Why Is The Authority Of The Church So Difficult To Accept?

[Brother Adam]

The best thing you can do for yourself is to ignore MIkolbe. At any hour of the day.

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1311345801' post='2273786']
Wow.

I mean.

I'm not sure how to respond to this. Except to say that I certainly didn't mean to come off like that. At all. And I'd hope that someone would [i]kindly[/i] point out that it may have sounded like that... rather than post something like this. Or kujo's response. Maybe it's just too early and I'm reading this in the wrong light. I'm not usually one to be offended or "hurt" by random folks on the internet. But this sort of response seems out of line to me.
[/quote]
you know, maybe I read it wrong too...that's just how it struck me at first blush...sorry.

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='Brother Adam' timestamp='1311342530' post='2273755']
TB, our emotions and desires get in the way, and when we do not have a properly formed conscience they can often lead us astray. I think that is primarily what happens in homosexuality. We want our friends to be happy, and without proper understanding we see no reason to agree with the Church which should "stay out of their bedroom", but once we open ourselves to being properly formed we see how gravely evil it is.

I know what you mean though, once you know the Church contains the fullness of the faith, it should be easy to submit to her because she speaks with the voice of Christ. At that point we can ask questions to form our own understanding, but obedience is key.
[/quote]

It's just been something I've struggled understanding. I'm a convert to the faith, so the Church's authority and fullness of the faith was a [i]huge[/i] factor in my decision to become Catholic. And I guess to me it seems like a breech in logic or reason to stray from it while still remaining Catholic. (Not to say I think people who do should not identify as Catholics... that's not for me to judge... just that it seems like a non-sequitor to me.)

I spent this past year with a wonderful group of parishioners, and got to know them extremely well... I found that their "issues" with the Church usually stemmed from their experiences as a child or some sort of hurtful experience. At least with this particular group. Once I knew this, we were able to work on separating certain things (Adoration, the rosary, traditional Catholic practices) from being directly associated with their past experiences. Slightly different than having opposing views on faith and morals, but similar, I think.

I'm just trying to better understand, so I can be more effective in my work as a DRE. But it's difficult for me to understand where my parishioners are coming from sometimes.

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1311346300' post='2273792']
you know, maybe I read it wrong too...that's just how it struck me at first blush...sorry.
[/quote]

Re-reading my original posts, I can see how it could've been read in such a light, especially considering recent events around phatmass. I should have been a little more clear about [i]why[/i] I was asking. I had just gotten home from Bible study and we had a discussion revolving around this issue and I was frustrated. I'm sorry as well.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1311346373' post='2273794']
It's just been something I've struggled understanding. I'm a convert to the faith, so the Church's authority and fullness of the faith was a [i]huge[/i] factor in my decision to become Catholic. And I guess to me it seems like a breech in logic or reason to stray from it while still remaining Catholic. (Not to say I think people who do should not identify as Catholics... that's not for me to judge... just that it seems like a non-sequitor to me.)

I spent this past year with a wonderful group of parishioners, and got to know them extremely well... I found that their "issues" with the Church usually stemmed from their experiences as a child or some sort of hurtful experience. At least with this particular group. Once I knew this, we were able to work on separating certain things (Adoration, the rosary, traditional Catholic practices) from being directly associated with their past experiences. Slightly different than having opposing views on faith and morals, but similar, I think.

I'm just trying to better understand, so I can be more effective in my work as a DRE. But it's difficult for me to understand where my parishioners are coming from sometimes.
[/quote]

Right, a family member came back to the Church after almost 20 years when I apologized to her for the past hurt the Church caused her. "I'm sorry" goes a long way to healing wounds, even if you personally have nothing to apologize for.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Brother Adam' timestamp='1311347167' post='2273809']
Right, a family member came back to the Church after almost 20 years when I apologized to her for the past hurt the Church caused her. "I'm sorry" goes a long way to healing wounds, even if you personally have nothing to apologize for.
[/quote]
Wow! That's wild.

[LaPetiteSoeur]

When I was a junior in high school, there was this awe.some theology teacher we had. He had a doctorate from the university in Rome and could speak a ridiculous amount of languages.

High School students question the authority of the church very, very, often. The most common reason was because no explanation was ever given as to WHY the Church teaches certain topics. Doc didn't just say "The Church doesn't believe in gay marriage" or "The church doesn't believe in using the pill" etc. He took us to the biblical roots for such teachings, then sent us to the saints, and we came logically to the same conclusion as the Church!

So, at least for some of us (And most of my once classmates), the problem with Church authority lies in the basis for the teaching never being taught.

I hope this makes sense, as it seems to ramble on a bit.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1311330817' post='2273680']
Why can't you be humble like me? Look it's easy, I can do it!!! I take great pride in my humility!!

Sorry, this thread is whack, no offense.
[/quote]
You forgot to post the sarcasm meter

now go back and have more beer...

[faithcecelia]

[quote name='Brother Adam' timestamp='1311342263' post='2273752']
That is a heresy. Public revelation ended with the death of the last apostle. The Church may from time to time adjust rules governing its internal nature (Canon Law and such) all matters of faith (doctrine) and morals (right living) are infallible and never change, though we may learn to say more about them throughout time (the development of doctrine).

I recommend reading the Dogmatic Constitution Dei Verbum.

