Mystery Babylon

[ironmonk]

If the earth's entire population were reduced to a village of 100 people:

• 57 would be Asian
  
• 21 would be European
  
• 7 would be North American
  
• 7 would be South American
  
• 7 would be African
  
• 80 would live in substandard housing
  
• 50 would be malnourished
  
• 70 would be people of color
  
• 30 would be white
  
• 70 would be unable to read
  
• 66 would be a religion other than Christian
  
• 33 would be Christian
  
• 13 would be Catholic
  
• 1 would have a college education
  
• 80 percent of the entire village's wealth would be in the hands of six people - all citizens of the United States
  

Source: United Nations (via Church bulletin)

What country gets rich off the world... US is the mystery babylon... think of all the sins that are propagated as normal here in the US... All the sins crying out for vengence....

...just a thought.

God Bless, Love in Christ & Mary

ironmonk

[cmotherofpirl]

THis is why the endtimes are NOT near.

Look at all the people who have not heard the message of the Gospel!

[VanHooty]

I could make the same argument that the endtimes are near *because* so many people don't know the Gospel. Granted, I'm not one of those rapture freaks who will try to do so.

[cmotherofpirl]

Wouldn't work.

The endtimes don't come until the gospel is preached to the ends of the world.

[ironmonk]

I didn't say the end was near on this thread... My point is that the US is mystery babylon... I don't see the US falling anytime soon...

But I do think the end times are near.

Signs of the times... but we should all live like this is our last day. For we do not know if it will be.

The Gospel has been preached to all the ends of the earth... many have not accepted it.

God Bless,

ironmonk

[cmotherofpirl]

Apocalypse Not

By James Akin

Welcome to the year 2000. It's here. We finally made it. The year has arrived that many of us have been waiting our whole lives to see, and now we have to start learning to write "20" instead of "19" in front of everything. (Note to the year 2099: Make sure your software is set up well in advance to recognize the change in digits. It'll solve a lot of problems. Trust us. We know of what we speak.)

Now for the disappointing news. It's not only still the second millennium, it's also still the twentieth century. Those two things don't change until next year. But, in the meantime, we get the fun of pretending that we're living in the future since we now get to write "20" in front of everything.

How much of the future is there left? Not as much as there used to be. The future is a non-renewable resource, and "our salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed" (Rom. 13:11). One day we will simply run out of time, and the end of history will be upon us. "For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first" (1 Thess. 4:16).

Investigating Gods Prophetic Plan

Despite recent, kooky predictions about the end of time, there are genuinely apocalyptic events coming. But discerning them is a complex task requiring great caution if one is to avoid the traps sensationalists fall into.

The first thing you must do when investigating God's prophetic plan is to select the right resources. If you want to know the upcoming phases of the moon, you could go to an almanac. But if you want to know how the final drama of human history is going to play out, you've got only one source: divine revelation.

So don't obsess about any Native American calendars. Don't worry about whether the moon is in the seventh house or whether Jupiter is aligning with Mars. Ignore the deliberately vague astrological verses of Nostradamus. Reject what trance channelers and UFO "contactees" have said. Dispense with it all. Stick to God's word.

Even having resolved to do this, you must be careful to make sure that what you are looking to is really God's word. The 73 books of the canonical Scriptures, of course, are God's word. They constitute the written body of public revelation that has been passed down to us from the apostles. But God also at times gives individuals private revelations that must be considered as well.

The difficulty is that there are a great many false apparitions and false locutions occurring in the world today (and in recent history). How do you know what private revelations are authentic? The surest guide is whether the Church has approved them. As a general rule, I advise individuals not to place credence in a private revelation that has not yet been approved by the Church. The number of fakes is simply too high these days.

Does the Church move slowly in evaluating private revelations? Yes, and with good reason. It is too easy to damage the faith of individuals if something is approved that should not be, and we should not allow a desire for novelty to overwhelm the caution that must be exercised when evaluating a private revelation.

