How Do You Know You're A Christian?

[Kia ora]

[quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' timestamp='1312044836' post='2278525']
I was being very sarcastic when I wrote that. Please excuse me.
[/quote]

My sarcasm meter is in need of urgent fixing.

Maybe I've been coming at this the wrong way. I'm not so interested in how you become a Christian, but what [i]being[/i] a Christian means. Of course you gotta believe in something to be a Christian, but it won't do much good to believe that Jesus is God and still sin like no tomorrow. In a way I think that's the hardest part. Baptism is just once. A creed you can assent to. But a life is lived, and taking up the cross and following Him takes all your strength, all your soul etc. How does a person know that she is following Jesus Christ in her daily actions and thoughts?

Edited July 31, 2011 by Kia ora

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Kia ora' timestamp='1312083028' post='2278817']

My sarcasm meter is in need of urgent fixing.

Maybe I've been coming at this the wrong way. I'm not so interested in how you become a Christian, but what [i]being[/i] a Christian means. Of course you gotta believe in something to be a Christian, but it won't do much good to believe that Jesus is God and still sin like no tomorrow. In a way I think that's the hardest part. Baptism is just once. A creed you can assent to. But a life is lived, and taking up the cross and following Him takes all your strength, all your soul etc. [b]How does a person know that she is following Jesus Christ in her daily actions and thoughts?[/b]
[/quote]
daily prayer,
and nightly examination of conscience.
and reminders of what it means to be holy (this will vary from person to person).

i think those are helpful beginnings.

Edited July 31, 2011 by Lil Red

[BG45]

[quote name='Kia ora' timestamp='1312083028' post='2278817']

My sarcasm meter is in need of urgent fixing.

Maybe I've been coming at this the wrong way. I'm not so interested in how you become a Christian, but what [i]being[/i] a Christian means. Of course you gotta believe in something to be a Christian, [b]but it won't do much good to believe that Jesus is God and still sin like no tomorrow[/b]. In a way I think that's the hardest part. Baptism is just once. A creed you can assent to. But a life is lived, and taking up the cross and following Him takes all your strength, all your soul etc. How does a person know that she is following Jesus Christ in her daily actions and thoughts?
[/quote]

I like you. Where were you when I went to a Baptist summer camp and the counselors were talking about Once Saved, Always Saved and how you could go on a mass killing spree and you'd go to Heaven because you accepted Jesus?

Anyhow...daily prayer is a good start. I have certain ones I do daily, whether I pray anything else or not. Often by the time of I think of them, I'm ready to drop, but force myself to do them. What kind of Christian am I if I can't give God 30 or so minutes out of 24 hours?

As to actions; I think Red's on the nose about examining conscience; though sometimes that happens as we're living our lives. Earlier for example, I was walking in the heat and humidity to go get a pizza at the mall and saw a woman with a kid and a kid in a stroller going for the doors. My first thought was, "I should go open the door", my second thought was, "I'm hot, I'm tired, I'm sweaty, she can get it". But conscience prevailed and I put on a little speed to get to the door first to hold it for her. I wouldn't have been a bad Christian for not holding the door, but I felt like I had done the right thing according to my faith (and common decency) by holding that door.

[infinitelord1]

hmmm. i just typed a bunch of stuff, and it didnt post. don't feel like typing again. maybe later.

Edited July 31, 2011 by infinitelord1

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='infinitelord1' timestamp='1312089991' post='2278888']
hmmm. i just typed a bunch of stuff, and it didnt post. don't feel like typing again. maybe later.
[/quote]
That's because you keep hitting the "report" button instead of the "quote" button.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Kia ora' timestamp='1312083028' post='2278817']

My sarcasm meter is in need of urgent fixing.

Maybe I've been coming at this the wrong way. I'm not so interested in how you become a Christian, but what [i]being[/i] a Christian means. Of course you gotta believe in something to be a Christian, but it won't do much good to believe that Jesus is God and still sin like no tomorrow. In a way I think that's the hardest part. Baptism is just once. A creed you can assent to. But a life is lived, and taking up the cross and following Him takes all your strength, all your soul etc. How does a person know that she is following Jesus Christ in her daily actions and thoughts?
[/quote]

Look at how nice I am... Here's what infanitelord typed last night. I'm doing this because I feel like it, not because Mods have to or anything...

