and a reflection of the male-only priesthood. By example, the altar boys teach that only men can and should be priests and Bishops. People may want to view the role of altar server as separate from the priesthood, since altar servers are not ordained. But those who serve at the altar serve along side ordained priests, assisting them closely throughout the holy Mass. The reduction of male-only roles to nothing other than those roles absolutely requiring ordination erodes the teaching of the Church on the male-only priesthood. Following this erroneous path would lead to a reduction in the role of the priest to nothing other than a dispenser of Sacraments. Such is not the will of God.[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]God intends men and women to have different roles in the Church, the family, and society. This teaching of Tradition and Scripture is not restricted, within the Church, only to the role of priests and Bishops, but to many other roles as well. In the family, the husband is the head of the family, not the wife; nor does the family have two heads, husband and wife. In society, it is not the will of God to have all roles filled by both men and women without regard to gender. Some differences in roles makes for a wise and orderly society. When girls serve along side boys at the altar, the teaching of the Church that men and women are intended by God to have different roles is contradicted by example. Children learn the incorrect idea that boys and girls, men and women, can and should have the same roles in everything. When only boys serve, children learn the correct teaching that some roles are for males only. The choice of males only as altar servers wisely reflects the wider teaching that not all roles are for persons of either gender. The use of both girls and boys at the altar contradicts by example this understanding of different roles based on gender.[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The Church must not be overly influenced by sinful secular society. The Church has teachings which come from Divine Revelation. But secular society also has its teachings, some of which are irreconcilable with Church teaching. One such contrary teaching is the idea that there should be no distinctions, no differences in roles, based on gender. The widespread and very recent innovation of having altar girls is not a reflection of the teachings of Tradition and Scripture, but is a reflection of the teachings of secular society. Although the Church does not absolutely forbid girls to serve at the altar, the choice of boys only as altar servers better reflects the teachings and traditions of the Church. This wise choice also undermines the false teaching of secular society that male and females must have the same roles in everything.[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]There is a tendency in the parishes and dioceses today to over-hire women. Perhaps partly because women cannot be ordained, there is a tendency to permit or encourage women to be in the majority in every non-ordained role. This is seen in many parishes where most extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion are female, where most lectors are female, where most parish council members are female, etc. It is also seen in parishes where the proportion and number of altar girls increases and that of boys decreases. The end result of this tendency is for women to dominate every role other than that of ordained deacons, priests, and Bishops. There is no teaching in Tradition or Scripture which supports this tendency; it is not the work of the Holy Spirit. This over use of women in various non-ordained roles presents religious service as if it were primarily the domain of females. The result is that males tend not to see religion as a possible vocation, despite the fact that only men are priests. The use of altar girls further extends the roles of females in religion, also further undermining the view that men are called by God to be leaders of the Church.[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The Church has the authority to forbid females to serve at the altar and to choose to have only males as servers. For such has been the traditional practice of the Church. But the Church does not have the authority to forbid males to serve at the altar, and to have only female altar servers. Those who serve at the altar serve a male-only priesthood. Thus male altar servers are the norm, and female altar servers are the exception. If every diocese and parish were to permit female altar servers, then this practice would teach by example that female altar servers are a norm, not an exception. How can a practice be understood as an exception if it is found in every diocese and parish without exception? Also, such a practice of permitting female altar servers, if it were found in every diocese, would teach by example that it is wrong to have only male altar servers. The exception would then become the rule, and the norm would become prohibited. Such a disorder contradicts the tradition of the Church from the beginning and is therefore contrary to the will of God.[/font]
[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]_[/font]

[havok579257]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1314618707' post='2296839']
[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Here are some thoughts to consider.[/font]