Even when an apparition or locution is authentic, there are dangers that must be avoided. One such danger is thinking that the texts of a private revelation are inspired in the same way that Scriptures is, such that everything in them can be taken as the word of God. Theologians recognize that private revelations are colored by the recipient's perceptions of the supernatural event he or she has experienced, and writings produced by such individuals cannot be placed on the same plane as Scripture.

A good illustration of why this is so, even in the case of an approved apparition, is found in the published "secret" of La Salette (see this month's "Chapter & Verse," 34-35).

Public revelation, such as found in Scripture, must take precedence over private revelation. Figure out what the public revelation means first, before integrating it with particular applications suggested in private revelations.

Many Prophecies Already Have Been Fulfilled

When interpreting prophecies in the Bible, one of the most common pitfalls is failure to recognize when a prophecy already has been fulfilled. There are many such prophecies in the Bible, but we often think they are speaking of events yet to come.

When Jesus says in Matthew 24:7 that "there will be famines and earthquakes in various places," many people have interpreted him to mean that there would be a rise in the global number of earthquakes. But that isn't what Jesus said. He said that there would be earthquakes in various places— not all over the world, not in an increasing trend, just some earthquakes in some places. A few short, sharp shocks were all that was necessary to fulfill that prediction, which is part of Jesus' point: We shouldn't be concerned when we hear of such things, for "all this is but the beginning of the birth pangs," "but the end is not yet" (vv. 8, 6).

In fact, the two most famous prophetic parts of the New Testament—the Olivet Discourse and the book of Revelation—are plagued by readers' tendencies to interpret them as referring to future events, when both have largely been fulfilled. I've had occasion before to write about their interpretation. If you want to read about the Olivet Discourse (so named because Jesus gave it on the Mount of Olives), see my piece "The Earthquake Generation" (This Rock, Feb. 1998, 12-17). If you want to read about Revelation, see "Hunting the Whore of Babylon, I-II" (This Rock, Sept. 1994, 21-24; Oct. 1994, 21-24). Here I will only summarize the results:

The Olivet Discourse and the book of Revelation are concerned principally with events in the first century leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. However, both contain material that also applies to the end of time. In the Olivet Discourse, for example, Matthew 25:31-46 applies unambiguously to the end of history. Likewise for Revelation 20:11-21:8. In both cases, though, most of the preceding material applies directly to events in the first century.

This is not to say that it does not also have an indirect application to events near the Second Coming. One of the things you find in studying biblical prophecy is that certain patterns recur. I call them "prophetic archetypes." Take the archetype of the Wicked King, a foreign persecutor of God's people Israel, who is allowed to triumph over them for a time because of their sins. This scriptural archetype occurs repeatedly, whether in the person of Pharaoh, Nebuchadnezzar, Caesar, or the Antichrist.

I strongly suspect that, in the final run up to the end of time, many of the parts of the Olivet Discourse and book of Revelation that have been fulfilled already will repeat, and so these passages that apply directly to events in the first century also will apply indirectly to events near the end of time.

What To Expect At The End Of Time

T.S. Eliot was wrong: It's going to end with a bang, not a whimper. As the Catechism of the Catholic Church explains: "God's triumph over the revolt of evil will take the form of the Last Judgment after the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world" (CCC 677).

inDouche, things will have been tumultuous for some time before the end comes. Among other things, there will be a tremendous persecution of the Church, which "will enter the glory of the kingdom only through [a] final Passover, when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection" (ibid.). This will be a trial so fierce that the Church will be persecuted almost to the point of extinction, only to be rescued at the last minute by the Second Coming of Christ.

One of the most overlooked signs that the Second Coming is approaching is the corporate conversion of the Jewish people. This is something that Paul is very clear about. In Romans 11, he sketches a paradigm according to which, after the First Coming of Christ, the Jewish people as a body (though not every individual) rejected the Messiah; that the gospel might turn and bring salvation to the Gentiles. However, when "the full number of the Gentiles [has] come in," the gospel will turn back to the Jewish people and as a body (though not necessarily every individual) they will accept the Messiah.

Paul links this corporate conversion to the end of the world, for he mentions the resurrection of the dead: "If their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead?" (v. 15). So when we see massive numbers of Jewish conversions to Christ, that is a sign we are nearing the end.

