The Texas Unmiracle

[dairygirl4u2c]

remember, 'borrow and spend' is just as much a conservative thing. started with reagan, in fact, that's where we really began messing up.
conservative would rather cut spending, im sure, than borrow, but liberals would rather increase taxes. an in truth, normal people would find a healthy balance... our downfall could very well be our bull headed democracy. that's why we have to lets the executive branch do so much, or we have a group of twelve decide our budgetary solutions.

[Amppax]

this thread got fun while i was gone.

[Jesus_lol]

Rick Perry had an innocent man executed when he refused to stay the execution of Cameron Todd Willingham when new forensic evidence exonerated him.
[url="http://articles.cnn.com/2009-10-01/justice/texas.execution.probe_1_willingham-case-cameron-todd-willingham-execution?_s=PM:CRIME"]http://articles.cnn....ion?_s=PM:CRIME[/url]

He then squashed the investigation into it, replacing everyone on it
[url="http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/04/14/texas.arson.review/index.html"]http://www.cnn.com/2...view/index.html[/url]

after raising 11 million dollars from oil and gas companies, he then said that climate scientists are lying to increase their cashflow.

sounds like an amesome guy


also, lol
[img]http://i.imgur.com/UTcMz.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/4iiK5.jpg[/img]

Edited August 18, 2011 by Jesus_lol

[dairygirl4u2c]

i got an A in economics.... a graduate class too
make me president

[Maggyie]

I am not really eager to vote for ANOTHER Governor of Texas when the last one didn't work out so well. It's not fair but it's true. Also I'm pretty sure he's in politics just because he has so much hair. The hair would be wasted in a field like accounting.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1313642489' post='2290420']
[img]http://i.imgur.com/UTcMz.jpg[/img]
[/quote]
I wonder how many of those children (or their parents, rather) are citizens of the United States...

[Lil Red]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1313704068' post='2290837']
I wonder how many of those children (or their parents, rather) are citizens of the United States...[/quote]
Does that matter, as a Catholic?

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1313704427' post='2290845']
Does that matter, as a Catholic?
[/quote]
As a Catholic, no. For the purposes of identifying whether the ruler of a (semi-)sovereign territory is competent, yes.

Edited August 18, 2011 by USAirwaysIHS

[Lil Red]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1313704773' post='2290852']
As a Catholic, no. For the purposes of identifying whether the ruler of a (semi-)sovereign territory is competent, yes.[/quote]
I think I understand your meaning.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1313533654' post='2289391']
i'd like to know your thoughts on this blogpost i shared on my facebook page. Don John commented on it, with some good Texas perspective, but let me know what you think.
[url="http://redcardigan.blogspot.com/2011/08/not-tempted-to-break-my-pledge.html"]http://redcardigan.b...-my-pledge.html[/url]
[/quote]
I've only lived in Texas a few years; Don Jon probably has a better Texan perspective than myself. Everybody here beeshes about Perry, but somehow he manages to keep winning elections. He seems like a mixed bag - he's definitely a politician (someone described him as "a politician's politician") and it's obvious he knows his politicking, but I don't think he's any worse than most of the other politicians running for office. He's definitely preferable to Obama, though that's not saying much at all.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Brother Adam' timestamp='1313518373' post='2289234']

Why did he cut money from public education and why is he bad for doing that? From what I understand most public education systems are over saturated with money and under performing - they simply don't work. If I give you money to do something and you don't do it, I'll probably take the money away from you. Or was there just no money in the budget and he was being fiscally conservative and not spending what he didn't have. As a Catholic I am not a fan of public education which exists for the state to make citizens of the state. I think of it as an absolute last case scenario when a family cannot home school or send their children to private school.
[/quote]
I agree.

A hundred years ago, we spent much, much less on public education, yet American students then learned far more than they do today in most schools. Most high school students then read and studied great literature and ideas which are beyond the level of many of today's college graduates. Many public high schools are infamous for churning out functional illiterates with diplomas.

Over the decades, we've kept spending more and more on the public school system with less and less to show for it.

The entire system is bloated and in need of serious overall and trimming.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Marie-Therese' timestamp='1313622955' post='2290166']
I still think that public advocacy of secession is incompatible with trying to say that you want to the leader of a union, but that's my perspective, and we can agree to disagree on that point. Ultimately, though, it doesn't matter what Perry says. He wants to restore power to the states? Nice idea. However, when you hand the keys of the castle over to someone, their first act is rarely going to be knocking down the gate and covering the moat...the whole "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" concept. Government has a way of making Machiavellians out of otherwise decent people.
[/quote]
Don John covered this pretty well, but the being a President who believes in the rights of the individual states to peaceably secede from the union is no more incompatible with being its leader than being the leader of a club who believes its members have the right to leave the club if they so choose.

The Constitution nowhere gives the federal government the power to forcibly prevent states from seceding if they choose to do so. Belief in the right of states to secede has a long and venerable history in this country going back long before the War Between the States, and it's probably many of our early presidents - I'd say certainly Jefferson - would support the principle of states peaceably seceding in the event that the federal government become tyrannical.
Concern with limiting the power of the federal government and keeping it from becoming too powerful or tyrannical was an over-riding theme of the writings of the founding fathers.

