Jesus_lol Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 [quote name='Mr.Cat' timestamp='1315291685' post='2301001'] Awww... you need help understanding? [/quote] sure thing big guy, spell it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Cat Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1315285237' post='2300970']I have never before seen a man use a Winchester to put down a dying Cat, but im glad the suffering is ending.[/quote]Care to explain this then? Or do you need help with that too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Oh cat, your incompetence is always stunning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Cat Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1315293913' post='2301010']Oh cat, your incompetence is always stunning.[/quote]You can do that sort of stuff with Winchester in private, but not here Jesus_lol. Are you done messing around yet? Didn't you always tell me you're a troll? Edited September 6, 2011 by Mr.Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Cat Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1315273097' post='2300802']I'm not certain I really have an argument, just a bunch of statements and proclamations and such.[/quote][quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1315189837' post='2300304']For me, national identity is ultimately foolish. I certainly have my little streak of pride in group identity, but when I think about it, it's all rather silly. Government of any form must be a means to an end. [u]If secession would result in better protection of life, liberty, and property, I would support it. I'm really not certain it will[/u]--I think it's motivated, in general, by something very similar to the feelings that inspire aneurysms in those who oppose it.[/quote]Here you argue that your support was contingent on secession resulting in "better protection of life, liberty, and property". You seem uncertain if secession would.[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1315232079' post='2300473']A Libertarian shouldn't balk at [u]moral actions made illegal by government whimsy[/u]. You might as well join the Democrats, [u]if you think unjust laws are to be followed or defended. The good case for secession would be a demand for it[/u] ([u][b]I won't say majority, since I reject democracy as legitimizing force[/b][/u]) (so "[u]demand[/u]" is a really nebulous word. Hell, the argument is so vague as to be pointless. Probably I just like the look of my own words. Or perhaps it's a statement on individualism, cleverly exposing the weakness of collectivism)[/quote]Now here you seem to present a valid concern, similar to the Republic of Texas group, that claims Texas illegally joined the Union or was illegally detained in the Union. You also agree with the Republic of Texas group that secession should happen in spite of this super majority of Texans, or in other words, they reject democracy as a legitimizing force. You also make reference to "the good case for secession", implying you agree there is a good case, possibly under the conditions you stipulated before. Then again you reference a demand for secession... Also you continued in this discussion whenever this fanatical terrorist group is mentioned to reference it as the ROTC and attempt to ignore/minimalize its criminal/terrorist activity. Such as you did here after their terrorist activity was highlighted for you:[quote name='Mr.Cat' timestamp='1315019004' post='2299459']Kidnapping, death threats, assassination threats, possible arson, and many other acts undermining the state (such as issuing fraudulent passports or currency).[/quote][quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1315043703' post='2299544']You seem to have the belief that anyone who is not a defender of omnipotent government is likely to be a member of a terrorist organization. This is not my experience, but I respect your anecdotal experience, and/or paranoid assumptions.[/quote]This was in fact you're direct reply to this... You even threw in the personal attack that this was somehow a paranoid assumption on my part, that these acts I named made them terrorists. [b]But you're not sure how any of this could be confusing or misconstruing?[/b] But you have no argument? I agree.[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1315273097' post='2300802']I stand by my first statement: That it would probably cause more suffering than it would alleviate.[/quote]I don't think I agree with that either, while it may be an unpopular, unconstitutional, and possibly unwise... But suffering?[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1315273097' post='2300802']I also stand by this (I bolded some relevant words. Those in favor of secession are "they". If I were in their group, it would be "we" and I wouldn't have bothered discussing them in the first place (so there might not have been a 'we' at all, when you think about it (Or when I think about it)). I would have talked about the majority who oppose it):[/quote]But you did say a majority of Texans support it:[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1315004637' post='2299360']I'm pretty sure most Texans favor succession. I think a few anarchists might oppose it, though.[/quote]But this could be obfuscation. Since the topic is about secession but you have been mocking users for writing it as succession. But if you look at the reply I made to the post you quoted... my concern was more that you kept accusing me of things, like being a nationalist, for no reason that you have shared. Edited September 6, 2011 by Mr.Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I am a citizen of the Republic of Texas and I beleve that Texas should succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1315295685' post='2301013'] I am a citizen of the Republic of Texas and I beleve that Texas should succeed. [/quote] wait. change my mind. 