Noemi Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Hi, I am just curious about the ancient, especially monastic tradition that the nuns covered their faces when they met a person who wasn't their sibling. Why this tradition had developed? I am wondering, maybe because of the fact that Moses' face was shining after he had spoken with God. When he walked down from Mount Sinai and he also covered his face. (Exodus 34,29-35) Are there any orders which follows that tradition now? Or it was deleted after Vatican II.? Any opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maximillion Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 I am not sure about others but we used an enclosure veil, longer and thicker than our ordinary veil. It has a big fold at the front which comes forward over the face when in view of anyone not a relative, priest or other Religious. The reason (by my NM) is because we are claustrated, dead to the world, alive only in Him. I believe it is so with most nuns who have Papal Enclosure and is like a mini form of maintaining this....... The contemplative Sisters of the Immaculate maintain this, but their ordinary everyday veil has the big fold at the front for lowering. The do it at Mass even though there is a Grille. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faithcecelia Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 [quote name='maximillion' timestamp='1312074121' post='2278768'] I am not sure about others but we used an enclosure veil, longer and thicker than our ordinary veil. It has a big fold at the front which comes forward over the face when in view of anyone not a relative, priest or other Religious. The reason (by my NM) is because we are claustrated, dead to the world, alive only in Him. I believe it is so with most nuns who have Papal Enclosure and is like a mini form of maintaining this....... The contemplative Sisters of the Immaculate maintain this, but their ordinary everyday veil has the big fold at the front for lowering. The do it at Mass even though there is a Grille. [/quote] One of my old sisters used to recount with mirth the time they had someone in to give them a lecture in the parlour and he had thought he was talking to the back of their heads! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbTherese Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 [quote name='faithcecelia' timestamp='1312096501' post='2278905'] One of my old sisters used to recount with mirth the time they had someone in to give them a lecture in the parlour and he had thought he was talking to the back of their heads! [/quote] Very funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maximillion Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Yes, when I visited I was always puzzled about which sister I was with in the parlour, but within about a week or so of entering I could tell who was who without ever having to see a face! Sr Françoise, the French sister, always so chiq! Sr Meredith - she always looked a bit lumpy...can't figure out why. Sorry...I digress. Does anyone actually know the theory behind Enclosure Veils? After having worn one for so long it strikes me I still don't know if this is enshrined in Canonical Law or something! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faithcecelia Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 [quote name='maximillion' timestamp='1312105169' post='2278921'] Yes, when I visited I was always puzzled about which sister I was with in the parlour, but within about a week or so of entering I could tell who was who without ever having to see a face! Sr Françoise, the French sister, always so chiq! Sr Meredith - she always looked a bit lumpy...can't figure out why. Sorry...I digress. Does anyone actually know the theory behind Enclosure Veils? After having worn one for so long it strikes me I still don't know if this is enshrined in Canonical Law or something! [/quote] I don't think it can be canon law, at least nowadays, as so few communities have them now. I think its more about emphasising enclosure and their demise, along in lots of cases with the reduction of grilles is representative of the changes that have taken place. In my old community we didn't have grilles in the parlour or use the grille in choir, however the enclosure was always respected - but because we knew it and each time chose not to break it rather than being physically prevented from doing so. Ah, I can totally relate to knowing your sisters without seeing their faces. I knew each footstep, each cough, each rustle.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Therese Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 This isn't something I've encountered before, having discerned mainly with active orders - but it sounds a beautiful tradition! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maximillion Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 I am trying to see if I can find a pic I know, of the Laherne community with their lovely blue veils folded forward. Patience though, as all this is new to me and I might not be able to manage the technicalities! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maximillion Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 (edited) This is the best I can do. [url="http://airmaria.com/2010/08/01/the-sisters-of-the-immaculate-in-cornwall/"]http://airmaria.com/...te-in-cornwall/[/url] We wore black Enclosure veils....in public they came right down further than this at the front. Once when I was with an extern at the dentist a little boy, about 6 years old, was fascinated by me and kept trying to see my face. Three times he asked his mum.......was I a monster? (We all laughed) Where was my face? Did I have ears? He almost fell over when I spoke to him. Edited July 31, 2011 by maximillion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiquitunga Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 Cool thread! Well I suppose I ought to post with an avatar like mine! .. The picture is of Mother Catherine Thomas in the book, [i]My Beloved, Story of a Carmelite Nun[/i]. Yes, this was practiced in Carmel a lot until the changes after VII. I don't know any any Carmel that does this as much as before, not even ones like Valparaiso .. but they definitely still do it a good amount .. like when workmen enter the enclosure, or when receiving Holy Communion they put it halfway down. Okay, so I shall come back and post more later. Great topic, Noemi! God bless! [quote name='maximillion' timestamp='1312124873' post='2279002'] This is the best I can do. [url="http://airmaria.com/2010/08/01/the-sisters-of-the-immaculate-in-cornwall/"]http://airmaria.com/...te-in-cornwall/[/url] We wore black Enclosure veils....in public they came right down further than this at the front. Once when I was with an extern at the dentist a little boy, about 6 years old, was fascinated by me and kept trying to see my face. Three times he asked his mum.......was I a monster? (We all laughed) Where was my face? Did I have ears? He almost fell over when I spoke to him. [/quote] maxilmillion, were you in Carmel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noemi Posted July 31, 2011 Author Share Posted July 31, 2011 Wow, great! I haven't thought that there are STILL orders that keep that tradition! In Hungary the cloistered nuns do not cover their faces. (I haven't seen too much cloistered nuns yet but according to photos.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faithcecelia Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 I must admit, I do love the fact that this Scripture quote was mistranslated many moons ago, leading to the belief that Moses was given horns [img]http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k216/ruthbale/michelangelo_moses1.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maximillion Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 [quote]maxilmillion, were you in Carmel?[/quote] No, it was a small Enclosed Sacred Heart Order (Ignatian), which is sadly no more. The Motherhouse was in France. If I can find some old Possie photos I'll post. I took myself so seriously back then I wouldn't permit photos of my Clothing etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MargaretTeresa Posted July 31, 2011 Share Posted July 31, 2011 I'm sad to hear that of your order. But welcome to Phatmass. I'm the resident (unofficial) prayer warrior, so let me know if you need extra prayers! Now, back on topic: Does anyone know of any cloistered orders/communities in the United States that veil as mentioned above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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