Gods Desire Or Your Own?

[MaryJJD]

Hi All,

I've been reading/hearing about a lot of vocation stories, etc, and have a question over their diversity (for want of a better word) in that I am trying to understand and distinguish where that desire to be totally Gods thats underneath/within that discerners have comes from. First off though, I'm not putting down any ones vocation path or discernment. Obviously, God puts that desire there and it really is a vocation to religious life in some cases, but is it possible that it can come from ones own desires or be a temptation (can a desire for religious life even be a temptation-I've been told that God puts desires into our hearts to be fulfilled). Any thoughts on how to distinguish those?

Even though some seem to find their place/congregation/seminary quite quickly and easily, sometimes they leave after a time having then realised its not for them even though initially they and the vocations director were quite certain.

For others discernment appears much more difficult/time consuming process in some cases (more communities visited, even several entered one after the other and left, with it being a really rocky path), and then it seems perhaps that either the vocation is extremely hard to find/follow if it is one from God or that there isn't a religious vocation actually and that that desire would appear to have come from oneself, in that religious life isn't Gods will.

I hope that make sense at what I'm driving at (its close, but a hard thought to pin down...). Comments and discussion welcome.

God bless!!!

[BarbTherese]

[u][b]Quoting MaryJJD[/b][/u]



[quote]
I've been reading/hearing about a lot of vocation stories, etc, and have a question over their diversity (for want of a better word) in that I am trying to understand and distinguish where that desire to be totally Gods thats underneath/within that discerners have comes from. First off though, I'm not putting down any ones vocation path or discernment. Obviously, God puts that desire there and it really is a vocation to religious life in some cases, but is it possible that it can come from ones own desires or be a temptation (can a desire for religious life even be a temptation-I've been told that God puts desires into our hearts to be fulfilled). Any thoughts on how to distinguish those? [/quote]
In order to be entirely God's, we need to embrace His Will. The basic signs of vocation are:

Attraction to a life
Abilitiy and qualities to live the life
Acceptance into the life

If I am attracted to religious life and find that I am confident that I have the ability and qualities to live the life, then the next step is to make application to say religious life. If my application is accepted, I can then be fairly confident that I have a religious vocation; however, there are probably around 6 years of discerning by both myself and the community until I make final vows and the confirmation that I do indeed have a religious vocation and I make final vows.
The problem can be, I think, is that many think that the only way they can give themselves completely to God is in religious life. We give ourselves completely to God by embracing His Will for us - and in any lifestyle at all and embracing the duties of that lifestyle for the love of God.
Often here is much sentimentality and romantic type notions around religious life to my mind. Much emoting, flowery type language and images - and often this can be self-indulgent, although not necessarily so.
[quote]
Even though some seem to find their place/congregation/seminary quite quickly and easily, sometimes they leave after a time having then realised its not for them even though initially they and the vocations director were quite certain.[/quote]
This can happen, in fact I know of religious superiors that have not accepted applications, though the applicant's priest director was convinced the person had a religious vocation. The final decision and potential sign of vocation is up to the religious community and its superior(s).
[quote]
For others discernment appears much more difficult/time consuming process in some cases (more communities visited, even several entered one after the other and left, with it being a really rocky path), and then it seems perhaps that either the vocation is extremely hard to find/follow if it is one from God or that there isn't a religious vocation actually and that that desire would appear to have come from oneself, in that religious life isn't Gods will.[/quote]

This too can happen. Sometimes a desire for religious life can be a desire to have what one wants oneself, rather than a desire to discern and embrace God's Will. It can also reflect that religious life is advocated AS the only way to give onself to God and unsound 'theology'.

Sometimes this desire to have what one wants oneself, flows out of a sound desire and that is to give onself wholly to God. The problem lay in that this person is convinced the only way to give herself or himself completely to God is in religious life - this can come about through unsound spiritual direction or the complete lack of any sort of spiritual direction. A failure to sight that the person is self-indulgent rather than seeking to identify and embrace God's Will. Embracing God's Will can be a quite painful journey of detachment from self. If God's Will and our own ardent desires are in accord and we enter religious life, then within the religious life we are living this painful journey of detachment from self will be undergone in most instances. The Lord moves as He may.

God bless - Barb

Edited August 21, 2011 by BarbaraTherese

[BarbTherese]

I need add that flowery and romantic type notions are not appealling to my particular personality. This does not mean that these type of images and concepts will not appeal to a person who has a genuine call and vocation to religious life. I dont.

