Mr.Cat Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 [quote name='Amppax' timestamp='1314981701' post='2299232']you sited the huffington post. That's funny.[/quote]Why? Rasmussen Reports (75% opposing) and the Washington Post (60% opposing) found almost the same. There are not many surveys of this kind out there, but the bottom line is that in every survey done, a super majority of Texans oppose succession... and only a small minority support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 (edited) I'm pretty sure most Texans favor succession. I think a few anarchists might oppose it, though. Edited September 2, 2011 by Winchester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1315004637' post='2299360'] I'm pretty sure most Texans favor succession. I think a few anarchists might oppose it, though. [/quote] Supporting evidence please. [url="http://tinyurl.com/68ngmw5"]Why most Texans favor draconian central planning.[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 [img]http://farm1.static.flickr.com/30/39115703_ffc4dab263_o.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Cat Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1315004637' post='2299360']I'm pretty sure most Texans favor succession. I think a few anarchists might oppose it, though.[/quote]Well, it would violate the United States and Texas constitutions. So it doesn't matter even if hypothetically a majority of Texans did. But factually, a super majority opposes [i]secession[/i]. Winchester, are you a member of the RoT? A fanatical terrorist organization in Texas working for Texas independence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Mr.Cat' timestamp='1315009146' post='2299385'] Well, it would violate the United States and Texas constitutions. So it doesn't matter even if hypothetically a majority of Texans did. But factually, a super majority opposes [i]secession[/i]. Winchester, are you a member of the RoT? A fanatical terrorist organization in Texas working for Texas independence? [/quote] [quote name='Mr.Cat' timestamp='1315009146' post='2299385'] Well, it would violate the United States and Texas constitutions. So it doesn't matter even if hypothetically a majority of Texans did. But factually, a super majority opposes [i]secession[/i]. Winchester, are you a member of the RoT? A fanatical terrorist organization in Texas working for Texas independence? [/quote] [s]So we can't have our next governor, according to the Constitution?[/s] Oh...[i]secession![/i] Well, I don't know how many actually favor it--no one ever asked me, so your stats are either from many years ago, or are based upon a partial poll of residents. I actually don't care how many people are (remember, for me democracy is an ends, not a means), nor am I really that worried about those who do, although I understand they are frustrated with something or other and think secession will be a change. I am not a nationalist, but I understand you and many others are. While I disagree with your nationalism, I don't think it means you are uninterested in justice. In fact, your nationalism is probably motivated by some desire for justice. There is more than one interpretation of the right of secession, of course. Nothing in human government is ever really settled, I think. I am not familiar with the RoT (and so obviously not a member)--what terrorist attacks did they undertake? The acronym is intriguing, though. Is it related to the ROTC? Edited September 3, 2011 by Winchester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Cat Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1315011778' post='2299400'][s]So we can't have our next governor, according to the Constitution?[/s][/quote]You must of not understood the topic or have serious issues with pedantry.[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1315011778' post='2299400']Oh...[i]secession![/i] Well, I don't know how many actually favor it--no one ever asked me, so your stats are either from many years ago, or are based upon a partial poll of residents.[/quote]You don't know, okay.[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1315011778' post='2299400']I actually don't care how many people are (remember, for me democracy is an ends, not a means), nor am I really that worried about those who do, although I understand they are frustrated with something or other and think secession will be a change.[/quote]You don't care, okay.[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1315011778' post='2299400']I am not a nationalist, but I understand you and many others are.[/quote]I am not a nationalist. [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1315011778' post='2299400']While I disagree with your nationalism, I don't think it means you are uninterested in justice.[/quote]I am not a nationalist. You disagree with my non-existent nationalism.[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1315011778' post='2299400']In fact, your nationalism is probably motivated by some desire for justice.[/quote]But I'm not a nationalist... At this point, I am willing to say you are an extremely presumptuous person. Which isn't bad, except you always presume or assume incorrectly. [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1315011778' post='2299400']There is more than one interpretation of the right of secession, of course. Nothing in human government is ever really settled, I think.[/quote]What right?[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1315011778' post='2299400']I am not familiar with the RoT (and so obviously not a member)--what terrorist attacks did they undertake? The acronym is intriguing, though. Is it related to the ROTC?[/quote]Kidnapping, death threats, assassination threats, possible arson, and many other acts undermining the state ([i]such as issuing fraudulent passports or currency[/i]). No, not related to the ROTC. Edited September 3, 2011 by Mr.Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luigi Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Should Texas secede? I wish it would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 [quote name='Mr.Cat' timestamp='1315019004' post='2299459'] You must of not understood the topic or have serious issues with pedantry.[/quote] I thought the issue was secession, However, when you came in and commented on succession from the perspective of a former political science student, I assumed that, being an expert on political matters, you would not use succession in place of secession. I now realize you were probably exhausted from your deep research into the matter and in your haste to illuminate us, continued with the OP's bizarre spelling habits. [quote]You don't know, okay.You don't care, okay.[/quote] Okay. [quote]I am not a nationalist. I am not a nationalist. You disagree with my non-existent nationalism.But I'm not a nationalist... At this point, I am willing to say you are an extremely presumptuous person. Which isn't bad, except you always presume or assume incorrectly.[/quote] Is there a different term you like better that conforms to your belief? Since you are an expert in the science of politics, you probably know way more terms than the rest of us. [quote]What right?[/quote] Because you are a [s]nationalist[/s] person who identifies our country as a single entity and anyone who questions that (or seems unconcerned with national identity) as a potential ROTC member who kidnaps and possibly arsons, you do not identify the United States as a bunch of united states, but instead as a single body ruled by the Federal government, with which we all must identify or be viewed as wild indians and maniacs. [quote]Kidnapping, death threats, assassination threats, possible arson, and many other acts undermining the state ([i]such as issuing fraudulent passports or currency[/i]).[/quote] I thought all they did was dress up like Boy Scouts at school. They sound weird. You seem to have the belief that anyone who is not a defender of omnipotent government is likely to be a member of a terrorist organization. This is not my experience, but I respect your anecdotal experience, and/or paranoid assumptions. [quote]No, not related to the ROTC. [/quote] Oh. Well then disregard my previous comment about them dressing up like Boy Scouts at school. Why would you think I was a member of RAT? Oh, because of your [s]nationalism[/s] strong identification with a single national identity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Cat Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1315043703' post='2299544']I thought the issue was secession, However, when you came in and commented on succession from the perspective of a former political science student, I assumed that, being an expert on political matters, you would not use succession in place of secession. I now realize you were probably exhausted from your deep research into the matter and in your haste to illuminate us, continued with the OP's bizarre spelling habits.[/quote]So yes, serious issues with pedantry.[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1315043703' post='2299544']Okay.[/quote]Okay! I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, that you don't care and don't know, but if you keep replying like this... you will make it hard to believe you don't care.[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1315043703' post='2299544']Is there a different term you like better that conforms to your belief? Since you are an expert in the science of politics, you probably know way more terms than the rest of us.[/quote]I am not an expert in political science, I have never claimed to be. Once again you assume incorrectly.[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1315043703' post='2299544']Because you are a [s]nationalist[/s] person who identifies our country as a single entity and anyone who questions that (or seems unconcerned with national identity) as a potential ROTC member who kidnaps and possibly arsons, you do not identify the United States as a bunch of united states, but instead as a single body ruled by the Federal government, with which we all must identify or be viewed as wild indians and maniacs.[/quote]You seemed to be suggesting Texas independence, even against the majority of Texans, and that somehow it was in the state's best interest. But I was sarcastically asking if you were a member of the "Republic of Texas" group ([i]not ROTC[/i]). Perhaps you missed the subtle comparison of platforms? You seem concerned about Texan independence, which would suggest support for Texas nationalism... by making Texas a nation. I don't identify any country/nation as a single entity or the United States as a single body ruled strictly by the federal government. Once again you assume incorrectly... [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1315043703' post='2299544']I thought all they did was dress up like Boy Scouts at school. They sound weird. You seem to have the belief that anyone who is not a defender of omnipotent government is likely to be a member of a terrorist organization. This is not my experience, but I respect your anecdotal experience, and/or paranoid assumptions.[/quote]Once again you yield to personal attacks... accusing me of paranoia? Really? But the forceful kidnapping of an innocent family by the "Republic of Texas" (RoT) group to negotiate the release of some of their members is an anecdotal experience to you? That can be shown to be true and a decision that the organization made as a whole. This is anecdotal to you? Do you understand what anecdotal means? The "Republic of Texas" group is a terrorist organization because they use terror to promote their goals. Maybe you have reason why that shouldn't be reason to consider them a terrorist organization? But I dislike unitary state models. So... I disapprove of the idea of an omnipotent government. Once again you assume incorrectly.