In 2 Thessalonians 2, Paul gives a number of other signs that the Second Coming is approaching. He writes because apparently some in the Thessalonian Church had received a fake Pauline epistle that said the day of the Lord had arrived. Thus he told them "not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come" (v. 2).

He then laid out a number of signs that would precede the end. The first was this: "Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first" (v. 3a).

The Greek for "the rebellion" here is he apostasia—better translated "the apostasy"—a distinct event consisting of a massive turning away from the Christian faith.

Paul speaks of it elsewhere as well. He tells us, "Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons" (1 Tim. 4:1). "For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths" (2 Tim. 4:3-4; cf. 3:1-5).

Other New Testament writers also appear to refer to this great apostasy (2 Pet. 3:3, Jude 18), and the Lord himself speaks of it when he asks, "When the Son of man comes, will he find faith on earth?" (Luke 18:8).

What will those who fall away from Christianity be falling away to? In the New Testament, the idea of falling away from Christianity would mean a return to either paganism or Judaism. The fact that at the end-time the Jewish people will be converting to Christ indicates that it will not be Judaism for which many Christians leave. This suggests a new paganism will be their destination.

There may be some intermediate steps involved. In the apostasy, people may fall away to other religious options—atheism, agnosticism, the New Age movement, or even religions that don't yet exist—but they will no longer consider themselves Christians, and eventually a new form of paganism will develop and become dominant in Europe.

Why do I say that? Because of the next sign Paul mentions: the appearance of "the man of lawlessness": "That day will not come, unless . . . the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition."

This individual is often identified with the Antichrist whom John talks about, as one who denies the incarnation of Christ (2 John 7). The identification is not completely certain, but it is the standard interpretation.

The man of lawlessness is often identified with the "beast from the sea" in Revelation 13. Now, the beast from the sea was one of the early Roman emperors—most likely Nero (see "The Beast in Revelation," This Rock, Dec. 1998, 29). That does not mean that there will not be a Nero-like individual at the end of time. I expect there will be. It will be one of those double fulfillments I mentioned earlier.

There is good reason to link the future, emperor-like individual with Paul's man of lawlessness. Paul says this man will do something that some of the Roman emperors were known for: demand that others worship him as a god. He tells us the man of sin is one "who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship" (v. 4a). That is why I identify the apostate religion to come as a revived paganism: Worship of the head of state as a deity is a hallmark of paganism.

What the man of lawlessness will probably do is a lot like what the mad Emperor Caligula did in the first century: He proclaimed himself to have been re-born as a god in this life, comparing himself with Jupiter, the king of the gods. Yet he did not deny the existence of other, lesser gods. (He used to hold "conversations" with various Roman gods and had his sister Drusilla officially deified after her death, for example).

Later, when Caligula went mad and proclaimed himself a god, he completely miscalculated the passion of the Jews for monotheism and proposed putting an idol of himself in the Temple at Jerusalem—an act that would have certainly ignited a war. Fortunately, a delegation of Jews including Philo of Alexandria was able to dissuade him.

The fact that the man of lawlessness will exalt himself "against every so-called god" does not mean he will preach a new form of "me-monotheism." It's hard to get people to worship you as a god unless they have degraded religious notions, such as the belief in many, finite gods. This makes the idea of a deified human more thinkable (look at how Mormons have exploited that concept).

Among the things Paul says the man of lawlessness will do is to so exalt himself "that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God" (v. 4b). To a first-century Jew such as Paul, this could mean only one thing: The man of lawlessness will present himself at some point to be worshiped in the Jewish temple at Jerusalem.

Many have tried to interpret "the temple of God" as the Church, but this is an anachronistic reading. We are obviously talking about a physical temple—not a mystical or spiritual one—because it is the kind of temple in which one can take a seat and exhibit oneself. Since Christians have no central physical temple (not even St. Peter's Basilica counts as that), and certainly didn't have one in the first century, we must understand the phrase "the temple of God" as it would have been understood in the first-century: a reference to the Jerusalem Temple.