4. Then, after speaking in many and varied ways through the prophets, "now at last in these days God has spoken to us in His Son" (Heb. 1:1-2). For He sent His Son, the eternal Word, who enlightens all men, so that He might dwell among men and tell them of the innermost being of God (see John 1:1-18). Jesus Christ, therefore, the Word made flesh, was sent as "a man to men." (3) He "speaks the words of God" (John 3;34), and completes the work of salvation which His Father gave Him to do (see John 5:36; John 17:4). To see Jesus is to see His Father (John 14:9). For this reason Jesus perfected revelation by fulfilling it through his whole work of making Himself present and manifesting Himself: through His words and deeds, His signs and wonders, but especially through His death and glorious resurrection from the dead and final sending of the Spirit of truth. Moreover He confirmed with divine testimony what revelation proclaimed, that God is with us to free us from the darkness of sin and death, and to raise us up to life eternal.
The Christian dispensation, therefore, as the new and definitive covenant, will never pass away and we now await no further new public revelation before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ (see 1 Tim. 6:14 and Tit. 2:13)
[/quote]



In which case the Church itself has been guilty of heresy. Just one example being its change of belief in geocentricy to heliocentricy which eventually led to JP2 appologising posthumously to Galillo for accusing him of heresy and lifting the edict of the Inquisition against him. God had used Galillo as an instrument of revelation of the nature of His creation, and eventually the Church caught up.




Personally things like this actually increase my faith in the supremacy of the Church - where there are individual beliefs and opinions that I am uncomfortable with I know I can believe the Church's teaching on them safe in the knowledge that the hierarchy is continuously discerning and is not afraid to adjust its teaching if and when more evidence is revealed.

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='faithcecelia' timestamp='1311359119' post='2273905']
In which case the Church itself has been guilty of heresy. Just one example being its change of belief in geocentricy to heliocentricy which eventually led to JP2 appologising posthumously to Galillo for accusing him of heresy and lifting the edict of the Inquisition against him. God had used Galillo as an instrument of revelation of the nature of His creation, and eventually the Church caught up
[/quote]



The Galileo thing? Really?

Be serious now. Are you trying to make a funny?

[faithcecelia]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1311359460' post='2273908']
The Galileo thing? Really?

Be serious now. Are you trying to make a funny?
[/quote]


If you find it funny that the Church accepts when it has been mistaken and adjusts accordingly then so be it. I don't. As I stated in the part of my post that you did not quote, I find it an aid to faith in its teachings.

[sixpence]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1311359460' post='2273908']
The Galileo thing? Really?

Be serious now. Are you trying to make a funny?
[/quote]

am confuse as to what is funny?

[Luigi]

TB, something else that may help you understand parishioners better - some cradle Catholics have a stronger "Catholic culture" than Catholic theology. By which I mean, they've heard a lot of this stuff all their lives, it may have been taught to them, they may be able to repeat it, but they may not have seriously [i]thought[/i] about it and incorporated it into their lives.

It's one of the dangers (that may be too strong a word - pitfalls? possible negative outcomes?) of sending children through Catholic schools K-12 - they wear the uniform, sit through the religion classes, make their First Communion and Confirmation because Mom & Dad say it's time to do that, and so forth. For that matter, Mom & Dad may be requiring the child to make First Communion and Confirmation just to make Grandma & Grandpa happy, or because that's what they did when they were that age. For these people, the religion is more of a culture than a commitment.

As an intelligent, thoughtful, serious, and educated person, you made a conscious examination of theology and an intellectual-emotional commitment to the tenets of the faith. For some Catholics, that's all just the background of their lives.

I guess it would be like growing up on some mountaintop with a spectacular view - if you've looked at it all you're life, you may get to the point where you're at all impressed by it any more. I think we discussed a similar topic a few months ago, about trying to keep prayer fresh, our relationship with God meaningful, that sort of thing.

Don't be too hard on parishioners who fall into this category, but you will need to find some way to make their religion fresh and meaningful for them.

[Adrestia]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1311346373' post='2273794']
It's just been something I've struggled understanding. I'm a convert to the faith, so the Church's authority and fullness of the faith was a [i]huge[/i] factor in my decision to become Catholic. And I guess to me it seems like a breech in logic or reason to stray from it while still remaining Catholic. (Not to say I think people who do should not identify as Catholics... that's not for me to judge... just that it seems like a non-sequitor to me.)

I spent this past year with a wonderful group of parishioners, and got to know them extremely well... I found that their "issues" with the Church usually stemmed from their experiences as a child or some sort of hurtful experience. At least with this particular group. Once I knew this, we were able to work on separating certain things (Adoration, the rosary, traditional Catholic practices) from being directly associated with their past experiences. Slightly different than having opposing views on faith and morals, but similar, I think.

I'm just trying to better understand, so I can be more effective in my work as a DRE. But it's difficult for me to understand where my parishioners are coming from sometimes.
[/quote]

I can think of two causes: poor catechesis and misplaced anger/blame regarding the actions of some priests & bishops.
Sadly, many church volunteers are not qualified to teach to faith to others. A close friend of mine actually said to me that she has a hard time believing that God would send someone to hell just for being gay. I asked her where she got that idea. Her answer was her confirmation class. I was so angry that I wanted to throw up. I implored her to actually research the teachings of the Magisterium rather than trust her class, but she no longer even cares enough to bother.

Another thing to consider is that, for cradle Catholics more so than converts, Catholicism is as much of a culture as it is a religion. This happens in many older religions. I know many people who identify themselves as Catholic, fast during Lent, but only go to mass on Christmas and Easter. It's not very different than a Jewish friend of mine who eats his bacon cheeseburger without the bun during Passover (really - I did not make this up and it's not 3rd hand - I know this guy).

[thessalonian]

Orignal Sin. Weakness. Adam did not even obey God's authority.