[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Boys serve at the altar partly as a way to introduce youths to the priesthood, which is for males only. Currently, the vast majority of altar servers do not become priests. However, this trend can and should change. Boys should be encouraged to consider the priesthood from an early age. And they should be encouraged to become altar servers as a good first introduction to the priesthood. But if girls serve along side boys, the role of altar server will not be viewed by the children or their parents as an introduction to the role of a priest. One might say that the role of altar girl can be an introduction for the girls to the religious life, so that boys would see serving at the altar as a precursor to the role of a priest, and girls would see it as a precursor to the role of a religious sister. This view is incorrect. It is not the role of women religious to serve at the altar. Nuns are called to the consecrated life for prayer, self-sacrifice, and works of mercy. Nuns are not called to take those roles which are most fitting only for the ordained, but which do not absolutely require ordination. There are certain roles in the Church which require ordination, and other roles which, while not absolutely requiring ordination, are most fitting only for the ordained.[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The altar servers assist a male-only priesthood. As a group, even though most do not become priests, the altar boys are a foreshadowing and a reflection of the male-only priesthood. By example, the altar boys teach that only men can and should be priests and Bishops. People may want to view the role of altar server as separate from the priesthood, since altar servers are not ordained. But those who serve at the altar serve along side ordained priests, assisting them closely throughout the holy Mass. The reduction of male-only roles to nothing other than those roles absolutely requiring ordination erodes the teaching of the Church on the male-only priesthood. Following this erroneous path would lead to a reduction in the role of the priest to nothing other than a dispenser of Sacraments. Such is not the will of God.[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]God intends men and women to have different roles in the Church, the family, and society. This teaching of Tradition and Scripture is not restricted, within the Church, only to the role of priests and Bishops, but to many other roles as well. In the family, the husband is the head of the family, not the wife; nor does the family have two heads, husband and wife. In society, it is not the will of God to have all roles filled by both men and women without regard to gender. Some differences in roles makes for a wise and orderly society. When girls serve along side boys at the altar, the teaching of the Church that men and women are intended by God to have different roles is contradicted by example. Children learn the incorrect idea that boys and girls, men and women, can and should have the same roles in everything. When only boys serve, children learn the correct teaching that some roles are for males only. The choice of males only as altar servers wisely reflects the wider teaching that not all roles are for persons of either gender. The use of both girls and boys at the altar contradicts by example this understanding of different roles based on gender.[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The Church must not be overly influenced by sinful secular society. The Church has teachings which come from Divine Revelation. But secular society also has its teachings, some of which are irreconcilable with Church teaching. One such contrary teaching is the idea that there should be no distinctions, no differences in roles, based on gender. The widespread and very recent innovation of having altar girls is not a reflection of the teachings of Tradition and Scripture, but is a reflection of the teachings of secular society. Although the Church does not absolutely forbid girls to serve at the altar, the choice of boys only as altar servers better reflects the teachings and traditions of the Church. This wise choice also undermines the false teaching of secular society that male and females must have the same roles in everything.[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]There is a tendency in the parishes and dioceses today to over-hire women. Perhaps partly because women cannot be ordained, there is a tendency to permit or encourage women to be in the majority in every non-ordained role. This is seen in many parishes where most extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion are female, where most lectors are female, where most parish council members are female, etc. It is also seen in parishes where the proportion and number of altar girls increases and that of boys decreases. The end result of this tendency is for women to dominate every role other than that of ordained deacons, priests, and Bishops. There is no teaching in Tradition or Scripture which supports this tendency; it is not the work of the Holy Spirit. This over use of women in various non-ordained roles presents religious service as if it were primarily the domain of females. The result is that males tend not to see religion as a possible vocation, despite the fact that only men are priests. The use of altar girls further extends the roles of females in religion, also further undermining the view that men are called by God to be leaders of the Church.[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The Church has the authority to forbid females to serve at the altar and to choose to have only males as servers. For such has been the traditional practice of the Church. But the Church does not have the authority to forbid males to serve at the altar, and to have only female altar servers. Those who serve at the altar serve a male-only priesthood. Thus male altar servers are the norm, and female altar servers are the exception. If every diocese and parish were to permit female altar servers, then this practice would teach by example that female altar servers are a norm, not an exception. How can a practice be understood as an exception if it is found in every diocese and parish without exception? Also, such a practice of permitting female altar servers, if it were found in every diocese, would teach by example that it is wrong to have only male altar servers. The exception would then become the rule, and the norm would become prohibited. Such a disorder contradicts the tradition of the Church from the beginning and is therefore contrary to the will of God.[/font]
[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]_[/font]
[/quote]


except if there are not enough boys becoming alter servers, then what is the church to do? i understand that people should try to get boys inovlved, but trying and actually doing are two different things. i guess until the vatican changes the rules, i am fine with whatever they choose. they know a lot more than little old me.