Why would Jews allow a pagan ruler to proclaim himself as God (or as "a god"—the Greek allows both readings) in their Temple? Who says they will have any choice in the matter? You see, this kind of thing has precedents.

First, Antiochus Epiphanes—a pagan conqueror trying to stamp out the Jewish religion—placed an idol of Jupiter on the altar in the Jewish Temple and sacrificed pigs to it. (This was one of the fulfillments of Daniel's "abomination of desolation," 1 Macc. 1:54, though not the only one; cf. Matt. 24:15.)

Later, in the first century, when the Roman emperor Caligula went mad and proclaimed himself a god, he proposed putting an idol of himself in the Temple at Jerusalem—an act that certainly would have ignited a war with the Jews. A delegation of Jews, including Philo of Alexandria, was able to dissuade him.

All of these are foreshadowings of what the man of sin will do when he arrives. But there is a complication: The Temple has been destroyed, just as Jesus had prophesied (Matt. 24:1-2). So it will have to be rebuilt before the man of lawlessness carries out his part in the final drama.

There is a further complication: Today the Moslem Dome of the Rock occupies the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. A war likely would start if Israel tried to tear down the Dome and build a temple, or even it tried to build a new temple alongside the Dome.

How will the Temple be rebuilt? There is a fascinating clue: According to many of the Church Fathers (see This Rock, May 1995, 36-39), the Antichrist will be a political ruler who will enable the Jewish people to rebuild the Temple.

There's even a foreshadowing of that in history: The last pagan emperor, Julian the Apostate, wished to discourage Christianity and promote a return to paganism. However, as part of his program to try to lure people away from Christianity, he agreed to allow the Jews to rebuild the temple, hoping that Jewish Christians would apostatize and go back to worshiping at their ancestral temple.

All the preparations were made, the building supplies were assembled, and work began. Christians may have thought, "This is the end. Julian is the Antichrist, and the temple is going up." But then there was an earthquake and a fire, the plan came to nothing, and Julian died shortly afterward.

Something like that may happen in the future. It may take a leader as strong as a Roman emperor to allow the Jewish people to rebuild a temple without it being destroyed by opponents. And, after its completion, this leader may turn around and say, "Okay, I let you rebuild your temple. Now worship me in it as a token of thanks."

Things will not be going swimmingly for the remaining Christians in the end-time era, either. Those who do not give in to persecution and worship the man of lawlessness will be imprisoned and martyred. The last pope(s) will head the underground Church, just as Peter did in the first century. It will be this great persecution that will drive the Church almost to the point of extinction before Christ returns.

When Christ returns, he will make short work of the man of lawlessness. Paul tells us "the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of his mouth and destroy him by his appearing and his coming" (2 Thess. 2:8). Where this will occur is also indicated in Scripture: Israel.

Right now—in the year 2000—we are in the millennium mentioned in Revelation 20:1-10, when the devil is bound in such a way that he cannot deceive the nations by preventing the spread of the gospel. However, at the end of the millennium he will be unloosed and again be able to deceive the nations, leading to the great apostasy (Rev. 20:7-8a).

When that happens, John tells us, he will "deceive the nations which are at the four corners of the earth, that is, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. And they marched up over the broad earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city; but fire came down from heaven and consumed them" (vv. 8-9).

"Gog and Magog" are an allusion to Ezekiel 38, where Gog is the symbolic name of a conquering prince of a land symbolically called Magog. In Ezekiel, Gog attacks Israel but is defeated. In Revelation, the allusion indicates that Israel will be attacked again by a foreign prince (likely the man of lawlessness) and his army. They will surround "the camp of the saints" (i.e., the Jewish Christians defending the area) and "the beloved city" (i.e., Jerusalem), and that is when Christ will return and destroy the invaders by the force of his coming. "And the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air" (1 Thess. 4:l6-17). Then the devil will be thrown into hell (Rev. 20:10), the present heaven and earth will pass away (v. 11), the dead will be raised, (vv. 12-13 a), and the final judgment will take place (vv. 13b-15).

How Close Are We?

