Petition To Recall Youcat - Mark Shea's Take On The Silliness

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1313522372' post='2289284']
I do not have a problem with what the intended message/goal is. It is the ambiguity, which can lead the reader to a wrong or inaccurate understanding.
[/quote]
That's cool. Lack of clarity on major issues of difficulty in modern society does strike me as a big shortcoming as well.

ETA: Although I've not read the youcat and am reticent to judge it based on cherry picked problem paragraphs.

Edited August 16, 2011 by Laudate_Dominum

[Papist]

[quote name='MissScripture' timestamp='1313522149' post='2289281']
I'm not sure how you can argue that what is said above is too confusing for teens, but then argue they are capable of understanding the regular Catechism, which is written in a far more confusing manner for the average teen than the YOUCAT.
[/quote]
Yes, I agree. The CCC is intellectually tough to read for a teen. However, it is clear and concrete.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[brief interlude]

Papist,

"I can be obedient, because it is my fundamental conviction that my intelligence is limited and the Church is wiser." Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger

I wonder what he says now that he's the Pope. haha. He is obedient to himself and in full communion with himself. Because he said so. (I'm only joking btw.)


[/brief interlude]

[Papist]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1313522926' post='2289294']
[brief interlude]

Papist,

"I can be obedient, because it is my fundamental conviction that my intelligence is limited and the Church is wiser." Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger

I wonder what he says now that he's the Pope. haha. He is obedient to himself and in full communion with himself. Because he said so. (I'm only joking btw.)


[/brief interlude]
[/quote]
He must have known he was going to be Pope and wanted everyone in-line. The man's a genius!

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1313521962' post='2289279']

No they really aren't. The CCC was written to the level of theologians and clergy, to be used as an authoritative reference to produce other catechisms, among other uses. The reading level it contains is above the comprehension of many teens, and in the case of teens in my area, far above their level. In the USA, the liberal socialist secularist agenda has wreaked havoc on the public school system. As a result, many teens cannot read at their own grade level. In my own parish, we have roughly 150 confirmandi each year. Of those perhaps 20 read at or above their grade level.

As for the BC, it is well written and easy to understand but it has a serious flaw for today's youth. It fails to explain the why? and how?. Today's youth are hungry for why? and are not content with being told to believe something because 'I told you to, that's why!'.

YOUCAT tries to merge the best of both and make it accessible to youth. It is the best thing I have seen written for teens in a long long time.
[/quote]
great post. i would add that i don't think i'm a dumb person, and consider myself fairly well-read, and yet, i still have trouble reading the Catechism. how much more would a teenager (who probably doesn't read many books for pleasure) have a harder time?

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1313522317' post='2289283']
I just saw this on facebook.


[b] [url="http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/youth-catechism-also-wrong-on-euthanasia-other-religions-vatican-admits/"][size=3][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Youth Catechism also wrong on euthanasia, other religions Vatican admits[/font][/size][/url][/b]
[/quote]
yeah, that's from April, you know. and they had a reprinting since then.

edit: saw brother adam already covered this. oops!

Edited August 16, 2011 by Lil Red

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1313522625' post='2289291']
That's cool. Lack of clarity on major issues of difficulty in modern society does strike me as a big shortcoming as well.

ETA: Although I've not read the youcat and am reticent to judge it based on cherry picked problem paragraphs.
[/quote]
my friends and i are going to read it (we actually call it the Bad Catholics group). i'll be more likely to give my two measly cents after i've started reading it.

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1313522722' post='2289292']
Yes, I agree. The CCC is intellectually tough to read for a teen. However, it is clear and concrete.
[/quote]
ummm, what? lol. there are parts in the CCC that are most definitely not clear.