After all, the US had recently won independence from Britain over precisely such issues.

Governor Perry was simply stating his agreement with this principle, and saying that Texas has the right to secede should the governance of the Union become unduly oppressive. I am in full agreement with this principle, whether Perry actually meant it sincerely or not.

If Perry meant what he said, at least if a Perry presidency became unbearably tyrannical and destructive (as many on here apparently fear), at least he would allow those suffering from his horrific "conservative economic policies" to break off peacefully, rather than wage one of history's most bloody wars to force them into submission, as a certain President of the 1860s did.

As for the "power corrupts" arguments, I fail to see how they apply more to Perry than any other politician running for President, including Obama himself.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' timestamp='1313562441' post='2289773']

He stands with the Church on the 5 non negotiables.
[/quote]
Don't be such a square-pantaloons.

Everyone knows that in these enlightened times, the only thing that matters is to vote for the guy who supports the government spending the most money.

[Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1313642489' post='2290420']
[img]http://i.imgur.com/4iiK5.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

I am not a going to campaign or try to push Perry but this seems stupid to me and is an ad hominem attack. One, to think that economics can be understood well after taking a class in college is the pretense of knowledge. The economy is organic in that it is made up of everyone and takes alot more studying to understand than one or two college classes will cover. Two, the president has advisors to help him make economic decisions for this reason. Three, much of what a President does does not actually influence the economy. The fed sets interest rates and the House of Representatives introduce taxes or tax breaks. The President may want them to do certain things but ultimately it is up to those individuals. Four, it may be fun to make fun of Perry but let's not pretend that "The Great Recession" ended in 2009. It is still going on and the economy is double dipping. Also, as far as President Obama helping the economy; many economists could have done a better job. President Obama, who was trying to implement Keynesian policies, has been criticized for not actually following Keynesianism but rather using the theory as an excuse to hand out money (we didn't have) to companies that were failing. He followed Keynesianism ineffectively and badly. Say what you want about Keynesianism, right or wrong, if one is going to follow it then follow it! Don't give bailouts and pretend you are helping the economy. Rather scrap the whole government's fleet of cars and buy new ones. This will cause the auto-makers to have to buy steel, employ workers, buy rubber, and computer parts for the cars. The money the government spends will directly be passed on to steel manufacturers, auto-industry workers, and tire manufacturers. Also, the profits the car companies make can go to paying off their bills. Don't just give them money so they can pay off their bills from banks and such. No employee will ever have that money passed on to them and it won't get people spending. Instead, it will just continue a liquidity trap by tying more money up in the banks. People will continue to save and not put money in circulation through spending and thus there will be no growth. Or another idea is to let the companies fail, restructure their deals with the unions, and reform as healthier businesses. One can ensure the companies reform by reducing taxes in the industry for newly formed companies and changing laws to make it easier for them to reform. Pick one and follow it. Don't pretend to do one and instead just give away money. I hate politicians. BAH!!!! /rant

[Marie-Therese]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1313707202' post='2290896']
Don John covered this pretty well, but the being a President who believes in the rights of the individual states to peaceably secede from the union is no more incompatible with being its leader than being the leader of a club who believes its members have the right to leave the club if they so choose.

The Constitution nowhere gives the federal government the power to forcibly prevent states from seceding if they choose to do so. Belief in the right of states to secede has a long and venerable history in this country going back long before the War Between the States, and it's probably many of our early presidents - I'd say certainly Jefferson - would support the principle of states peaceably seceding in the event that the federal government become tyrannical.
Concern with limiting the power of the federal government and keeping it from becoming too powerful or tyrannical was an over-riding theme of the writings of the founding fathers.

After all, the US had recently won independence from Britain over precisely such issues.

Governor Perry was simply stating his agreement with this principle, and saying that Texas has the right to secede should the governance of the Union become unduly oppressive. I am in full agreement with this principle, whether Perry actually meant it sincerely or not.

If Perry meant what he said, at least if a Perry presidency became unbearably tyrannical and destructive (as many on here apparently fear), at least he would allow those suffering from his horrific "conservative economic policies" to break off peacefully, rather than wage one of history's most bloody wars to force them into submission, as a certain President of the 1860s did.[/quote]

OK, I can concede that point. For the record, though, I never stated any opposition to secession as a philosophical stance. It's a perfectly legitimate option and well within the purview of the people of Texas (or any state) to choose that option, if circumstances warrant. My point was that the appearance of a candidate for office advocating a position that seemed to run counter to the point of that office made for bad public relations. However, I can agree that there are merits to the bigger argument in terms of the presentation of the idea as a possibility.

[quote]As for the "power corrupts" arguments, I fail to see how they apply more to Perry than any other politician running for President, including Obama himself.
[/quote]

That was my entire point. Perry is just one more pop-up in a giant political game of whack-a-mole. You could throw a dart, hit one, and get pretty much the same result from any of them. They just have different routes to the same end. Eventually the lure of power will be one too potent for the vast majority of candidates for that office to withstand. That had nothing to do with Perry specifically at all.