'merica is too amesome... freedom is hte only way. it's the dream that we all share. teh hope for tomarrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 [quote name='Mr.Cat' timestamp='1315295216' post='2301012'] Here you argue that your support [s]was [/s]would be contingent on secession resulting in "better protection of life, liberty, and property". You seem uncertain if secession would.[/quote] My support [i]would be[/i] contingent. Since I have not supported it, it's better to phrase it that way. I support the general idea of secession from political bodies, and when I discussed this later, it resulted in confusion. [quote]Now here you seem to present a valid concern, similar to the Republic of Texas group, that claims Texas illegally joined the Union or was illegally detained in the Union. You also agree with the Republic of Texas group that secession should happen in spite of this super majority of Texans, or in other words, they reject democracy as a legitimizing force. You also make reference to "the good case for secession", implying you agree there is a good case, possibly under the conditions you stipulated before. Then again you reference a demand for secession...[/quote] I was commenting on your libertarianism, not on Texas secession. You need to slow down and read carefully. Because you dislike me, you read into things. Hence your freak out regarding my comment about [i]succession[/i], which would have been, loosely applied, the continuance of the government of Texas, which I am certain most Texans support, apart from some anarchists. You must separate that comment from the others about [i]secession.[/i] As I said, you being a political expert, I figured you were intentionally discussing the continued governance of Texas, not the removal of Texas from the Union. I suspected this was some clever ploy to prove that conservatism demanded no secession, thereby making a point about the supposed conservatives being quite liberal after all. Alas, you were merely using the wrong word. (And note the strikethrough text in that post. It should have stopped you in your tracks. I certainly would have adopted a different tack, had the roles been reversed (In fact, perhaps I should go through from my first response directly to you (The link to oatmeal.com was a general response, inspired by you) and play both sides, but with flair and elan on both sides!)) [quote]Also you continued in this discussion whenever this fanatical terrorist group is mentioned to reference it as the ROTC and attempt to ignore/minimalize its criminal/terrorist activity. Such as you did here after their terrorist activity was highlighted for you:[/quote] Since I disapprove of increasing suffering for the purposes of secession, you shouldn't bother attempting to compare me to a group that wants to increase suffering in order to bring about secession. I think that point is rather elementary and I will continue to mock you whilst you continue to imply I support them. [quote]This was in fact you're direct reply to this... You even threw in the personal attack that this was somehow a paranoid assumption on my part, that these acts I named made them terrorists. [b]But you're not sure how any of this could be confusing or misconstruing?[/b][/quote] Perhaps you shouldn't have implied I belonged to said group based upon my post about your misuse of a word. Nothing I had said in any way implied support of secession or violence to bring it about. That was entirely your bizarre leap based upon your personal issues. And I called your assumption paranoid, not you. [quote]But you did say a majority of Texans support it:But this could be obfuscation. Since the topic is about secession but [b]you have been mocking users for writing it as succession.[/b][/quote] Congratulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Cat Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1315315235' post='2301045']My support [i]would be[/i] contingent. Since I have not supported it, it's better to phrase it that way. I support the general idea of secession from political bodies, and when I discussed this later, it resulted in confusion.[/quote]You don't seem to adequately address your comments that were according to you confusing or misinterpreted. [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1315315235' post='2301045']I was commenting on your libertarianism, not on Texas secession. You need to slow down and read carefully. Because you dislike me, you read into things. Hence your freak out regarding my comment about [i]succession[/i], which would have been, loosely applied, the continuance of the government of Texas, which I am certain most Texans support, apart from some anarchists. You must separate that comment from the others about [i]secession.[/i] As I said, you being a political expert, I figured you were intentionally discussing the continued governance of Texas, not the removal of Texas from the Union. I suspected this was some clever ploy to prove that conservatism demanded no secession, thereby making a point about the supposed conservatives being quite liberal after all. Alas, you were merely using the wrong word.[/quote]I'm honestly indifferent to you, otherwise you would be on ignore. [i]Like Laudate_Dominum is.[/i] I am being as fair and reasonable with you as YOU allow. Regretfully your poor attitude and behavior makes that increasingly difficult. The survey I quoted showed only showed at most 31% of Texans believing that Texas has the right to secede, unless you can show otherwise?[quote name='Mr.Cat' timestamp='1314827571' post='2298299']In a general polling of from the [b][url="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/17/texas-secession-poll-75-o_n_188145.html"]huffingtonpost[/url][/b] shows 75% of Texans oppose succession and only 18% of Texans opted for succession. More starkly only 31% of Texans surveyed believed Texas had a right to succeed.[/quote]You once again call me a political expert, even though I never called myself this... even directly and explictly clarified this for you:[quote name='Mr.Cat' timestamp='1315047345' post='2299550']I am not an expert in political science, I have never claimed to be. Once again you assume incorrectly.