The perennial question of how close we are to the end is impossible to answer with precision. Christ himself said, "Of that day and hour no one knows" (Matt. 24:36). The matter is complicated by the fact that, when the final end game is in motion, events may proceed rapidly inDouche.

However, it is possible to make some educated surmises. Certain pieces of the puzzle aren't in place yet—in particular, the corporate conversion of the Jewish people, the great apostasy of the Gentiles, and the dominance of neo-paganism.

There is anecdotal evidence of a rise in the number of Jewish conversions, but Israel as a state is still hostile to Christianity. There has been a demonstrable weakening of the faith in Europe, with more people considering themselves non-Christian. But most Europeans maintain a Christian identity in some form. (Actually, there have never been more Christians alive than there are now: With two billion Christians, we are far from a global apostasy.) There has also been a rise in the number of neo-pagans in the last few decades, but at this point neo-paganism is a fringe phenomenon that attracts more laughs than converts.

In the natural course of events, I don't see how the end game could unfold for at least a century. Of course, God could put things together, miraculously, for it to happen sooner, but judging from the way God tends to work through long-term societal trends, we are probably at least a few centuries away.

And it might be longer still. There have been "near misses" in the past, where God allowed a prophetic foreshadowing to occur. Remember Julian the Apostate. Since the time he almost allowed the temple to be rebuilt we have had another 1,600 years of Church history. That kind of thing can happen again, and it can happen many times over. God has given the Church 2,000 years of life. He could give it another 10,000.

What is more important than being concerned with the end of the world is that each of us be concerned with the end of his own life, an event considerably closer. For, as Paul warns us in Romans 14:10 and 12, "We shall all stand before the judgment seat of God. So each of us shall give account of himself to God."

Recent Failed Prophecies

In the 1970s Hal Lindsey's book The Late, Great Planet Earth had many thousands of people thinking the end was upon us, and the Second Coming would take place no later than the next decade. In 1988, Edgar Whisenant gave us Eighty-Eight Reasons Why the Rapture Will Be in 1988. When that didn't work out, he gave us The Final Shout Rapture Report (1989), explaining why he had been off by a little bit. And in his book 1994, Harold Camping explained why that was the year the last things would come to fruition.

Not only have Protestants like Lindsey, Whisenant, and Camping jumped the gun, so have New Agers. In the early part of this century, famous clairvoyant Edgar Cayce claimed there would be a disastrous shift of the North and South poles in 1998, ushering in a new golden era. John Mini, a Bay Area acupuncturist and New Age writer, predicted that August 13, 1999, would be "the day of destiny" according to the Aztec calendar, which supposedly ran out on that date. (According to Mini, "We hadn't heard about August 13, 1999, before because the Catholic Church did everything in their [sic] power to eradicate the Aztec civilization and erase the legend of August 13, 1999, from our memories forever.")

On the Catholic side, the Italian priest Fr. Stephano Gobbi claimed to have received a revelation from the Virgin Mary concerning a period beginning in 1988: "In this period of ten years there will come to completion that fullness of time which was pointed out to you by me [Mary], beginning with La Salette all the way to my most recent and present apparitions In this period of ten years there will come to completion the time of the great tribulation, which has been foretold to you in Holy Scripture, before the second coming of Jesus In this period of ten years all the secrets which I have revealed to some of my children will come to pass and all events which have been foretold to you by me will take place" (Message #389 d, f, and h; emphasis in the original).

The ten-year period ended and the things mentioned in the prophecy don't seem to have happened.

Failures To Come

There are more predictions coming down the pike that are going to fail.

For a start, some might think, "Hey, this is the year 2000; Jesus is 2,000 years old—maybe he will come back this year!"

Maybe, but probably not. The Son may come back any time the Father sends him, but there is a good reason why it won't coincide with Jesus' 2,000th birthday: That date has already passed.

The current system of years was developed by a monk named Dionysius Exiguus (Dennis the Short), who lived in the 500s. He tried to calculate how many years it had been since Christ was born—and he was almost right. But not quite. Our best evidence indicates that there is an error in the calendar and that Jesus was not born in A.D. 1 (there is no year zero, remember) but between two and eight years earlier. Jesus' 2,000th birthday passed unnoticed some time in the 1990s.

