Female Altar Servers And Vocations

[LaPetiteSoeur]

I've been reading a lot about female altar servers, and the current debate about whether or not it hurts vocations to the priesthood. I thought maybe I'd put in my two cents, then ask for your opinions, etc.

I was an altar server since 4th grade. There was an almost equal amount in my "class" and the only reason why there were a few more girls was a shortage of boys in my actual 4th grade class (out of 25, I think there were 11 boys and maybe 14 girls). I wanted to be an altar server because I saw everyone else up there, helping during the Mass and bringing people closer to Christ.

When I switched churches in 6th grade, I continued. There, there were MANY more girls than boys, and that was because my parish was still recovering from a 1980s almost closure. We were small, and EVERYONE had girls. It was strange, yes, but in the congregation, there were more young girls than boys--and still are.

I loved altar serving. I still do. I credit the discovery of my own vocation--TO THE CONVENT--to my days as an altar server AND those amesome sisters and priests I met along the way. Because of my altar serving, I was able to learn about my faith in tangible ways.

I STILL do not understand the argument that guys won't be altar servers because of girls serving the altar. If they become priests, who are the going to work with most of the time? In parish offices, I have never come across a male secretary, or housekeeper or cook. It's not like female altar servers want to be priests--I have never, and will never ever ever want to be a priest. I know where I'm called in the Church. I served with a guy altar server for six years--we were a server "team," and the only ones who altar served the Saturday Mass. He didn't mind at all that I was a girl. He served the altar because he WANTED to and was CALLED to do that. He's now involved in his local campus Catholic ministry, and doing very well.

If this sounds like a load of bunk, I want to know why. Please be charitable, but honest. Thanks!

NOTE: I am not a feminist. I do not believe in women-priests. I don't believe in going against the pope--I love B16 too much! I know I am called to the religious life and I'm not going to be some liberal crazy nun.

[Basilisa Marie]

I agree with pretty much everything you said, but would add that I am a feminist, and don't believe that you have to be crazy liberal and against the Church and hate the pope to be one.

I was also an altar server, and have heard people say that too many girls keeps the boys away. I've never actually seen this happen...has anyone else? And although I'm certainly not against having only boys altar serve, I do worry that with the priest shortage so much emphasis is put on fostering male vocations that the girls get left out. But I might just think that because I've been around too many people that think "well, the girls will always come to church, you can take that for granted." People say that something like 90% of seminarians were altar boys. Makes me wonder if it's just a correlation does not equal causation deal, or if there actually is some truth to this.

[BigJon16]

It's interesting to read this point of view. I've always been against female altar servers, though you make a valid point.

But the girls that are altar serving should first understand, that priesthood is a guy thing. And so is altar serving.

As a guy, an altar server, and someone who is descerning the priesthood, I really feel that altar serving should be reserved to guys only [u]unless[/u] they dont have enough boys and there is a need for more servers. Personally, when I altar serve, I feel a special grace that I can't really describe in any way other than that its a calling. A calling to priesthood I think.

I guess I realize that girls can feel that too. BUT they should understand that its not a call to priesthood for them.


On another more lame note, I think that if girls do altar serve, then they should NOT wear the cassock. It just doesnt look good. And the robe doesnt look good on the guys. Girls should wear the robe, guys should wear the cassock and surplice. I know its lame, but thats just my personal thought.

Good topic though, even if it is .

Edited August 26, 2011 by BigJon16

[LaPetiteSoeur]

[quote name='BigJon16' timestamp='1314393440' post='2295448']
It's interesting to read this point of view. I've always been against female altar servers, though you make a valid point.

But the girls that are altar serving should first understand, that priesthood is a guy thing. And so is altar serving.

As a guy, an altar server, and someone who is descerning the priesthood, I really feel that altar serving should be reserved to guys only [u]unless[/u] they dont have enough boys and there is a need for more servers. Personally, when I altar serve, I feel a special grace that I can't really describe in any way other than that its a calling. A calling to priesthood I think.

I guess I realize that girls can feel that too. BUT they should understand that its not a call to priesthood for them.


On another more lame note, I think that if girls do altar serve, then they should NOT wear the cassock. It just doesnt look good. And the robe doesnt look good on the guys. Girls should wear the robe, guys should wear the cassock and surplice. I know its lame, but thats just my personal thought.

Good topic though, even if it is .
[/quote]

I've personally never met an altar girl who wants to be a priest. Just an FYI. I have met a few who are seriously devoted to their ministry.

