It Gets Better

[Era Might]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1311641935' post='2275947']
Yeah. Those are factual statements. But I guess it's better for a fifteen year old gay kid to slit his wrists then, God forbid, be told (truthfully) that there are adult communities out there where he can live without being harassed for being gay.
[/quote]
There are adult communities out there we he can do lots of things without being harassed for it. Including Christian communities, artistic communities, communities of iniquity, etc.

[4588686]

[quote name='Era Might' timestamp='1311645224' post='2275975']
There are adult communities out there we he can do lots of things without being harassed for it. Including Christian communities, artistic communities, communities of iniquity, etc.
[/quote]

What's your point?

[Era Might]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1311647882' post='2276018']
What's your point?
[/quote]
That I don't support the purpose/assumptions/community behind this project.

Edited July 26, 2011 by Era Might

[4588686]

[quote name='Era Might' timestamp='1311649085' post='2276027']
That I don't support the purpose/assumptions/community behind this project.
[/quote]

You don't support Gay people being able to live without being harassed and/or being threatened with physical violence?

[Era Might]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1311650142' post='2276036']
You don't support Gay people being able to live without being harassed and/or being threatened with physical violence?
[/quote]
Sure, I support those things. (Well, depending on what you mean by "harassed.")

Edited July 26, 2011 by Era Might

[Jesus_lol]

Its not really that hard to support a specific message to address a specific problem. when you see a message saying "help the starving children in Ghana", only a real arse would make a gigantic stink about it not including all the other starving countries, or other ailments. "why arent they addressing american anorexics??? obviously this is a political advertisement. besides, if those children managed their money better they wouldnt be such a drain on society!"
nobody complains when they see targeted PSA's about Meth or cigarettes, as opposed to a wider aimed message. neither of these things implicitly imply that the targeted thing is more or less important than unmentioned ones.


The fact is, gay kids will get picked on, on average much more than your straight children ever will be. although, any poster here chould just as easily have a child turn out to be gay and face these issues.
Thanks to people like you, and people worse than that, society has given bullies carte blanche to be jerks to gay or effeminite children.

This video is targeting one specific area to try and reduce that.


"depending what you mean by harrassed" greaaaaaaat

Edited July 26, 2011 by Jesus_lol

[Era Might]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1311663500' post='2276123']
nobody complains when they see targeted PSA's about Meth or cigarettes, as opposed to a wider aimed message. neither of these things implicitly imply that the targeted thing is more or less important than unmentioned ones.[/quote]
PSA's are made by the government. But regardless, I don't support a PSA merely because it's a PSA. In fact, I was reading recently about a study about how the old drug PSA's actually lead to more drug use, not less. As I mentioned before, "It Gets Better" is just one thing I happen not to support. Neither do I support the cult around being a cancer or AIDS survivor.


[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1311663500' post='2276123']"depending what you mean by harrassed" greaaaaaaat
[/quote]
"Harassed" is an ambiguous word. It could mean anything from picking on people to telling them the truth about homosexuality.

Just because homosexuality (or cancer, or AIDS, or whatever) is a sacred cow today doesn't mean I have to get behind "It Gets Better" or any other project that I don't agree with.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1311663500' post='2276123']
Its not really that hard to support a specific message to address a specific problem. when you see a message saying "help the starving children in Ghana", only a real arse would make a gigantic stink about it not including all the other starving countries, or other ailments. "why arent they addressing american anorexics??? obviously this is a political advertisement. besides, if those children managed their money better they wouldnt be such a drain on society!"[/quote]
I wouldn't support a advertisement to "help the starving children in Ghana" merely because it wants to help the starving children in Ghana. I am distrustful of anything that is rooted in the ideology of the so-called "development" of the third-world. We tried that in Latin America, to great catastrophe. Just because people have good intentions doesn't mean I'm going to support them. It's a cliche, but it's true: the road to hell is paved with good intentions.


[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1311663500' post='2276123']The fact is, gay kids will get picked on, on average much more than your straight children ever will be. although, any poster here chould just as easily have a child turn out to be gay and face these issues.
Thanks to people like you, and people worse than that, society has given bullies carte blanche to be jerks to gay or effeminite children.[/quote]
Ah. So because I don't support "It Gets Better" then I cannot possibly have any sympathy for people struggling with homosexuality. As I said before, that's partly why I don't support these kinds of messages: because of the implicit assumption that I have to support them or else I'm "part of the problem."

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1311663500' post='2276123']This video is targeting one specific area to try and reduce that.
[/quote]
It's their project, not mine. I'm under no obligation to support them.

Edited July 26, 2011 by Era Might

[kujo]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1311663500' post='2276123']
Its not really that hard to support a specific message to address a specific problem. when you see a message saying "help the starving children in Ghana", only a real arse would make a gigantic stink about it not including all the other starving countries, or other ailments. "why arent they addressing american anorexics??? obviously this is a political advertisement. besides, if those children managed their money better they wouldnt be such a drain on society!"
nobody complains when they see targeted PSA's about Meth or cigarettes, as opposed to a wider aimed message. neither of these things implicitly imply that the targeted thing is more or less important than unmentioned ones.
[/quote]

That's a good point, man.