[Papist]

[quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1314626818' post='2296873']


except if there are not enough boys becoming alter servers, then what is the church to do? i understand that people should try to get boys inovlved, but trying and actually doing are two different things. i guess until the vatican changes the rules, i am fine with whatever they choose. they know a lot more than little old me.
[/quote]
How did the Church survive boy only for the hundreds of years prior to opening up to girls. I think like all things, if a parish has a shortage they get proactive in recruiting, far above a bland blurb in the bulletin.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1314635177' post='2296905']
How did the Church survive boy only for the hundreds of years prior to opening up to girls. I think like all things, if a parish has a shortage they get proactive in recruiting, far above a bland blurb in the bulletin.
[/quote]

i would say today there is a bigger disconnect from the world today towards the church than ever before. also like i said, if the vatican approves girls as alter servers, who am i to say i know better?

Edited August 29, 2011 by havok579257

[LaPetiteSoeur]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1314618707' post='2296839']
[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Here are some thoughts to consider.[/font]


[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Boys serve at the altar partly as a way to introduce youths to the priesthood, which is for males only. Currently, the vast majority of altar servers do not become priests. However, this trend can and should change. Boys should be encouraged to consider the priesthood from an early age. And they should be encouraged to become altar servers as a good first introduction to the priesthood. But if girls serve along side boys, the role of altar server will not be viewed by the children or their parents as an introduction to the role of a priest. One might say that the role of altar girl can be an introduction for the girls to the religious life, so that boys would see serving at the altar as a precursor to the role of a priest, and girls would see it as a precursor to the role of a religious sister. This view is incorrect. It is not the role of women religious to serve at the altar. Nuns are called to the consecrated life for prayer, self-sacrifice, and works of mercy. Nuns are not called to take those roles which are most fitting only for the ordained, but which do not absolutely require ordination. There are certain roles in the Church which require ordination, and other roles which, while not absolutely requiring ordination, are most fitting only for the ordained.[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The altar servers assist a male-only priesthood. As a group, even though most do not become priests, the altar boys are a foreshadowing and a reflection of the male-only priesthood. By example, the altar boys teach that only men can and should be priests and Bishops. People may want to view the role of altar server as separate from the priesthood, since altar servers are not ordained. But those who serve at the altar serve along side ordained priests, assisting them closely throughout the holy Mass. The reduction of male-only roles to nothing other than those roles absolutely requiring ordination erodes the teaching of the Church on the male-only priesthood. Following this erroneous path would lead to a reduction in the role of the priest to nothing other than a dispenser of Sacraments. Such is not the will of God.[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]God intends men and women to have different roles in the Church, the family, and society. This teaching of Tradition and Scripture is not restricted, within the Church, only to the role of priests and Bishops, but to many other roles as well. In the family, the husband is the head of the family, not the wife; nor does the family have two heads, husband and wife. In society, it is not the will of God to have all roles filled by both men and women without regard to gender. Some differences in roles makes for a wise and orderly society. When girls serve along side boys at the altar, the teaching of the Church that men and women are intended by God to have different roles is contradicted by example. Children learn the incorrect idea that boys and girls, men and women, can and should have the same roles in everything. When only boys serve, children learn the correct teaching that some roles are for males only. The choice of males only as altar servers wisely reflects the wider teaching that not all roles are for persons of either gender. The use of both girls and boys at the altar contradicts by example this understanding of different roles based on gender.[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The Church must not be overly influenced by sinful secular society. The Church has teachings which come from Divine Revelation. But secular society also has its teachings, some of which are irreconcilable with Church teaching. One such contrary teaching is the idea that there should be no distinctions, no differences in roles, based on gender. The widespread and very recent innovation of having altar girls is not a reflection of the teachings of Tradition and Scripture, but is a reflection of the teachings of secular society. Although the Church does not absolutely forbid girls to serve at the altar, the choice of boys only as altar servers better reflects the teachings and traditions of the Church. This wise choice also undermines the false teaching of secular society that male and females must have the same roles in everything.[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]There is a tendency in the parishes and dioceses today to over-hire women. Perhaps partly because women cannot be ordained, there is a tendency to permit or encourage women to be in the majority in every non-ordained role. This is seen in many parishes where most extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion are female, where most lectors are female, where most parish council members are female, etc. It is also seen in parishes where the proportion and number of altar girls increases and that of boys decreases. The end result of this tendency is for women to dominate every role other than that of ordained deacons, priests, and Bishops. There is no teaching in Tradition or Scripture which supports this tendency; it is not the work of the Holy Spirit. This over use of women in various non-ordained roles presents religious service as if it were primarily the domain of females. The result is that males tend not to see religion as a possible vocation, despite the fact that only men are priests. The use of altar girls further extends the roles of females in religion, also further undermining the view that men are called by God to be leaders of the Church.[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The Church has the authority to forbid females to serve at the altar and to choose to have only males as servers. For such has been the traditional practice of the Church. But the Church does not have the authority to forbid males to serve at the altar, and to have only female altar servers. Those who serve at the altar serve a male-only priesthood. Thus male altar servers are the norm, and female altar servers are the exception. If every diocese and parish were to permit female altar servers, then this practice would teach by example that female altar servers are a norm, not an exception. How can a practice be understood as an exception if it is found in every diocese and parish without exception? Also, such a practice of permitting female altar servers, if it were found in every diocese, would teach by example that it is wrong to have only male altar servers. The exception would then become the rule, and the norm would become prohibited. Such a disorder contradicts the tradition of the Church from the beginning and is therefore contrary to the will of God.[/font]
[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]_[/font]
[/quote]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1314618707' post='2296839']
[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Here are some thoughts to consider.[/font]