(My tone in this is purely informative, not attacking. I don't usually post in Debate Table because I can't deal with debates that get, um, rude and attacking. It messes with my soul... )

[BigJon16]

[quote name='LaPetiteSoeur' timestamp='1314393922' post='2295456']

I've personally never met an altar girl who wants to be a priest. Just an FYI. I have met a few who are seriously devoted to their ministry.

(My tone in this is purely informative, not attacking. I don't usually post in Debate Table because I can't deal with debates that get, um, rude and attacking. It messes with my soul... )
[/quote]

hahahahaha

I understand. lol.

You bring up a good point, its another angle to look at things from I guess.

[LaPetiteSoeur]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1314380496' post='2295308']? And although I'm certainly not against having only boys altar serve, I do worry that with the priest shortage so much emphasis is put on fostering male vocations that the girls get left out. But I might just think that because I've been around too many people that think "well, the girls will always come to church, you can take that for granted.".[/quote]

I agree!

If one looks at most diocesan websites, there are oodles are resources for men discerning the priesthood, and very little for women discerning the religious life. It's discouraging in a way; a while ago I used to wonder if the religious life really "mattered," as very few dioceses had outreach for women discerners. That was when I was much younger. But I cannot imagine discerning now without Phatmass and the sisters I had guiding me. So many discerners don't have those resources, so it must be terribly lonely.

[Socrates]

I don't believe in female altar servers, and I agree with the Church's position that preference should be given to male altar servers.
However,I don't think altar girls will in themselves destroy vocations to the priesthood or make little girls all want to become priests. I see altar girls as more symptomatic of bigger problems in the Church.

Traditionally, the role of altar server was considered part of preparing boys for a possible vocation to the priesthood, and I do think having altar girls weakens this role.

More problematic is that the whole original push for altar girls was driven by a feminist agenda of "gender equality" (believing that men and women should have exactly the same roles in society and the Church) rather than by any genuine religious need, and that this practice was carried out for many years in blatant opposition to Church discipline, until John Paul II finally made a guarded allowance for the practice. While it's not my place to condemn this disciplinary decision, I think it sends an unfortunate message that if Catholics act in disobedience to the Church, they can change the Church's mind. (Many modern Catholics unfortunately are poorly catechized enough to think if the Church eventually gave in and allowed altar girls, then it can just as easily do the same for priestesses.)

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1314380496' post='2295308']
I agree with pretty much everything you said, but would add that I am a feminist, and don't believe that you have to be crazy liberal and against the Church and hate the pope to be one.

I was also an altar server, and have heard people say that too many girls keeps the boys away. I've never actually seen this happen...has anyone else? And although I'm certainly not against having only boys altar serve, I do worry that with the priest shortage so much emphasis is put on fostering male vocations that the girls get left out. But I might just think that because I've been around too many people that think "well, the girls will always come to church, you can take that for granted." People say that something like 90% of seminarians were altar boys. Makes me wonder if it's just a correlation does not equal causation deal, or if there actually is some truth to this.
[/quote]
I think there more than likely is some truth to it.

While I don't think today we can take anybody coming to church for granted, there has widely been a widely-observed and discussed phenomenon of the so-called "feminization of the Church," with increasingly few men attending church, and church functions becoming increasingly female dominated. It's too big a topic to really go into depth on here, but I think that the predominance of altar girls, and female lectors, EMs, etc. is part of this trend.

While I attend a FSSP parish which of course has no female altar servers, and previously was part of a parish in one of the few dioceses that did not allow altar girls, in the parishes I've been to where there are altar girls, i notice they do tend to outnumber the boys.

Also, in the more traditional, conservative parishes I've been a member of, there is a generally even balance of men and women in the parish, without the lack of males noted in many more liberal parishes.
And the more traditional parishes and dioceses tend to have much greater numbers of vocations both to the priesthood and female religious orders. The two seem to go hand-in-hand, and both seem to thrive in more orthodox "conservative" settings.
I've never seen nor heard of a case of emphasis on priestly vocations leading to a lessening of female religious vocations, though I think both should be emphasized.

[Byzantine]

Well, the "altar boy" is a remnant of back when we had subdeacons who were just subdeacons (I think; since some Rites needed them for Mass/Holy Qurbana). The subdiaconate without prospect of future orders, unfortunately, has gone in many places except in possibly some of the Oriental Churches where they're essential to the celebration of Holy Qurbana. I guess the same goes for EF Catholics. So, since girls couldn't be subdeacons, that might be part of the rationale for only male altar servers.