[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1315043703' post='2299544']Oh. Well then disregard my previous comment about them dressing up like Boy Scouts at school. Why would you think I was a member of RAT? Oh, because of your [s]nationalism[/s] strong identification with a single national identity.[/quote]I don't have an identification with a single national identity. Once again you assume incorrectly... Why would I think you were a RAT? I don't know, I didn't say you were. Edited September 3, 2011 by Mr.Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pontifite 7 of 10 Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 I really dont America to lose a Red State. Lets give them whatever they want so they'll sticka round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 son, am disappoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1315043703' post='2299544'] I thought the issue was secession, However, when you came in and commented on succession from the perspective of a former political science student, I assumed that, being an expert on political matters, you would not use succession in place of secession. I now realize you were probably exhausted from your deep research into the matter and in your haste to illuminate us, continued with the OP's bizarre spelling habits. Okay. Is there a different term you like better that conforms to your belief? Since you are an expert in the science of politics, you probably know way more terms than the rest of us. Because you are a [s]nationalist[/s] person who identifies our country as a single entity and anyone who questions that (or seems unconcerned with national identity) as a potential ROTC member who kidnaps and possibly arsons, you do not identify the United States as a bunch of united states, but instead as a single body ruled by the Federal government, with which we all must identify or be viewed as wild indians and maniacs. I thought all they did was dress up like Boy Scouts at school. They sound weird. You seem to have the belief that anyone who is not a defender of omnipotent government is likely to be a member of a terrorist organization. This is not my experience, but I respect your anecdotal experience, and/or paranoid assumptions. Oh. Well then disregard my previous comment about them dressing up like Boy Scouts at school. Why would you think I was a member of RAT? Oh, because of your [s]nationalism[/s] strong identification with a single national identity. [/quote] How can you not love this guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 [quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1315111083' post='2299945'] How can you not love this guy? [/quote] inorite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 [quote name='Mr.Cat' timestamp='1315047345' post='2299550'] So yes, serious issues with pedantry.Okay! I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, that you don't care and don't know, but if you keep replying like this... you will make it hard to believe you don't care.I am not an expert in political science, I have never claimed to be. Once again you assume incorrectly.You seemed to be suggesting Texas independence, even against the majority of Texans, and that somehow it was in the state's best interest. But I was sarcastically asking if you were a member of the "Republic of Texas" group ([i]not ROTC[/i]). Perhaps you missed the subtle comparison of platforms? You seem concerned about Texan independence, which would suggest support for Texas nationalism... by making Texas a nation. I don't identify any country/nation as a single entity or the United States as a single body ruled strictly by the federal government. Once again you assume incorrectly... Once again you yield to personal attacks... accusing me of paranoia? Really? But the forceful kidnapping of an innocent family by the "Republic of Texas" (RoT) group to negotiate the release of some of their members is an anecdotal experience to you? That can be shown to be true and a decision that the organization made as a whole. This is anecdotal to you? Do you understand what anecdotal means? The "Republic of Texas" group is a terrorist organization because they use terror to promote their goals. Maybe you have reason why that shouldn't be reason to consider them a terrorist organization? But I dislike unitary state models. So... I disapprove of the idea of an omnipotent government. Once again you assume incorrectly.I don't have an identification with a single national identity. Once again you assume incorrectly... Why would I think you were a RAT? I don't know, I didn't say you were. [/quote] I don't think there was much assumption. I think mainly they were inferences or conclusions or some such. Perhaps deductions; I can never keep all that straight. Whatever they were, they may have been incorrect, but they were based directly off of your extremely strong reaction to secession. Assumption sounds reckless, to me, and I wasn't being reckless. Snitty, maybe. But not reckless. For me, national identity is ultimately foolish. I certainly have my little streak of pride in group identity, but when I think about it, it's all rather silly. Government of any form must be a means to an end. If secession would result in better protection of life, liberty, and property, I would support it. I'm really not certain it will--I think it's motivated, in general, by something very similar to the feelings that inspire aneurysms in those who oppose it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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