[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Boys serve at the altar partly as a way to introduce youths to the priesthood, which is for males only. Currently, the vast majority of altar servers do not become priests. However, this trend can and should change. Boys should be encouraged to consider the priesthood from an early age. And they should be encouraged to become altar servers as a good first introduction to the priesthood. But if girls serve along side boys, the role of altar server will not be viewed by the children or their parents as an introduction to the role of a priest. One might say that the role of altar girl can be an introduction for the girls to the religious life, so that boys would see serving at the altar as a precursor to the role of a priest, and girls would see it as a precursor to the role of a religious sister. This view is incorrect. It is not the role of women religious to serve at the altar. Nuns are called to the consecrated life for prayer, self-sacrifice, and works of mercy. Nuns are not called to take those roles which are most fitting only for the ordained, but which do not absolutely require ordination. There are certain roles in the Church which require ordination, and other roles which, while not absolutely requiring ordination, are most fitting only for the ordained.[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The altar servers assist a male-only priesthood. As a group, even though most do not become priests, the altar boys are a foreshadowing and a reflection of the male-only priesthood. By example, the altar boys teach that only men can and should be priests and Bishops. People may want to view the role of altar server as separate from the priesthood, since altar servers are not ordained. But those who serve at the altar serve along side ordained priests, assisting them closely throughout the holy Mass. The reduction of male-only roles to nothing other than those roles absolutely requiring ordination erodes the teaching of the Church on the male-only priesthood. Following this erroneous path would lead to a reduction in the role of the priest to nothing other than a dispenser of Sacraments. Such is not the will of God.[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]God intends men and women to have different roles in the Church, the family, and society. This teaching of Tradition and Scripture is not restricted, within the Church, only to the role of priests and Bishops, but to many other roles as well. In the family, the husband is the head of the family, not the wife; nor does the family have two heads, husband and wife. In society, it is not the will of God to have all roles filled by both men and women without regard to gender. Some differences in roles makes for a wise and orderly society. When girls serve along side boys at the altar, the teaching of the Church that men and women are intended by God to have different roles is contradicted by example. Children learn the incorrect idea that boys and girls, men and women, can and should have the same roles in everything. When only boys serve, children learn the correct teaching that some roles are for males only. The choice of males only as altar servers wisely reflects the wider teaching that not all roles are for persons of either gender. The use of both girls and boys at the altar contradicts by example this understanding of different roles based on gender.[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The Church must not be overly influenced by sinful secular society. The Church has teachings which come from Divine Revelation. But secular society also has its teachings, some of which are irreconcilable with Church teaching. One such contrary teaching is the idea that there should be no distinctions, no differences in roles, based on gender. The widespread and very recent innovation of having altar girls is not a reflection of the teachings of Tradition and Scripture, but is a reflection of the teachings of secular society. Although the Church does not absolutely forbid girls to serve at the altar, the choice of boys only as altar servers better reflects the teachings and traditions of the Church. This wise choice also undermines the false teaching of secular society that male and females must have the same roles in everything.[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]There is a tendency in the parishes and dioceses today to over-hire women. Perhaps partly because women cannot be ordained, there is a tendency to permit or encourage women to be in the majority in every non-ordained role. This is seen in many parishes where most extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion are female, where most lectors are female, where most parish council members are female, etc. It is also seen in parishes where the proportion and number of altar girls increases and that of boys decreases. The end result of this tendency is for women to dominate every role other than that of ordained deacons, priests, and Bishops. There is no teaching in Tradition or Scripture which supports this tendency; it is not the work of the Holy Spirit. This over use of women in various non-ordained roles presents religious service as if it were primarily the domain of females. The result is that males tend not to see religion as a possible vocation, despite the fact that only men are priests. The use of altar girls further extends the roles of females in religion, also further undermining the view that men are called by God to be leaders of the Church.[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]The Church has the authority to forbid females to serve at the altar and to choose to have only males as servers. For such has been the traditional practice of the Church. But the Church does not have the authority to forbid males to serve at the altar, and to have only female altar servers. Those who serve at the altar serve a male-only priesthood. Thus male altar servers are the norm, and female altar servers are the exception. If every diocese and parish were to permit female altar servers, then this practice would teach by example that female altar servers are a norm, not an exception. How can a practice be understood as an exception if it is found in every diocese and parish without exception? Also, such a practice of permitting female altar servers, if it were found in every diocese, would teach by example that it is wrong to have only male altar servers. The exception would then become the rule, and the norm would become prohibited. Such a disorder contradicts the tradition of the Church from the beginning and is therefore contrary to the will of God.[/font]
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I am considering....