There are not supposed to be girl servers in Byzantine Churches, although I've heard of at least one priest who permits it... Anyway, they're not supposed to.

Edited August 28, 2011 by Byzantine

[mortify]

Serving at the altar as an alter boy was meant to be almost like an apprenticeship. The idea was the guide young men into the service of the Liturgy, and almost all priests came from them. This was the norm for centuries, perhaps millenia. It was changed probably due to new thoughts on gender and feminism.

I think the lack of vocations has more to do with culture in the home, nation, and church than any one particular thing.

[MargaretTeresa]

I can see where the argument is coming from. Traditionally, boys were altar servers. I know at the parish at home, they have more girls than boys and it's easier to alternate with the girls. However, here at school, there are enough boys that we have many male altar servers with room to alternate for most Mass times. The only one I've been to that uses the same altar server at every Mass is the student mass at 5 pm, and that's because he's a college student.

[Brother Adam]

Boys were traditionally acolytes, not altar servers . Just like we have readers instead of lectors today.

Having women serve at the altar serves no necessary purpose. The parish in our diocese that does not allow altar girls (or other liberal minded practices) has 22 seminarians. That is one parish alone. Our parish, and so many like it have 0 vocations (we have had one young man become a priest in its entire history). Altar serving isn't the sole reason they have that many vocations blossoming, but it is one small thing that helps.

[Basilisa Marie]

[quote name='BigJon16' timestamp='1314393440' post='2295448']
But the girls that are altar serving should first understand, that priesthood is a guy thing. And so is altar serving.

As a guy, an altar server, and someone who is descerning the priesthood, I really feel that altar serving should be reserved to guys only [u]unless[/u] they dont have enough boys and there is a need for more servers. Personally, when I altar serve, I feel a special grace that I can't really describe in any way other than that its a calling. A calling to priesthood I think.

I guess I realize that girls can feel that too. BUT they should understand that its not a call to priesthood for them.


On another more lame note, I think that if girls do altar serve, then they should NOT wear the cassock. It just doesnt look good. And the robe doesnt look good on the guys. Girls should wear the robe, guys should wear the cassock and surplice. I know its lame, but thats just my personal thought.

Good topic though, even if it is .
[/quote]

I'm of the opinion that if a church has only altar boys, do the cassocks, otherwise albs for all. And I also haven't ever met a girl who thought that she was called to the priesthood through altar serving. In my experience the emphasis was on "you're involved in an important liturgical ministry" that eventually led to my current pursuit of a master's degree in theology - quite different from the priesthood, although I do see how for many boys it can turn into a calling to the priesthood.


[quote name='Brother Adam' timestamp='1314555016' post='2296382']
Boys were traditionally acolytes, not altar servers . Just like we have readers instead of lectors today.

Having women serve at the altar serves no necessary purpose. The parish in our diocese that does not allow altar girls (or other liberal minded practices) has 22 seminarians. That is one parish alone. Our parish, and so many like it have 0 vocations (we have had one young man become a priest in its entire history). Altar serving isn't the sole reason they have that many vocations blossoming, but it is one small thing that helps.
[/quote]

But then you could say that having altar servers at all serves no [i]necessary [/i]purpose. A priest is perfectly capable of presiding at mass without servers. I agree that altar serving is one small thing that helps, but I think the general character of a parish, particularly their faith formation program, is going to do more for vocations to the priesthood and religious life.

In my area one parish came up with a pseudo-"compromise"...boys and girls as servers, but only teenage boys as acolytes.

[Byzantine]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1314563931' post='2296473']
only teenage boys as acolytes.
[/quote]

Some Churches don't allow teenagers to serve because we're not considered pure enough anymore (not that I disagree with the reasoning).

[Basilisa Marie]

[quote name='Byzantine' timestamp='1314564277' post='2296478']

Some Churches don't allow teenagers to serve because we're not considered pure enough anymore (not that I disagree with the reasoning).
[/quote]

Ha! I find that utterly ridiculous.

[faithcecelia]

In my current parish, the main parish, only has males and the youngest altar server I have seen is about 70. Somehow I don't see that encouraging vocations, not that there are any young men to encourage. The Ordinariate has both male and female servers, all teenagers barring one old man, and seems to be attracting more and more teens. maybe its coincidence, maybe not....