Death To Laundry Machines And Air Conditioners

[Era Might]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1312827066' post='2283381']
Wait until you have children and [they] need to do 2-3 loads of laundry a day.
[/quote]
Fixed.

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1312836250' post='2283455']You seem to love everything about poverty. Except for actually being poor, of course.
[/quote]
I don't consider using your hands poverty. I'm not sure what "being poor" means, but not being able to use our hands and feet is as good a definition of poverty as any. This is modernized poverty, characterized by the (socially planned) inability to subsist, as opposed to traditional poverty, which was characterized by people who couldn't do anything but subsist, and knew quite well how to do so.

Edited August 8, 2011 by Era Might

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Era Might' timestamp='1312839660' post='2283482']
I don't consider using your hands poverty. I'm not sure what "being poor" means, but not being able to use our hands and feet is as good a definition of poverty as any. This is modernized poverty, characterized by the (socially planned) inability to subsist, as opposed to traditional poverty, which was characterized by people who couldn't do anything but subsist, and knew quite well how to do so.
[/quote]
Our modern life might be lacking in some ways, but I will take it and many of its conveniences and luxuries over the 12th century English fiefdom that my ancestors endured.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Era Might' timestamp='1312839660' post='2283482']
Fixed.
[/quote]

ahahahahahaha... most children can't do laundry on their own until they are about 7 or so. There are a lot of loads between birth and then... A LOT!

[Era Might]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1312840402' post='2283485']
Our modern life might be lacking in some ways, but I will take it and many of its conveniences and luxuries over the 12th century English fiefdom that my ancestors endured.
[/quote]
Well, I think those are the wrong terms to think in. The point is not to go back to some point in history. "Lacking in some ways" is a big understatement (more like killing in many ways). The point of history is that we are always trying to improve, not that we are in paradise, or even that we have improved. Just that we're trying. You'd take today over the 12th century, and they'd take the 12th century over today. But neither of us have the option anyway, we only have the world we live in...but that doesn't mean we have to live in it the way society tells us to.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Era Might' timestamp='1312840722' post='2283488']But neither of us have the option anyway, we only have the world we live in...but that doesn't mean we have to live in it the way society tells us to.
[/quote]
Indeed, but I will not abstain from something merely because society says it's good. I don't want my apartment to be warmer than 90 degrees, so I use air conditioning. If you don't want to, by all means, you have that right, whatever your reasoning may be. I don't think going against the grain just for the sake of doing it is what you're arguing, but my point stands.

Edited August 8, 2011 by USAirwaysIHS

[Era Might]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1312842668' post='2283512']
Indeed, but I will not abstain from something merely because society says it's good. I don't want my apartment to be warmer than 90 degrees, so I use air conditioning. If you don't want to, by all means, you have that right, whatever your reasoning may be. I don't think going against the grain just for the sake of doing it is what you're arguing, but my point stands.
[/quote]
Well, our personal decisions have social/political implications. Society has decided to embark on the mass usage of technological energy (air conditioning, cars, planes, etc) far beyond the limits we really need for our physical and community lives. So, you're right that you can do whatever you want, and I can do whatever I want. But of course, in our personal choices we are also trying to recommend a course of political action in society. It's like Gandhi and his spinning wheel...that was part of his political vision for India. I envision a society where ascetic limits to energy and technology are taken seriously in our political life, and where we use technology to promote our natural abilities, not replace them. For such a society to come about would require political action. I don't expect such a society to come about, but who knows. All I can do is make personal choices, and let others make theirs.

As far as going against the grain for the sake of going against the grain, I don't think that's what I was arguing, but I probably would if pressed to it. I think history would bear out that nothing good ever came from going with the grain.

Edited August 8, 2011 by Era Might

[Era Might]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' timestamp='1312840662' post='2283486']

ahahahahahaha... most children can't do laundry on their own until they are about 7 or so. There are a lot of loads between birth and then... A LOT!
[/quote]
You have foiled my plans.