But the age of Jesus isn't the only thing tempting some to view the year 2000 as a year of doom. There's a rare astronomical configuration that will happen on May 5. The sun, the moon, and the five planets visible to the naked eye will all be within 26 degrees of each other in the sky. They won't be "lined up" as you're likely to hear in the press, but they will be closer to each other in the sky than they have been for quite some time.

"Why the big deal?" you ask. It goes back to The Jupiter Effect, a book published in 1974 by John Gribbin and Stephen Plagemann, which postulated that when the planets get together in certain combinations they cause earthquakes. The idea that the tidal forces generated by the sun and the moon could cause earthquakes might not be so unreasonable, but the idea that distant planets could do it—even big ones like Jupiter—won't hold water, as shown by a similar, non-earthquake-producing alignment in 1982.

In New Age circles, one of the best-known "days of doom" is December 22, 2012, when the Mayan calendar is scheduled to (gasp!) run out . . . before it does what all calendars do: start over. What is happening is the end of the thirteenth Mayan "Great Cycle" (a period a little over 5,000 years long) and the beginning of the fourteenth Great Cycle. The change over no more signifies "the end of time" than the change of a millennium on the Gregorian calendar.

James Akin is a senior apologist at Catholic Answers and a contributing editor of This Rock.

[MC Just]

Personally I believe the Us is Mystery Babylon. I mean come on, has there ever been a nation as powerful as this? As Blasphemous as this? As sinful as this?? I swear every nation in the world lives here. That's exactly the description the bible tells us of.

[MC Just]

Sorry if I sounded harsh on that. I've been agrivated with this country for some time now.

[Jake Huether]

It dosen't distinguish whether or not the "non-Christians" had actually heard the Gospel and rejected it. As I understand it, the Gospel has been preached to the most of the entire world.

Edit Note:

The Gospel has been preached to all the ends of the earth... many have not accepted it.

You beat me to it.

I wanted to comment thought on one thing. Catholics ARE Christians. This can be seen simply by adding the non-Christian and Christian percent totalls, but I just wanted to make it crystal clear. That is to say, 13/33 X 100 is the percentage of Christians that are Catholic Christians. :)

[electricdisk]

IronMonk... I (have known?) that the us IS the mystery of Babylon for a while.... Not something I can put my finger on (kind of like spiritual) but I can base it on the following text...

Standing afar off for fear of her torments, saying: Alas! alas! that great city, Babylon, that mighty city: for in one hour is thy judgment come.

18:11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her: for no man shall buy their merchandise any more.

18:12 Merchandise of gold and silver and precious stones: and of pearls and fine linen and purple and silk and scarlet: and all thyine wood: and all manner of vessels of ivory: and all manner of vessels of precious stone and of brass and of iron and of marble:

18:13 And cinnamon and odours and ointment and frankincense and wine and oil and fine flour and wheat and beasts and sheep and horses and chariots: and slaves and souls of men.

18:14 And the fruits of the desire of thy soul are departed from thee: and all fat and goodly things are perished from thee. And they shall find them no more at all.

18:15 The merchants of these things, who were made rich, shall stand afar off from her, for fear of her torments, weeping and mourning,

18:16 And saying: Alas! alas! that great city, which was clothed with fine linen and purple and scarlet and was gilt with gold and precious stones and pearls.

18:17 For in one hour are so great riches come to nought. And every shipmaster and all that sail into the lake, and mariners, and as many as work in the sea, stood afar off,

18:18 And cried, seeing the place of her burning, saying: What city is like to this great city?

18:19 And they cast dust upon their heads and cried, weeping and mourning, saying: Alas! alas! that great city, wherein all were made rich, that had ships at sea, by reason of her prices. For, in one hour she is made desolate.

18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven and ye holy apostles and prophets. For God hath judged your judgment on her.

*************

But I believe these things are 100% CONDITIONAL....

100% CONDITIONAL....