[quote name='infinitelord1' timestamp='1312089991' post='2278888']
Now we can get into the differences between Catholic and Protestant. Protestants believe that the only thing that you have to do to be a Christian is Believe, and once you believe you are saved (here on Earth). Catholics believe that you become a Christian in your Baptism. Baptism is to be done as a Profession of your Faith or Belief in Jesus Christ. Unless of course you are Baptized as an Infant and the Parents take full responsibility for making sure you grow in Faith. Anyways, Regardless of how you become a Christian, through Baptism, you are required to grow in Faith, have hope in Gods grace, Obey God, and love God as well as each other. That to me is a much much more complete definition of what it means to have Faith in God as opposed to just believing.

.
[/quote]

[Groo the Wanderer]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1312078304' post='2278790']

Because why would anyone trade an eternity of perfect joy for a finite sin. It suggests a lack of sincerity of belief. Why are you on the internet right now? Why aren't you doing penance? Why would you spend a single moment either ensuring that you were reconciled with God or doing penance to ensure your swift bypass through purgatory once you are reconciled? If you really believed all this stuff.
[/quote]

mmm. yeah. wake up Hasan! sleep-posting may become habit-forming.

[add]

[quote name='Kia ora' timestamp='1312035613' post='2278469']
Well obviously you can call yourself one, but how does a person know that they really are a Christian? Or is this just a silly question?
[/quote]

[b] They Will Know We Are Christian By Our Love, (we will walk hand and hand) [/b]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaaIBcqcVig"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=kaaIBcqcVig[/url]

[cooterhein]

[quote name='Kia ora' timestamp='1312035613' post='2278469']
Well obviously you can call yourself one, but how does a person know that they really are a Christian? Or is this just a silly question?
[/quote]No, not silly, it's a good question. I'm glad you cleared up the "being a Christian" as opposed to "becoming a Christian"- I know it can be frustrating when responses pertain to something that's related and very similar but they don't quite address what you need.

When I answer this kind of question, I do my best to keep the focus on where God is and what He's doing. If I were focusing more on becoming a Christian (which I'm not), the focus would be on this thing that happens where God transforms a person from a non-Christian to a Christian (also known as regeneration) and begins indwelling that person. But that's not the focus.

In order to know if you currently are a Christian, a good starting point would be to look back on your life and see if there was ever a time when you stopped being an unregenerate non-Christian with no Holy Spirit dwelling within and you started being a regenerate person by means of God transforming you and then you did start having the Holy Spirit dwelling within you. It's important to have that as a starting point because if you're not really sure that you've experienced both kinds of things, it's extremely difficult to make any kind of comparison. If you haven't experienced both states, how can you expect to know the difference?

After that, I guess the next step is to see if God currently indwells you at this time. God- more specifically the Holy Spirit. One of the reasons He indwells people is to help you answer the question you're asking right now. You can do a few things other than trying to place where He is, though- it can make things a bit easier if you can identify all the different things the Holy Spirit does when He does indwell people. Then you can look at yourself and see if He is doing those things. That's a slightly less direct approach, anyway. There's also the extremely direct approach of asking yourself if God indwells you and answering that based solely on whether He's there or not. It's extremely direct, but it can be hard to know for sure if that's all you do. Speaking for myself, I typically go with a holistic approach and try to cover all my bases.

I'm not Catholic, btw, so asking myself about sacramental grace isn't as much a part of the picture. If it was, though, I would still keep the focus on what God has or hasn't done. I wouldn't want to assume that God has done something or that God is necessarily dwelling somewhere based solely on whether [b]I've[/b] done a certain ritual. If [b]He[/b] did do something that coincided with a ritual or rite, that's great. But in order for me to know that He did, that knowledge had better be based on the simple fact that He did rather than on my assumption that He must have. Infant baptism is one obvious exception to this rule- you take it on faith or you don't- but I'm pretty sure it applies to everything else.