[/quote]Honestly Winchester, you're not a good debater. It's best that you work on clearly and effectively communicating you're ideas. Because if you were a good debater, you would know that the Internet isn't a place of debate, and that in real debates great efforts are made to accurately portray the other person's position... rather than just making personal attacks, snide pedantic comments, lies, or slander... or misrepresentation of the other person, oh say as something their not...[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1315315235' post='2301045'](And note the strikethrough text in that post. It should have stopped you in your tracks. I certainly would have adopted a different tack, had the roles been reversed (In fact, perhaps I should go through from my first response directly to you (The link to oatmeal.com was a general response, inspired by you) and play both sides, but with flair and elan on both sides!))[/quote]So what you're saying is if I said you're a [s]deceptive delusional paranoid ideologue in denial [/s] person I respectfully disagree with... you honestly would completely ignored the strike-through? [b]I don't believe you[/b], respectfully. But that's just my observation.[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1315315235' post='2301045']Since I disapprove of increasing suffering for the purposes of secession, you shouldn't bother attempting to compare me to a group that wants to increase suffering in order to bring about secession. I think that point is rather elementary and I will continue to mock you whilst you continue to imply I support them.[/quote]So basically you're telling me that the group that has almost identical platforms to you, because it is related to terrorism, it's automatically disqualified. Is this some special rule for religious people, anything even remotely self-incriminating is wrong, but telling atheists that their communists (even when they condemn communism) is just how the cookie crumbles... or telling someone their a nationalist for no apparent reason... Really... Winchester... maybe the debate section isn't for you?[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1315315235' post='2301045']Perhaps you shouldn't have implied I belonged to said group based upon my post about your misuse of a word. Nothing I had said in any way implied support of secession or violence to bring it about. That was entirely your bizarre leap based upon your personal issues. And I called your assumption paranoid, not you.[/quote]I didn't imply... I asked you a question, that you did not directly answer. Maybe you also missed WHY I asked the question, but that's impossible since you admitted I asked it as a comparison... How could you forget this so easily... ... ... help me out here? But if you missed me highlighting how I understood your posts, scroll back up to read, but if you notice I never suggested you were supporting violence... Although you're belittling of democracy and claiming that democracy doesn't legitimize something leaves some open questions, that I was hopeful you would give answers to, which again you just haven't. Because... .... ... help me out here? But what personal issues? Maybe that I try too hard to get Mr. Funnyguy to give me a straight answer? I admit, that is becoming an issue for me. Also your [s]hypochondria[/s] issues about me being paranoid and a nationalist somehow.[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1315315235' post='2301045']Congratulations.[/quote]LOL. That was so... not funny... of an answer. Couldn't you of at least explained these [s]obsessive compulsive[/s] pedantic problems you seem to have? It's out of control, [s]hypertensive[/s] almost. Like "Is God A Moral Monster" thread, which I imagine some remotely obscure comment or out-of-context comment will be used as a personal attack... even though you have least four times in this topic accused me of paranoia and in another topic of passive aggressiveness... to benefit you're argument... which is the strict definition of a personal attack... But also like "Is God A Moral Monster" thread, unless you start reasonably replying I may leave this discussion for now... There is only so much non-responses I feel responsible responding to. Edited September 6, 2011 by Mr.Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 [quote name='Mr.Cat' timestamp='1315337413' post='2301181'] the Internet isn't a place of debate [/quote] Only good debaters know this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 [quote name='Mr.Cat' timestamp='1315292079' post='2301007'] Care to explain this then? Or do you need help with that too? [/quote] No i should think it is a fairly obvious play on words to the effect that Winchester is killing you in this stupid "debate". Fairly innocuous i would say. [quote name='Mr.Cat' timestamp='1315291685' post='2301001'] Awww... you need help understanding? [quote name='Mr.Cat' timestamp='1315291398' post='2300998'] Winchester is a man!? No wonder you posted here. [/quote] [quote name='Mr.Cat' timestamp='1315294260' post='2301011'] You can do that sort of stuff with Winchester in private, but not here Jesus_lol. [/quote][/quote] not really, its pretty easy to see that those posts were a flaccid attempt to say "no YOU are gay!"(somehow a rebuttal) i guess based on the strong evidence that Winchester is apparently a man. who knew. of course if one were to base someone else's sexuality on observing them interact once with Winchester, your posts in the last couple of pages would definitely get you your own float in a Pride parade. [quote] Are you done messing around yet? Didn't you always tell me you're a troll? [/quote] this is of course relevant? i post fairly seriously a lot of the time. But at least when my posts are funny, its generally intentional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Cat Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1315363431' post='2301410']No i should think it is a fairly obvious play on words to the effect that Winchester is killing you in this stupid "debate". Fairly innocuous i would say. not really, its pretty easy to see that those posts were a flaccid attempt to say "no YOU are gay!"