[Papist]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1313526785' post='2289337']
ummm, what? lol. there are parts in the CCC that are most definitely not clear.
[/quote]
Poor, poor Lil Red.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

pax domine...
Minimum edumacation if one is to be supposed modern catholic may possibly be century school book(and i say possibly because i am no elder nore married nore priest only 7 years old layity possibly 9-10 if one includes the first 13 or so years of life as equivelant to 1 or 2 years of adult reason in the faith and concious development of the concience[i wan't get into the reasons why my first 13 years only equal 1 or 2 of an adult,am a prodigal check all my posts since yesterday,i gave a summary.), past 100 years therefore includes vat 1 and the latin rite plus the current chatechism and all ecclesiastical letters from the popes during that period. Me the bible is modern christianity,from the birth of our lord to the apostles and his resurection than to the church.
JC " seek and ye shall find,knock and the door will be opened" he doesn't mention though how many times one must knock nore how long one must seek for, whatever the father wills for the sanctity of our lives personally and communaly.
God bless you all.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1313527036' post='2289340']
Poor, poor Lil Red.
[/quote]
i can't tell if you're joking. whatchoo mean, willis?

[Papist]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1313527841' post='2289343']
i can't tell if you're joking. whatchoo mean, willis?
[/quote]
We need a sarcasm font. I was not being condescending, but sarcastic.
We all have difficulty reading the Catechism...but doesn't mean we need a teen Catechism, just maybe a teen companion for the Catechism.
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Footnote:

My grade school through high years were of watered down catechesis. For example, a nun taught me hell did not exist and never taught mortal sin is serious enough that it kills the life of grace within me. My world was rocked when I got older and started reading more on Church teachings, especially apologetics material.
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PS - I would never dare intentional insult an Admin.

Edited August 16, 2011 by Papist

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1313528670' post='2289345']We need a sarcasm font. I was not being condescending, but sarcastic.
We all have difficulty reading the Catechism...but doesn't mean we need a teen Catechism, just maybe a teen companion for the Catechism.[/quote]
i think anyone who grew up in the 70s and 80s (especially) was not really taught the Faith (yes, there are places where it did happen, but on the whole, lots of places where it didn't).

I actually really like the Adult Catechism that the USCCB put out. I just guess i don't understand the reticence to having a teen catechism. if adults can have a catechism 'geared' toward them, why not teens?

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1313528670' post='2289345']PS - I would never dare intentional insult an Admin.[/quote]
it wouldn't be the first time for me.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1313528670' post='2289345']
We all have difficulty reading the Catechism...but doesn't mean we need a teen Catechism, just maybe a teen companion for the Catechism.
[/quote]

We have one, its called YouCat. That is why it has paragraph references all over it to the full catechism.

Seriously, even back in the days when we used had the Catechism of the Council of Trent no one in their right mind would throw it at your average teenager and expect them to use it. That is why they developed the Baltimore Catechism 0-4 based on age. When the CCC was developed the authors intentionally had it in mind to be used to develop other catechisms based on cultural and developmental needs.

[Papist]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1313529677' post='2289350']
i think anyone who grew up in the 70s and 80s (especially) was not really taught the Faith (yes, there are places where it did happen, but on the whole, lots of places where it didn't).

I actually really like the Adult Catechism that the USCCB put out. I just guess i don't understand the reticence to having a teen catechism. if adults can have a catechism 'geared' toward them, why not teens?

it wouldn't be the first time for me.


[/quote]


[quote name='Brother Adam' timestamp='1313530489' post='2289361']

We have one, its called YouCat. That is why it has paragraph references all over it to the full catechism.

Seriously, even back in the days when we used had the Catechism of the Council of Trent no one in their right mind would throw it at your average teenager and expect them to use it. That is why they developed the Baltimore Catechism 0-4 based on age. When the CCC was developed the authors intentionally had it in mind to be used to develop other catechisms based on cultural and developmental needs.
[/quote]

I am not saying there shouldn't be a teen version. I am saying it should not be ambiguous, which the excerpts I have read are. If something is ambiguous it allows the reader to interrupt the teaching to how they think. Sort of like horoscopes.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1313533458' post='2289386']I am not saying there shouldn't be a teen version. I am saying it should not be ambiguous, which the excerpts I have read are. If something is ambiguous it allows the reader to interrupt the teaching to how they think. Sort of like horoscopes.[/quote]
but is it ambiguous when taken as a whole? that is what i'm not sure of because i haven't read it yet. if you cherry-pick statements out of any book, then it can seem ambiguous.