Homosexuality

[Luigi]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1311652874' post='2276062']
Hi

In my opinion--not answering your question on behalf of Debra, just answering the question you posed since I found it interesting-- is that homosexuals--and homosexuality on the whole-- ought not to be viewed in the same moral light as abortion, or Hitler, or the Rwandaan genocide. That would be a good start.
[/quote]

I don't think it is. Not by most people, and definitely not by Catholic theology or teaching. You are comparing it to murder on some pretty vast scales, and the Church just defines it as a moral disorder based on an inappropriate object.

But I don't think that means we necessarily want to legalize it, either.

[kujo]

[quote name='Luigi' timestamp='1311653238' post='2276066']
I don't think it is. Not by most people, and definitely not by Catholic theology or teaching. You are comparing it to murder on some pretty vast scales, and the Church just defines it as a moral disorder based on an inappropriate object.

But I don't think that means we necessarily want to legalize it, either.
[/quote]

Yet, it has been compared countless times on PM to all of those things. Go look through all the various threads on the subject that have cropped up over the last month or so. But do yourself a favor--only read the posts by Socrates, Havok, Papist and Nihil. That quartet seems to love to Hitler-bomb every single discussion they get into (see: Marijuana=abortion)

[Luigi]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1311653891' post='2276071']
Yet, it has been compared countless times on PM to all of those things. Go look through all the various threads on the subject that have cropped up over the last month or so. But do yourself a favor--only read the posts by Socrates, Havok, Papist and Nihil. That quartet seems to love to Hitler-bomb every single discussion they get into (see: Marijuana=abortion)
[/quote]

Well.... I'm not going to waste my time looking up their posts. I'll take your word for it. But I don't support exaggerated rhetoric on any of these questions by any posters. It seems to me that the thing to do on a phorum like Phatmass is to tone down the rhetoric, post actual Church teaching, and improve our understanding of the question in the process.

And if only four people (I realize it's probably just the first four names that came to mind, but it's a tiny minority nonetheless) are talking in those kinds of exaggerations.... out of all the people who post on Phatmass.... well, that's what I use the Ignore button for.

[kujo]

[quote name='Luigi' timestamp='1311654647' post='2276077']
Well.... I'm not going to waste my time looking up their posts. I'll take your word for it. But I don't support exaggerated rhetoric on any of these questions by any posters. It seems to me that the thing to do on a phorum like Phatmass is to tone down the rhetoric, post actual Church teaching, and improve our understanding of the question in the process.

And if only four people (I realize it's probably just the first four names that came to mind, but it's a tiny minority nonetheless) are talking in those kinds of exaggerations.... out of all the people who post on Phatmass.... well, that's what I use the Ignore button for.
[/quote]

Can we still ignore people? Not that I'd use it--I think it's important to point out these outrageous analogies whenever I see them.

[Luigi]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1311654740' post='2276078']
Can we still ignore people? Not that I'd use it--I think it's important to point out these outrageous analogies whenever I see them.
[/quote]

At the top of the page, in the left corner, clikc on Signed In AS XXXX, then scroll down to manage Ignored Users.

Voila!

[Luigi]

[quote name='Luigi' timestamp='1311655041' post='2276082']
At the top of the page, in the left corner, clikc on Signed In AS XXXX, then scroll down to manage Ignored Users.

Voila!
[/quote]

I should add that we never [i]fully[/i] ignore the Ignored. The most salient parts of their posts show up as quotes in other people's responses, even if you never read any of their posts.

But that Manage Ignored Users is wonderful blood pressure therapy!

[Papist]

[font="Arial"][size=3][quote name='kujo' timestamp='1311653891' post='2276071']
Yet, it has been compared countless times on PM to all of those things. Go look through all the various threads on the subject that have cropped up over the last month or so. But do yourself a favor--only read the posts by Socrates, Havok, Papist and Nihil. That quartet seems to love to Hitler-bomb every single discussion they get into (see: Marijuana=abortion)
[/quote]
I have never here at PM or anywhere else compared, much less equated, homosexuality to abortion, Hitler or any genocide. [/size][/font][font="Arial"][size=3]
[/size][/font]

[havok579257]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1311652874' post='2276062']
Hi

In my opinion--not answering your question on behalf of Debra, just answering the question you posed since I found it interesting-- is that homosexuals--and homosexuality on the whole-- ought not to be viewed in the same moral light as abortion, or Hitler, or the Rwandaan genocide. That would be a good start.
[/quote]


but again, should the church change its doctorines and beliefs to better fit with society? also if it changes one, why then not change anyone the majority of people dislike, such as contraception?

basically, we can all agree that up until recently homosexual sex acts were looked at as immoral and wrong by society. although just recently they are looked at as normal and not only ok but something good. so your advocating changing church doctorine to fit with society, since now it says its ok. what happens in 50 years when society deems marriage obsolete and its better just to live with people, but have no commitement. should the church then change doctorine to accomodate those people?

the church was not made to change its doctorines and teachings because of what society deems as good and acceptable. although this is what your advocating. so why even have the church then? if God's laws don't matter and instead what matters is what society deems as acceptable, whey even have the church then?