[SoonerCatholic]

Hmm. This is an interesting topic that I've had on my mind for sometime. I heard the founder of the "It Gets Better Project", Dan Savage, speak at the opening session of the American Library Conference. I primarily disliked him as a speaker for his irreverence towards the Church. However, I was torn, on the one hand a grassroots online video project encouraging young people not to give up because their lives are currently miserable is a great idea, on the other hand I find it questionable if the message is that living an openly "gay" lifestyle is ok.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='Era Might' timestamp='1311683145' post='2276143']
PSA's are made by the government. But regardless, I don't support a PSA merely because it's a PSA. In fact, I was reading recently about a study about how the old drug PSA's actually lead to more drug use, not less. As I mentioned before, "It Gets Better" is just one thing I happen not to support. Neither do I support the cult around being a cancer or AIDS survivor.
[/quote]

so you might prefer these if they were made by the government??

the drug use thing has absolutely nothing to do with these ads/psa 's about gay bullying, they are on completely different wave lengths.

what cult is that? the bunch of people who love that person being happy that they have survived a normally fatal disease? are you physically capable of supporting anything, era? and why bring up cancer or aids survivors in the first place?

[quote]
"Harassed" is an ambiguous word. It could mean anything from picking on people to telling them the truth about homosexuality.
[/quote]

if you are telling someone the "truth" about homosexuality using your fists, sticks, swear words, slurs or stuff like "you will burn in hell" then you are harrassing them.

do you support that?


you know, fat kids get bullied a lot. but a compassionate adult would comfort them and tell them that the world is not as bad as the jerks in highschool.

A compassionate adult would not use that chance to tell a recently beat up or emotionally damaged "fat kid" the "truth about obesity".
you know, because they could go on at length about the sins of gluttony and sloth, and all the physical repercussions of being a fatty fat fat, and how they should man up, diet and exercise before complaining about how hard life is. because being fat is a choice.




[quote name='Era Might' timestamp='1311683145' post='2276143']
Just because homosexuality (or cancer, or AIDS, or whatever) is a sacred cow today doesn't mean I have to get behind "It Gets Better" or any other project that I don't agree with.
[/quote]

No, you dont have to support anything you dont want to, stay neutral if you want. but you should probably have a good reason if you are speaking against something rather than just "i dont have to support you!", that is what neutrality is for.




[quote name='Era Might' timestamp='1311683525' post='2276144']
I wouldn't support a advertisement to "help the starving children in Ghana" merely because it wants to help the starving children in Ghana. I am distrustful of anything that is rooted in the ideology of the so-called "development" of the third-world. We tried that in Latin America, to great catastrophe. Just because people have good intentions doesn't mean I'm going to support them. It's a cliche, but it's true: the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
[/quote]

you really dont trust or support anything, i think is the problem here. you throw around words like ideology, development, good intentions to obscure that mainly those organizations are trying to stop kids from dying.



[quote]
It's their project, not mine. I'm under no obligation to support them.
[/quote]

You are really under no obligation to support or do anything. neither am i.


[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1311683527' post='2276145']
That's a good point, man.
[/quote]

thanks.

Edited July 27, 2011 by Jesus_lol

[Era Might]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1311729179' post='2276507']are you physically capable of supporting anything, era? and why bring up cancer or aids survivors in the first place?[/quote]
Because they are similar examples of society's divinization of certain causes. "Bullying" itself is another contemporary social construct that needs to be critically examined.

[quote]you know, fat kids get bullied a lot. but a compassionate adult would comfort them and tell them that the world is not as bad as the jerks in highschool.[/quote]
Great. That doesn't require me to support a political video campaign.

[quote]A compassionate adult would not use that chance to tell a recently beat up or emotionally damaged "fat kid" the "truth about obesity".
you know, because they could go on at length about the sins of gluttony and sloth, and all the physical repercussions of being a fatty fat fat, and how they should man up, diet and exercise before complaining about how hard life is. because being fat is a choice.[/quote]
Straw man based on nothing I've said in this thread. But I've made my point already, and people can read what I've actually said.

[quote]No, you dont have to support anything you dont want to, stay neutral if you want. but you should probably have a good reason if you are speaking against something rather than just "i dont have to support you!", that is what neutrality is for.[/quote]
Why should I stay neutral? I said in the beginning of this thread that I am not against political statements, and I have political statements of my own. The creators of "It Gets Better" are free to make their political statements, and I am free to make mine.

[quote]you really dont trust or support anything, i think is the problem here. you throw around words like ideology, development, good intentions to obscure that mainly those organizations are trying to stop kids from dying.[/quote]
Why is there a problem? We simply disagree. It's only a problem if you assume that I'm "supposed" to support "It Gets Better" and not dissent from it. And as I've already argued, part of the implicit assumption of initiatives like "It Gets Better" is that we are "supposed" to support them, because they are supposedly self-evidently good. There are lots of things I support, but most of the things that society expects I'm "supposed" to support I probably don't support. To quote Henry David Thoreau:

[quote]The greater part of what my neighbors call good I believe in my soul to be bad, and if I repent of anything, it is very likely to be my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well? You may say the wisest thing you can, old man — you who have lived seventy years, not without honor of a kind — I hear an irresistible voice which invites me away from all that. One generation abandons the enterprises of another like stranded vessels.

--Henry David Thoreau, "Walden"[/quote]
[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1311729179' post='2276507']You are really under no obligation to support or do anything. neither am i.[/quote]
Great. Then there's no problem, simply disagreement.

Edited July 27, 2011 by Era Might

[Lil Red]

off-topic posts moved.

[fides' Jack]

Oh, man!...

[Norseman82]

[quote name='SoonerCatholic' timestamp='1311686194' post='2276153']
I heard the founder of the "It Gets Better Project", Dan Savage, speak at the opening session of the American Library Conference. I primarily disliked him as a speaker for his irreverence towards the Church. [/quote]

Yeah, I thought he was involved in that project. It's sad to think the depths he's fallen to.