Edited July 31, 2011 by cooterhein

[thessalonian]

[b][url="http://www.faithalone.org/index.html"] [/url][/b]
[b] Matthew 7:21-23[/b]

[b] [/b]

[b]21 Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who DOES the WILL of My Father in heaven.[/b]
[b]22 Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?"[/b]
[b]23 And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness."[/b]

Edited July 31, 2011 by thessalonian

[add]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XhUsJD0w1M&feature=related

[peach_cube]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1312078304' post='2278790']

Because why would anyone trade an eternity of perfect joy for a finite sin. It suggests a lack of sincerity of belief. Why are you on the internet right now? Why aren't you doing penance? Why would you spend a single moment either ensuring that you were reconciled with God or doing penance to ensure your swift bypass through purgatory once you are reconciled? If you really believed all this stuff.
[/quote]

This is a good question. I'll give it a shot from personal experience. At times in my life my faith has been quite strong and quite weak, it waxes and wanes much. This can be for a variety of reasons. I have found that trusting in will the God has been quite difficult at time for me. This may be due to the stubbornness of my personality, I also tend to take things in on my own shoulders in general in life and have a difficult time losing the illusion of control that it represents. If I could quantify and graph my faith it would not have much of a pattern until a best fit line was placed showing very slow progress of increasing faith. I feel that the depth at which I approach my faith now has allowed me to have a more persistent and meaningful place in most things that I do.

Now I still do sin. Which begs the question (as you put so well above) of why? Why would I choose to loose so much? We all have our faiths put to the test. Sometimes we fail miserably. I look to the Gospels, I look to the Saints, and I see examples of people picking themselves back up and gaining more faith from those failures. Outside of phatmass I am quite fond of science and baseball. In those interests you would expect to fail the majority of the time. In science, it is almost best to fail. In baseball, if you succeed 3 out of 10 times over a long career you may end up in the hall of fame. I sometimes (often perhaps) need to humbled. God has also given me some great gifts, part of my vocation is to look after those gifts and to help them with their faith, not every action needs to be obvious to an outside observer that I am doing it for the glory of God - only God.

I am not sure if that would make sense to you or if comes across as too simplistic, but it was worth a shot.

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' timestamp='1312115196' post='2278945']
That's because you keep hitting the "report" button instead of the "quote" button.
[/quote]
Thanks

[cooterhein]

[quote name='thessalonian' timestamp='1312143016' post='2279146']
[b][url="http://www.faithalone.org/index.html"] [/url][/b]
[b] Matthew 7:21-23[/b]

[b] [/b]

[b]21 Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who DOES the WILL of My Father in heaven.[/b]
[b]22 Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?"[/b]
[b]23 And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness."[/b]
[/quote]That passage immediately makes me think, "What was the problem for the people who got sent away? They did stuff in Christ's name. They believed they were Christians. They were surprised by this. They never saw it coming. What could they have done differently? What did they miss? God is completely just, so the screw-up can't be His- somehow, well-intentioned as they are, this has to be on them in some way." God tells them why they're walking out disappointed, though- He never knew them. There's all kinds of people doing things in the name of God, there's all kinds of people who call themselves Christians and truly believe their self-identification is true to reality. But out of those people, there's some who God knows and there's others to whom God will say "I never knew you."

Every time I see that passage, I think of the song "Knowing You" by Graham Kendrick. "Now my heart's desire is to know you more, to be found in You and known as Yours. To possess by faith what I could not earn, all surpassing gift of righteousness." That sounds like the heart's desire of the people God does know. And an attitude of ambivalence toward knowing Jesus probably describes the ones departing; the ones who, in spite of doing so much good in God's name, practiced lawlessness and were not known by Him.

The chorus, of course, starts out "Knowing you, Jesus, knowing you, there is no greater thing." It's all about knowing Jesus and being known by Him. I didn't really look into the passage that inspired this song until today, though. I always associated it most closely with the one you quoted from Matthew just based on my familiarity with it, but this is the one that actually inspired the song. It's Paul, in jail, awaiting execution.

"But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith— that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead."
Phillippians 3:7-11

I started putting some things in bold for emphasis, but it wasn't long before I put almost everything in bold. Primarily though, I take away a reiteration of what was said previously- it's all about knowing Jesus. The importance of that is all-surpassing. There's also the thing about possessing a righteousness that is through faith in Christ, and that's a really great part of the sweet deal where you know Jesus and He knows you. Whatever else is or isn't going on, knowing Jesus and being found in Him is what prevents God from turning from you and saying "I never knew you." If He does know you, that doesn't happen.

[thessalonian]

"And they'll know we are Christians by our love, by our love, yes they'll know we are Christians by our love."