[havok579257]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1311653891' post='2276071']
Yet, it has been compared countless times on PM to all of those things. Go look through all the various threads on the subject that have cropped up over the last month or so. But do yourself a favor--only read the posts by Socrates, Havok, Papist and Nihil. That quartet seems to love to Hitler-bomb every single discussion they get into (see: Marijuana=abortion)
[/quote]


and here comes the lies and perosnal attacks. so everytime... everytime we post in a topic, we always bring up hitler. lying is a sin. unless you can show that everytime we talk we bring up hitler, you are just lying to try and make your point seem genuine. anytime anyone disagree's with you, you claim outrageous things.

Edited July 26, 2011 by havok579257

[Papist]

[font=Tahoma][size=2]If the Church changes its teachings on faith andmorals, then the Church no longer exists.[/size][/font]

[Jaime]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1311652874' post='2276062']
Hi

In my opinion--not answering your question on behalf of Debra, just answering the question you posed since I found it interesting-- is that homosexuals--and homosexuality on the whole-- ought not to be viewed in the same moral light as abortion, or Hitler, or the Rwandaan genocide. That would be a good start.
[/quote]


[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1311653891' post='2276071']
Yet, it has been compared countless times on PM to all of those things. Go look through all the various threads on the subject that have cropped up over the last month or so. But do yourself a favor--only read the posts by Socrates, Havok, Papist and Nihil. That quartet seems to love to Hitler-bomb every single discussion they get into (see: Marijuana=abortion)
[/quote]


[quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1311694656' post='2276211']
but again, should the church change its doctorines and beliefs to better fit with society? also if it changes one, why then not change anyone the majority of people dislike, such as contraception?

basically, we can all agree that up until recently homosexual sex acts were looked at as immoral and wrong by society. although just recently they are looked at as normal and not only ok but something good. so your advocating changing church doctorine to fit with society, since now it says its ok. what happens in 50 years when society deems marriage obsolete and its better just to live with people, but have no commitement. should the church then change doctorine to accomodate those people?

the church was not made to change its doctorines and teachings because of what society deems as good and acceptable. although this is what your advocating. so why even have the church then? if God's laws don't matter and instead what matters is what society deems as acceptable, whey even have the church then?
[/quote]


I'm not up to speed on Kujo's views on homosexuality. But I do agree that homosexuality as a topic is almost always treated more harshly here than other sexual sins. "But jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)!! Sodomy is one of the sins that cries to heaven for justice!" Yes thank you for pointing that out. But sodomy is defined as "anal or oral copulation with a member of the same or opposite sex" . The same or [b]opposite[/b] sex. I'm willing to bet all the money in my pockets that there are overwhelmingly more topics about homosexuality than there is about heterosexual oral or anal sex. Somehow people have decided that heterosexual "sins that cry out to heaven for vengeance" are not as bad as heterosexual sins of the same nature.

[Jaime]

not as bad as homosexual sins of the same nature

[Azriel]

[quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1311707402' post='2276252']
not as bad as homosexual sins of the same nature
[/quote]

QFT

[Debra Little]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1311602820' post='2275506']
I never heard this stereotype. I didn't know that are infatuated with weddings. Must be why they are so gung-ho on this same-sex marriage issue. And I thought they were too busy worshipping Madonna and Cher. well since I am a homophobe, my sub-conscience must have intended for it to be a gay joke.

Actually, I was knocking all the people[mostly women] that were oohing and aahing all over the place about this royal wedding.
[/quote]


a lot of you are filled with sterotypes. no we are not into weddings. we just want our legal and moral
rights. that simple. if people think we are a threat to marriage then why don't they name people they
know who's marriage has broken because of us? they can't because it isn't true and doesn't happen.
marriages break up for other reasons and it's not our place to judge. and believe me, gay Christians
are not into Madonna. that is a sick thing to say and hopefully you meant it as a joke but it's not a
very nice one. it shows homophobia and stereotyping. watching weddings is boring.

[Debra Little]

[quote name='Debra Little' timestamp='1311622451' post='2275815']
that would be nice but this dog needs to wake up kujo. the breach between the church
and society needs to be healed or we can't move on.
[/quote]


it is the churches that teach society and give society the right to be homophobic
and violent toward us. there are very few churches that are completely welcoming.
and you all wonder why it's so hard for us? duh! it's obvious.