CONDITIONAL....

Period.

[yiannii]

what is rapture? and do we Catholics have a different understandsing of it than to the protestant's understanding of rapture?

[Dave]

Catholics don't believe in the Rapture.

RAPTURE

The teaching that the church, in whole or in part, will be caught up to heaven before the reign of the "man of sin", (anti-Christ), did not appear in church history until the early part of the nineteenth century.

From "Through Tribulation", by H. A. Baker, printed by Calvary Books & Tracts, Inc., 3940 24th Ave., Minneapolis, Minn. 55406.

In March 1830, a woman in Richard Baxter's church in London, England prophesied that the Lord Jesus might come anytime. And that true believers in Him might any day be caught up by "translation" to heaven. She was part of the Irvingite Movement. John Darby and the group known as the "Plymouth Bretheren" from Plymouth, England incorporated this prophecy into their teaching, even though they were not connected with the In our day, Charles Scofield, one of the Darby line and closely associated with the "Bretheren", has perhaps done more than any other one man to propagate the escape-tribulation, any moment, secret "rapture" teaching!

The teaching of the Rapture is relatively new to Christian theology, it has only been around for about 1 century, as compared to other Church teachings that have been with us since the time of Christ!

Of course, the idea of the Rapture - that is Christians being pulled out of suffering and danger is attractive. Who wouldn't want to know that if they join some group they can escape all or at least some suffering!

Bishop Fulton Scheen says that any theology that denys the cross of Christ in our own personal lives is a theology of Satan!

The Rapture - escape suffering theology, fits right in with we are saved by Faith alone - that is Faith (belief in Jesus) without that Faith changing our lives in any way. Which some would teach means, that once you accept "Jesus as your Lord and Savior", you can do whatever you want for the rest of your life, including sin, and still get to heaven ! What a deal!

But that is not what Christ teaches!

The early Catholic Church taught:

Mark 8:34 And calling the multitude together with his disciples, he said to them: If any man will follow me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.

1Peter 2:21 For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example that you should follow in his footsteps.

The main verse the can be used to discredit the Rapture would be:

John 17:15 I do not ask that you take them out of the world but that you keep them from the evil one.

Source: One Truth

Edited August 19, 2003 by davejc29201

[Cure of Ars]

No wonder why the Muslims hate the U.S. so much if we are Babylon. :ph34r:

[MC Just]

I can't watch tv, or go anywhere without being morally offended. I noticed that when I was living in Massachusetts, and I see it now in Texas. Whether it's women who dont have enough clothes on or a punk walking down the street swearing his mouth off. G*d darn this, G darn (beaver dam)that, go to the grocery store and there are magazines everywhere offering sin. I like walk everywhere trying to avert my eyes from everything. It's horrible sometimes. I hear some men saying disgusting things about women, I once heard a guy brag about how he raped a girl. (you know the type of guys you hear in the rap vidoes) It's everywhere in the us. I'm just tired of being offended everywhere I go. I now realise why it's so bad. Pope Paul IV warned about it and Pope John Paul II calls this the culture of death. I always think of what the book of revelation says:

"Depart from her, 4 my people, so as not to take part in her sins and receive a share in her plagues,

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for her sins are piled up to the sky, and God remembers her crimes.

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Pay her back as she has paid others. Pay her back double for her deeds. Into her cup pour double what she poured.

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To the measure of her boasting and wantonness repay her in torment and grief; for she said to herself, 'I sit enthroned as queen; I am no widow, and I will never know grief.'

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Therefore, her plagues will come in one day, pestilence, grief, and famine; she will be consumed by fire. For mighty is the Lord God who judges her."

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The kings of the earth who had intercourse with her in their wantonness will weep and mourn over her when they see the smoke of her pyre.

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They will keep their distance for fear of the torment inflicted on her, and they will say: "Alas, alas, great city, Babylon, mighty city. In one hour your judgment has come."

[MC Just]

Depart from Her!, I know these verse are talking about the whore of babylon, but for some reason those verse always pop up in my mind when I am talking about usa.

Edited August 19, 2003 by Mc-Just†