(somehow a rebuttal) i guess based on the strong evidence that Winchester is apparently a man. who knew. of course if one were to base someone else's sexuality on observing them interact once with Winchester, your posts in the last couple of pages would definitely get you your own float in a Pride parade. this is of course relevant? i post fairly seriously a lot of the time. But at least when my posts are funny, its generally intentional.[/quote]Jesus_lol, okay... I don't consider it a "debate", but you are free to. I don't think of discussions as winning or loosing, but rather the depth that is achieved, which in this discussion no depth has been achieved. I guess you popped in to declare Winchester the winner of something stupid... Got it. My reply was more a constructive criticism that you just came in to praise Winchester, even though either he agrees with me (thus impossible for him to win in any context) or he disagrees with me (which he hasn't substantiated)... So you came in to say he is killing me because.... because.... because... Help out? So because you offered a teasing jest, like a troll, I did exactly the same. I guess you really didn't understand. So... after not getting it... you decide to throw "[i]no, you're gay![/i]" Which is both childish, homophobic, and almost a personal attack... also a bit creepy. But alright! You have a right to your perspectives I guess. But you posting seriously? You're right, you're posts generally are intentionally funny. Thank you for sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 [quote name='Mr.Cat' timestamp='1315364563' post='2301415'] Jesus_lol, okay... I don't consider it a "debate", but you are free to. I don't think of discussions as winning or loosing, but rather the depth that is achieved, which in this discussion no depth has been achieved. I guess you popped in to declare Winchester the winner of something stupid... Got it. [/quote] you are right, its not really a debate when only one side is arguing and the other side is just playing along. [quote] My reply was more a constructive criticism that you just came in to praise Winchester, even though either he agrees with me (thus impossible for him to win in any context) or he disagrees with me (which he hasn't substantiated)... So you came in to say he is killing me because.... because.... because... Help out? So because you offered a teasing jest, like a troll, I did exactly the same. I guess you really didn't understand. [/quote] An awkward one liner that i am gay could never rationally be considerd "constructive criticism". thats not me being offended, just pointing out a truth. You are being successfully trolled, and Winchester being the troll makes him the de facto winner [quote] So... after not getting it... you decide to throw "[i]no, you're gay![/i]" Which is both childish, homophobic, and almost a personal attack... also a bit creepy. But alright! You have a right to your perspectives I guess. [/quote] lol, you are truly amazing. [quote] But you posting seriously? You're right, you're posts generally are intentionally funny. Thank you for sharing. [/quote] again, my skin is practically bleeding from your razor sharp sarcasm. touche Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Cat Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1315366710' post='2301428']you are right, its not really a debate when only one side is arguing and the other side is just playing along.[/quote]You know this from experience?[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1315366710' post='2301428']An awkward one liner that i am gay could never rationally be considerd "constructive criticism". thats not me being offended, just pointing out a truth.[/quote]I guess you don't appreciate dimensions to sarcasm.[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1315366710' post='2301428']You are being successfully trolled, and Winchester being the troll makes him the de facto winner[/quote]Maybe, I will have to think about that.[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1315366710' post='2301428']lol, you are truly amazing.[/quote]And you are truly funny. You almost explicitly compare me to a wounded animal being put out of its misery... But you find this less offensive and more relevant... [i]Right[/i]...[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1315366710' post='2301428']again, my skin is practically bleeding from your razor sharp sarcasm. touche[/quote]Because you're trolling me in your mind, does that make you the winner? What a stupid world view. Edited September 7, 2011 by Mr.Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Mr.Cat' timestamp='1315367238' post='2301431'] You know this from experience? [/quote] no man, i know this from watching chimpanzees interact in the deep jungle. of course i know from experience. i have been trolled before. [quote] I guess you don't appreciate dimensions to sarcasm.' [/quote] you mistake me, i love a good solid bit of sarcasm when it has depth. i just find it laughable that you are trying to float a yacht in a puddle. [quote] Maybe, I will have to think about that.And you are truly funny. You almost explicitly compare me to a wounded animal being put out of its misery... But you find this less offensive and more relevant... [i]Right[/i]...Because you're trolling me in your mind, does that make you the winner? What a stupid world view. [/quote] I dont think you understand many literary devices. saying someone is totally killing someone else in a debate does not mean you want them to actually die. Edited September 7, 2011 by Jesus_lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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