Atheists Sue Over Ground Zero Cross

[mortify]

Atheists need to get a life

[Jesus_lol]

I dunno if i am alone here, but how exactly is it a miracle that there was a cross shaped piece of rubble?

i've been in construction for a while, and buildings are basically chock full of crosses, beams at intersecting right angles.

now if there was a star of david, that would have been really noteworthy, imo

[Ice_nine]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1312437314' post='2281381']
I dunno if i am alone here, but how exactly is it a miracle that there was a cross shaped piece of rubble?

i've been in construction for a while, and buildings are basically chock full of crosses, beams at intersecting right angles.

now if there was a star of david, that would have been really noteworthy, imo
[/quote]
Agreed. Did the article say anyone believed it to be a miracle? It's been a long time since I read it.

Seems silly for atheists to whine about it. Christianity is a substantial part of American culture, like it or not. From an aesthetic perspective it's probably kind of ugly looking though and I would like the symbol of Christianity to be a tad bit more artful, but whatever there are more troubling things for me to beesh about

[BG45]

[url="http://www.atheists.org/press_releases/atheists_file_suit_to_block_wtc_memoiral_cross"]A little more.[/url]

I looked for that press release after Jon Stewart was talking about how much they're overreacting tonight on The Daily Show. In particular he played a news channel reading this part of the statement:
[quote][font="Arial"][size="2"][color="#000000"]"The WTC cross has become a Christian icon. It has been blessed
by so-called holy men and presented as a reminder that their god,
who couldn't be bothered to stop the Muslim terrorists or prevent
3,000 people from being killed in his name, cared only enough to
bestow upon us some rubble that resembles a cross. It's a truly
ridiculous assertion."

Mr. Silverman added, "This cross is now a part of the official WTC
memorial. No other religions or philosophies will be honored. It will
just be a Christian icon, in the middle of OUR memorial. As a public
accommodation, the memorial must allow us (and all other religious
philosophies) to include our own display of equal size inside the
museum, or not include the cross. Equality is an all-or-nothing
deal."[/color][/size][/font][/quote]

Apparently the Jews and Muslims don't count as other religions...

[4588686]

[i]"The WTC cross has become a Christian icon. It has been blessed
by so-called holy men and presented as a reminder that their god,
who couldn't be bothered to stop the Muslim terrorists or prevent
3,000 people from being killed in his name, cared only enough to
bestow upon us some rubble that resembles a cross. It's a truly
ridiculous assertion."[/i]


What a Johnsonville brat.

[RezaMikhaeil]

I think that the biggest part of this story you guys are missing. These atheists have a right to their opinion. You may not agree with it but this is part of our country, debating such issues. You might feel that these atheists are being "offensive" but honestly, it's not nearly as offensive as the rhetoric coming from the religious right. They are making Christianity look very bad because of the way in which they are conducting themselves. Reciently Fox News had an atheist on their program to discuss this and the responses that hit their website were just down right disgusting.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjmLnC3T9Ds&feature=feedu_more"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjmLnC3T9Ds&feature=feedu_more[/url] - Video reading the comments, many too vulgar to share here. One of them said, "I love Jesus and the Cross and if you don't, I hope someone rapes you!"

At the end of the day, Atheists come out onto morally. Not only with their constitutional right to object but also in public appearance.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='RezaMikhaeil' timestamp='1312518978' post='2281760']
At the end of the day, Atheists come out onto morally. Not only with their constitutional right to object but also in public appearance.
[/quote]
I'm not really sure what this means, but I don't think I agree with it.

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1312555232' post='2281897']
I'm not really sure what this means, but I don't think I agree with it.
[/quote]

You don't know who atheists come out ontop morally and constitutionally? Re-read what I wrote...ah forget it, if you didn't get it the first time that will be pointless. Allow me to 'try' and break it down further.

First, if it's a public sphere and not privately owned by a Christian. Christians have no right to put a construct a cross. If it is owned by a Christian, constitutionally they have a right to do whatever they wish with the property but there is also state and local laws that might object if it's unreasonable. IE: If I own a piece of property in downtown NY, and I wanted to put a gigantic globe. They may object because it may devalue other people's property, may be a safety violation, etc. I'm guessing that the particular Christians that want to put this giant cross up do not own the property and if they do, their constuction will violate safety codes. Particularly if it "magically created itself".

Second, Atheists are engaging in the debate respectfully. Many Christians on the other hand are embarassing themselves and their faith by saying such dispicable words like, "I love Jesus and the Cross and if you don't, I hope someone rapes you!" All what these do is show their own immaturity but also point a pretty clear picture at what kind of people they are. I guess the love of Christ hasn't quite penetrated their own hearts, so nobody else is going to care to hear about their faith either.