[4588686]

[quote name='Era Might' timestamp='1312845335' post='2283548'] I envision a society where ascetic limits to energy and technology are taken seriously in our political life,
[/quote]


What?

[CatherineM]

"[i]We believe that when you create a machine to do the work of a man, you take something away from the man.[/i]" Star Trek Insurrection.

[Maximilianus]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1312733604' post='2282970']
I got the plunger idea after watching a show set in Victorian England, and they washed their clothes using something called a copper posser.

[/quote]

Copper posser. I'm adding that in my insult repertoire.

Edited August 9, 2011 by Maximilianus

[Tally Marx]

Where I live, it's 105 degrees in summer, with 95% humidity. If we all owned plantation homes with tall ceilings, etc. We could live without air conditioning...

[CatherineM]

I turned our air conditioner on for the first time today.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Era Might' timestamp='1312726743' post='2282934']
Women all over the world get through pregnancy without air conditioning. But "special cases" such as you raise can be accommodated without making A/C a regular lifestyle luxury. That's the real issue for me: I'm not against technology just because it's technology, I'm only against it to the extent that it replaces our natural and social abilities rather than helping us use them.
[/quote]
Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. There is no nature, only technology. You have no chance to survive make your time.

[arfink]

Well, say what you will about modern technology being made "because we can." That's how tech develops- some maniac engineer or designer or tinkerer gets an idea, and he won't stop until it's built. Reasons? Well, some guys do it because they really need a particular tool, others do it because no one else has done it and they crave a challenge. If you're like me you build things just because you can, for the fulfilment of BUILDING. Unfortunately being an engineer in our society means you have to build a product, otherwise you will have no job. As a hobby-engineer I can break out of that and build what I like, since it's no longer about profit.

My take on modern society's desire to take self-sustenance away from all men is not to revert to being agricultural peons digging with sticks and washing with plungers, but to take modern technology and remove the proprietary element so that everyone can have a shot at building it or owning it. You would be surprised at how many crucial parts of modern life are encumbered by patents, regulation, and trade secrecy. That takes the means of production out of men's hands and leaves it to corporations or governments. Which in turn keeps the technology being produced from ever really taking root in the world. In the US we take modern mechanised agriculture for granted. In Africa people can't drill modern wells, make modern irrigation, and don't have access to the mechanised means of planting and harvesting that are needed to get good yield from limited amounts of land. And I'm convinced it has as much to do with that technology being kept inaccessible in terms of knowledge as it does in terms of price.

[Amppax]

[quote name='arfink' timestamp='1312908185' post='2284801']
Well, say what you will about modern technology being made "because we can." That's how tech develops- some maniac engineer or designer or tinkerer gets an idea, and he won't stop until it's built. Reasons? Well, some guys do it because they really need a particular tool, others do it because no one else has done it and they crave a challenge. If you're like me you build things just because you can, for the fulfilment of BUILDING. Unfortunately being an engineer in our society means you have to build a product, otherwise you will have no job. As a hobby-engineer I can break out of that and build what I like, since it's no longer about profit.

My take on modern society's desire to take self-sustenance away from all men is not to revert to being agricultural peons digging with sticks and washing with plungers, but to take modern technology and remove the proprietary element so that everyone can have a shot at building it or owning it. You would be surprised at how many crucial parts of modern life are encumbered by patents, regulation, and trade secrecy. That takes the means of production out of men's hands and leaves it to corporations or governments. Which in turn keeps the technology being produced from ever really taking root in the world. In the US we take modern mechanised agriculture for granted. In Africa people can't drill modern wells, make modern irrigation, and don't have access to the mechanised means of planting and harvesting that are needed to get good yield from limited amounts of land. And I'm convinced it has as much to do with that technology being kept inaccessible in terms of knowledge as it does in terms of price.
[/quote]

THIS

THIS
annnnnnndddddd
THIS.