Homosexuality

[mortify]

[quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1312401145' post='2280988']
Well first I must say I'm impressed with the research. Secondly I must say

EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

OK now that I got that out of my system. There's a couple of problems here Mortify. First just because a theologian says something, it doesn't mean that it is a magisterial teaching. Secondly, I have a problem with Fr Jones definition of sodomy. One it goes against the traditional definition and B. Its horribly sexist. If the only means of something being sodomy is the loss of seminal fluid, then by his logic, two women would never commit a sin that cries to heaven. And quite frankly, that just doesn't make sense
[/quote]

jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff),

You're right in saying the statement of a moral theologian doesn't necessarily reflect magisterial teaching. However Fr Jone's manual is rather renowned, and I would be really surprised if a part of it actually contradicted Church teaching. And we have to keep in mind that his manual was written pre-Vatican II, you know... those uber conservative and "prude" times... so the fact that he recognizes anal sex need not be sinful, is rather significant.

As for your belief that his definition of sodomy contradicts traditional teaching, the burden of proof is on you my friend.

And as for lesbianism not being a sin that cries out to heaven, thats an interesting point. Not sure where that would fall. But with regards to sexism, not sure it matters. Afterall, we're born with original sin at the fault of a man, and not a woman

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='ardillacid' timestamp='1311829645' post='2277400']
Yes, there was a space in between my first word, so I wasn't really speaking at you, don't you know? Don't take it all personally, that is such a canadien thing to do.

Yeah, flooping interesting canadiens, I know them. I was amazed to see how offended candiens get when i suggest that America has lower taxes, but then thousands of them would flock to Grand Forks on the weekends to shop. amazing

Since every post you've had in the last two weeks have been rebukes for other people's perceived immaturity. "oh my goodness (don't blasphemy) ERAMIGHT DOESN'T AGREE WITH DAN SAVAGE HE IS A HOMOPHOBE, oh my goodness (don't blasphemy) ANYONE ON THE FAR RIGHT AGREES WITH A TERRORIST IN NORWAY THEY ARE KILLERS"

actually, you and bill maher sound almost exactly alike. actually, now that i think about it, I think you even steal his phrases. But I can hear him anytime i want. which makes you superfluous.
[/quote]
Too close for missiles...I'm switching to guns.

[Groo the Wanderer]

i like to kiss girls
my daughter and my wife, y'all
thought i would just share...

[Jaime]

[quote name='mortify' timestamp='1312428521' post='2281277']

jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff) (the artist formerly known as hot stuff),

You're right in saying the statement of a moral theologian doesn't necessarily reflect magisterial teaching. However Fr Jone's manual is rather renowned, and I would be really surprised if a part of it actually contradicted Church teaching. And we have to keep in mind that his manual was written pre-Vatican II, you know... those uber conservative and "prude" times... so the fact that he recognizes anal sex need not be sinful, is rather significant.

As for your belief that his definition of sodomy contradicts traditional teaching, the burden of proof is on you my friend.

And as for lesbianism not being a sin that cries out to heaven, thats an interesting point. Not sure where that would fall. But with regards to sexism, not sure it matters. Afterall, we're born with original sin at the fault of a man, and not a woman
[/quote]


Well would you be surprised if some of the teachings by St Thomas Aquinas contradict Church teaching? He's still one of the doctors of the Church.

And as far as original sin goes, you have to be careful in your understanding. The name Adam translates into "All of mankind" so the understanding of the story is that Adam's sin is all of our sin. After all, the only woman who was full of grace since then was Mary.

[southern california guy]

[quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1312659958' post='2282526']


Well would you be surprised if some of the teachings by St Thomas Aquinas contradict Church teaching? He's still one of the doctors of the Church.

And as far as original sin goes, you have to be careful in your understanding. The name Adam translates into "All of mankind" so the understanding of the story is that Adam's sin is all of our sin. After all, the only woman who was full of grace since then was Mary.
[/quote]

So Hot Stuff, what exactly are you trying to say? Are you trying to argue homosexuality is okay by the Bible (Old and New Testament)? Because that seems to be the gist of what you're saying, yet you haven't come right out and said it. So as a Catholic do you approve of homosexuality?

[Deus te Amat]

[quote name='southern california guy' timestamp='1312679229' post='2282674']

So Hot Stuff, what exactly are you trying to say? Are you trying to argue homosexuality is okay by the Bible (Old and New Testament)? Because that seems to be the gist of what you're saying, yet you haven't come right out and said it. So as a Catholic do you approve of homosexuality?[/quote]



I don't follow. Where did hot stuff imply his heretical beliefs?

[Deus te Amat]

He's simply pointing out that sometimes, theologians, albeit with the best of intentions, are simply wrong. Aquinas was not excluded from that club. I can point out some of his theological errors, if you wish.

[missionseeker]

[quote name='southern california guy' timestamp='1312679229' post='2282674']

So Hot Stuff, what exactly are you trying to say? Are you trying to argue homosexuality is okay by the Bible (Old and New Testament)? Because that seems to be the gist of what you're saying, yet you haven't come right out and said it. So as a Catholic do you approve of homosexuality?
[/quote]




Where on earth are you getting that from???

[southern california guy]

I apologize jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff) I misunderstood.. This whole thing gets confusing...

Edited August 7, 2011 by southern california guy

[Deus te Amat]

Wait, what? Did you read his posts? I got something completely different out of it (although, I think he mixed up heterosexual and homosexual in the last sentence of the first post you quoted).

For example, in the last quote, he was showing mortify how that theologian is in error by revealing the illogic of the argument, as it would mean that a lesbian couple is not sinning. He is arguing in defense of heterosexual unions, not against. Please read that post again more carefully.

[southern california guy]

[quote name='Deus_te_Amat' timestamp='1312690310' post='2282809']
Wait, what? Did you read his posts? I got something completely different out of it (although, I think he mixed up heterosexual and homosexual in the last sentence of the first post you quoted).

For example, in the last quote, he was showing mortify how that theologian is in error by revealing the illogic of the argument, as it would mean that a lesbian couple is not sinning. He is arguing in defense of heterosexual unions, not against. Please read that post again more carefully.
[/quote]

Okay you're right. I responded too quickly. It's confusing though. I became confused about who wrote what.

[Deus te Amat]

Please be more careful when accusing a devoted Catholic of heresy.

[southern california guy]

Maybe I'll just take a break from posting and just read posts. jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff) was actually arguing on the exact same side as me and I completely misinterpreted what he was saying. That's a hazard of reading through posts too quickly.

jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff) I apologize. I wish I could erase some of dumb posts.

[Groo the Wanderer]

wanna see a neat trick?