[Winchester]

[quote name='RezaMikhaeil' timestamp='1312572201' post='2282026']
Christians have no right to put a construct a cross.
[/quote]
I used to love my Construct-A-Cross.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='RezaMikhaeil' timestamp='1312572201' post='2282026']
You don't know who atheists come out ontop morally and constitutionally? Re-read what I wrote...ah forget it, if you didn't get it the first time that will be pointless. Allow me to 'try' and break it down further.[/quote]
1. Thanks for insulting my intelligence. Ad hominem duly noted.
[quote]
First, if it's a public sphere and not privately owned by a Christian. Christians have no right to put a construct a cross. If it is owned by a Christian, constitutionally they have a right to do whatever they wish with the property but there is also state and local laws that might object if it's unreasonable. IE: If I own a piece of property in downtown NY, and I wanted to put a gigantic globe. They may object because it may devalue other people's property, may be a safety violation, etc. I'm guessing that the particular Christians that want to put this giant cross up do not own the property and if they do, their constuction will violate safety codes. Particularly if it "magically created itself".[/quote]
2. Where in the constitution does it say that religious symbols should not be displayed on public property? And don't feed me bs "progressive" precedents like Allegheny County vs. ACLU. Spoiler alert: what the constitution says is that the government should not endorse any particular religion. Having an independent group - one which represents the majority of people in the country, even - erect a symbol, and allowing other disparate groups the opportunity to do otherwise does not violate the Constitution. Also, here's a fun tidbit to chew on: many atheists claim that they are not a religious group, but rather embrace a lack of religion. Why does an atheist group care what religious groups - which they are not a part of - do with their symbols of their fairytales? I mean, it's really not that hard to ignore a rusty old lowercase "t".
[quote]
Second, Atheists are engaging in the debate respectfully. Many Christians on the other hand are embarassing themselves and their faith by saying such dispicable words like, "I love Jesus and the Cross and if you don't, I hope someone rapes you!" All what these do is show their own immaturity but also point a pretty clear picture at what kind of people they are. I guess the love of Christ hasn't quite penetrated their own hearts, so nobody else is going to care to hear about their faith either.
[/quote]
You're right. I've never met a rude atheist, especially on the intertubes.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='RezaMikhaeil' timestamp='1312572201' post='2282026']

Second, Atheists are engaging in the debate respectfully. Many Christians on the other hand are embarassing themselves and their faith by saying such dispicable words like, "I love Jesus and the Cross and if you don't, I hope someone rapes you!" All what these do is show their own immaturity but also point a pretty clear picture at what kind of people they are. I guess the love of Christ hasn't quite penetrated their own hearts, so nobody else is going to care to hear about their faith either.
[/quote]


That first sentence is one of the funniest things i have ever read here.

the rest of that paragraph is actually pretty much true. but, other wise your premise of christians being all arseholes and athiests being kind and respectful , is based on an extremely limited scope anecdotal evidence. Lots of Christians are being kind and respectful, and lots of athiests are being judgemental pricks, as well as the other way around.

[BG45]

[quote name='RezaMikhaeil' timestamp='1312518978' post='2281760']
I think that the biggest part of this story you guys are missing. These atheists have a right to their opinion.
[/quote]

I've yet to see anyone say that.


[quote name='RezaMikhaeil' timestamp='1312572201' post='2282026']
Second, Atheists are engaging in the debate respectfully. Many Christians on the other hand are embarassing themselves and their faith by saying such dispicable words like, "I love Jesus and the Cross and if you don't, I hope someone rapes you!" All what these do is show their own immaturity but also point a pretty clear picture at what kind of people they are. I guess the love of Christ hasn't quite penetrated their own hearts, so nobody else is going to care to hear about their faith either.
[/quote]


Yes, respect. That's what they're being when they say:
[i]"The WTC cross has become a Christian icon. It has been blessed[/i]
[i]by so-called holy men and presented as a reminder that their god,[/i]
[i]who couldn't be bothered to stop the Muslim terrorists or prevent[/i]
[i]3,000 people from being killed in his name, cared only enough to[/i]
[i]bestow upon us some rubble that resembles a cross. It's a truly[/i]
[i]ridiculous assertion."[/i]


Meanwhile, with all due respect, you continue to do exactly as you have accused others of doing, by cherry picking commentary by Christians rather than acting with respect. No one represents a group on a whole, Christian or Atheist. In this case there are other religious symbols going up as well, such as a Jewish prayer shawl, donated by the family of a victim.