Ok. Re: the over hiring of women.
When there is a job opening in a parish, I have NEVER seen a guy submit his resume. Not all parishes are so women heavy in everything. My home parish's council is half and half. The office workers are, yes, mostly women, but two are secretaries, one is in charge of a non profit that helps in the neighborhood, etc. There are two guys who do custodial and fix it up work. We have equal men and women in Eucharistic ministering, lectoring, etc. We don't have guys that volunteer to teach religious ed. We have two, I think, out of 12 teachers. There are very few boys of altar serving age PERIOD in my parish. There aren't a lot of kids, and there are a ton of girls. I think the over hiring of women has more to do with who puts in resumes and who volunteers. Men tend not to. At least in the state I used to live in.

I don't think that putting girls on the altar tells them they should be priests. I think it tells them "this is a way to serve."

I am wondering though. What would you propose young girls to do instead of altar serving? There aren't too many programs. If the church does go back to all male, they seriously should have some female ministry in place. Think about it. The only real "womens" groups are the Altar Ladies...and that's all. The guys? Well, they've got the KofC, all the vocation resources in the world--guys, you try being a girl discerning religious life. It's terribly hard as all the resources out there are mostly for guys discerning the priesthood.

For women, who as my pastor said "vastly outnumber the men when I'm on the altar," there seems to be a more widely held belief that they should just attend mass. They'll always be there, they'll always care for their kids, they'll always bake for the bakesales....why should there be more ministries for them?

Sorry if this is rambling, and i don't mean to attack anyone. I think this will be my last post on the debate table for a few years....

Edit: i quoted Papist twice!

Edited August 29, 2011 by LaPetiteSoeur