Secondly, if God is calling one to religious life, He provides all that is necessary - first the attraction attraction to religious life, secondly God provides the necessary qualities and God will provide a religious community that accepts an application.

The other thing I need add is that not all genuine vocations will start out as an attraction to religious life - sometimes the eventual attraction can take a strange course. I spoke to one priest asking him why he had entered a religious order and he replied "Because I was afraid of hell". When I laughed, he most seriously assured me that this was so. He had been finally professed for many years and was happy in the life and had entered pre V2 at a very young age compared to today. Although he had entered because he was afraid of hell, I later reasoned, it was a still an attraction to the life to keep him from hell in his very youthful years and thinking then. God provided him with the necessary qualities for religious life and a religious order that accepted his application - and the fact that he stayed until final profession, and until his death, proves that he did have a genuine call and vocation from God. Although I must confess, if such as he can fear hell, then I ought to be literally shaking in my shoes daily. He was a very holy and totally dedicated pries and religious.

I think that probably quite a few may may have entered religious life still with much growing to do spiritually and this takes place as they journey towards final profession. There is that old saying: God does not call the qualified, he qualifies the called.

I dont think anyone at all should be discouraged from hoping to enter religious life as long as this is in any way feasible.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Dominus vobsicum, JC "many are called few are chosen" Some are great oak trees and som just the under growth in the kingdom of god ( some are violet patches some shrubs etc etc) ones calling may be to any part of the body, not all are the brains so to speak. To discern which part you are in the kingdom of god and to accept if called to be undergrowth is as impotant a mission as a great oak tree because all is part of the kingdom of god if one part is missing the kingdom of god is not complete. If this helps hopefully.

God bless you

P.S. Like St Paul said the ear cna not say it doesn't need the eye or the body would be incomplete, each member serves a most important part.

[BarbTherese]

Very well said.

God's blessings on you also.

[HopefulBride]

I think it should be noted that if one enters and leaves that is not necessarily a sign that they were not called. The time one spends dating and even engaged is a discernment process, much like it the time a young woman spends as a postulant, a novice and even a junior professed is a discernment process. If after a year or a few months someone leaves convinced that they indeed are called to marriage, that is a successful discernment because that young man/woman leaves convinced of where they are called.

The same way if someone leaves a community more convinced ever that they are called to religious life, again this is successful discernment. It would be the same as if one were engaged and broke off said engagement not because they do not feel called to marriage but because they realize their intended is not who they are meant to be with. ***disclaimer, I am not suggesting folks go break off engagements left and right***

[cruciatacara]

Well put HB. I'm no expert but a priest friend of mine was married and had a son so he obviously thought he was called to married life but when his wife died and his son grew up he knew God wanted him as a priest. He even ended up officiating at his son's wedding! He was called twice to two different vocations. I think only the individual can know if God is calling... and trying to judge whether it's God's will or our will might end up being a little too judgmental. Maybe it's God will to call someone to one thing for a time and then to something else... I say trust yourself a little and the Lord a lot.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='HopefulBride' timestamp='1313927159' post='2292524']
I think it should be noted that if one enters and leaves that is not necessarily a sign that they were not called.
[/quote]
THIS x 1000!
When my sister was getting ready to leave for the convent, her SD was over, and I (jokingly) said to my husband, "This is the guy who is sending my sister to the convent." And the SD responded, "No, I'm not, God is, because that is where he wants her right now." And that "right now" part has really stuck with me. Just because a person ends up leaving a convent (or seminary, or engagement) does not mean that is not where God called them to be for that time. And it definitely doesn't mean God changed his mind or anything like that, either. It could just mean that there was a reason they needed to be at that place for that time, and now God wants them to take what they learned from that situation and use it in another place.

[faithcecelia]

[quote name='MissScripture' timestamp='1313939046' post='2292569']
THIS x 1000!
When my sister was getting ready to leave for the convent, her SD was over, and I (jokingly) said to my husband, "This is the guy who is sending my sister to the convent." And the SD responded, "No, I'm not, God is, because that is where he wants her right now." And that "right now" part has really stuck with me. Just because a person ends up leaving a convent (or seminary, or engagement) does not mean that is not where God called them to be for that time. And it definitely doesn't mean God changed his mind or anything like that, either. It could just mean that there was a reason they needed to be at that place for that time, and now God wants them to take what they learned from that situation and use it in another place.
[/quote]

Agreed.

I have no doubt at all that I made the right decision in entering Quidenham when I did. The past couple of years since they sent me away have been pretty horrific, but I truely believe that I needed the time there, and the time since I have been out, to get to the point where I am hopefully in a much better place to settle down in a more traditional community and give myself far more fully to the Carmelite life.

There [i]are[/i] I believe some who are adamant they have a particular vocation when they don't, but I think on the whole that shows very quickly.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='faithcecelia' timestamp='1313939640' post='2292570']

Agreed.

I have no doubt at all that I made the right decision in entering Quidenham when I did. The past couple of years since they sent me away have been pretty horrific, but I truely believe that I needed the time there, and the time since I have been out, to get to the point where I am hopefully in a much better place to settle down in a more traditional community and give myself far more fully to the Carmelite life.

There [i]are[/i] I believe some who are adamant they have a particular vocation when they don't, but I think on the whole that shows very quickly.
[/quote]
Yes. Just because someone enters doesn't mean they are called, the same as if they leave it doesn't mean they weren't.

[BarbTherese]

[quote name='MissScripture' timestamp='1313939046' post='2292569']
THIS x 1000!
When my sister was getting ready to leave for the convent, her SD was over, and I (jokingly) said to my husband, "This is the guy who is sending my sister to the convent." And the SD responded, "No, I'm not, God is, because that is where he wants her right now." And that "right now" part has really stuck with me. Just because a person ends up leaving a convent (or seminary, or engagement) does not mean that is not where God called them to be for that time. And it definitely doesn't mean God changed his mind or anything like that, either. It could just mean that there was a reason they needed to be at that place for that time, and now God wants them to take what they learned from that situation and use it in another place.
[/quote]

Well said indeed.........nor does it mean that the person was unfaithful to a call from God. Just that God wanted them in religious life "just now".

[OnlySunshine]

Well said, HB!

I think there is also the case of someone being infatuated with religious life and believing they have a religious vocation, like I did. Earlier on in my discernment, I would just look (not visit) a religious community and believe it was where I was called. I even talked to Mother Prioress at Buffalo Carmel and believed that since she asked me when I would like to enter, that I was called there. I also applied to the Carmelite DCJ in Wisconsin after visiting them for only one weekend and later withdrew it. Many, MANY people told me to slow down and take time to assess my decisions, but I wouldn't listen. I was adamant that I was called to religious life and that God was calling me NOW!

It's been 4 years since I started the discernment process and I have slowed down a great deal. If someone were to ask me if I had a religious vocation, I'd give them an optimistic "don't know." You really cannot know that you are called to religious life forever until you make final vows. The calling has to be acknowledged by the religious community. I am still discerning, but I will never say I'm absolutely sure again until I make final vows.

[cmaD2006]

[quote name='MaryJJD' timestamp='1313832976' post='2291881']
For others discernment appears much more difficult/time consuming process in some cases (more communities visited, even several entered one after the other and left, with it being a really rocky path), and then it seems perhaps that either the vocation is extremely hard to find/follow if it is one from God or that there isn't a religious vocation actually and that that desire would appear to have come from oneself, in that religious life isn't Gods will.
[/quote]

I don't know if I would say that.

Did I follow God's will for my life when I entered twice? Yes, I did. Did I follow God's will the 1st time that I left. Unequivocably, yes.

However what happened the second time when I left -- was that God's will? I won't say that it definitely was. Did the Lord permit it for my good? yes. That I will agree with. (note that my experience the second time was such that I should write a book about it ... it was not the norm, and even those who I've discussed the full story with have a hard time understanding it).

Its quite easy to speculate whether or not someone is following their own will, but honestly you can't say that for sure unless you know the person's heart.

After my heart wrenching experiences, I rather look at a woman who has left religious life with compassion, whether or not they are seeking to reenter. And not judge it.

[cruciatacara]

cmariadiaz - yes! I know a few people who have had horrific experiences of religious life but who can judge what happened to them except the Lord? Some saints had to go through h*ll on earth during their religious life and yet that was just God shaping and polishing them. I think anyone who says someone else is following their own will instead of God's, is setting themselves up as some kind of tribunal who has all the answers. Only God knows the heart and only He knows what he is asking of someone. We only have to read the lives of the saints to see this.