Vincent Vega Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1311305417' post='2273462'] Again, is this your opinion, based on your understanding of related--but not specific-- Church teachings? Or is it the ACTUAL teaching of the Church? Just checking. [/quote] Yes, please show where the Church states that two individuals with SSA are not permitted to have a chaste relationship with one another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1311305417' post='2273462'] Again, is this your opinion, based on your understanding of related--but not specific-- Church teachings? Or is it the ACTUAL teaching of the Church? Just checking. [/quote] The basis is Church teaching, and I am making some reasonable inferences of my own. [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1311305491' post='2273465'] Yes, please show where the Church states that two individuals with SSA are not permitted to have a chaste relationship with one another. [/quote] It depends on the sort of relationship we're talking about. Are we talking about a 'chaste', romantic relationship where they live together? Raise adopted kids? I'd say that's not acceptable, and I have stated my reasoning. I can do so again if you like. On the other hand, are we talking about two guys who are friends in a non sexual, non romantic way? Like my best friend and I, who get together periodically, plan Call of Duty, drink scotch, and watch anime? Anyone can have that relationship. If two guys with SSA had such a relationship and were committed Catholics, then this would be especially beneficial because they could share their trials and hold each other accountable to the Church's expectations through prayer and frequent reception of the sacraments. However, a quasi-sexual relationship between two people with SSA? I do not believe this is acceptable based on our Church's understanding of the nature of same-sex attraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1311305491' post='2273465'] Yes, please show where the Church states that two individuals with SSA are not permitted to have a chaste relationship with one another. [/quote] Yeah. Just for my general knowledge base. Obviously, since I no longer "rep the Church," that teaching isn't going to sway my opinion or anything. But it would be good to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Considering that same-sex attraction is intrinsically disordered, I think it is quite reasonable to suggest that a relationship based upon that same attraction is by extension disordered as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1311305729' post='2273469'] It depends on the sort of relationship we're talking about. Are we talking about a 'chaste', romantic relationship where they live together? Raise adopted kids? I'd say that's not acceptable, and I have stated my reasoning. I can do so again if you like. On the other hand, are we talking about two guys who are friends in a non sexual, non romantic way? Like my best friend and I, who get together periodically, plan Call of Duty, drink scotch, and watch anime? Anyone can have that relationship. If two guys with SSA had such a relationship and were committed Catholics, then this would be especially beneficial because they could share their trials and hold each other accountable to the Church's expectations through prayer and frequent reception of the sacraments. [/quote] Somewhere between those two. Living together with no sexual contact. Separate beds, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1311305842' post='2273474'] Somewhere between those two. Living together with no sexual contact. Separate beds, etc. [/quote] At the outset it can quite easily be a near occasion of sin for both parties, which is not advisable whatsoever. What form does the sexual element of your hypothetical relationship take though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1311306331' post='2273480'] What form does the sexual element of your hypothetical relationship take though? [/quote] "Living together with no sexual contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1311306450' post='2273483'] "Living together with no sexual contact. [/quote] He said somewhere between the two hypothetical cases I presented. I don't know what that entails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1311306530' post='2273486'] He said somewhere between the two hypothetical cases I presented. I don't know what that entails. [/quote] Living together. Without sexual contact. "Romantic" without being "sexual." That's the "in between." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1311306586' post='2273489'] Living together. Without sexual contact. "Romantic" without being "sexual." That's the "in between." [/quote] I read the words already. I want them described with useful detail. The question is too ambiguous as it is currently worded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rizz_loves_jesus Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) I think what they mean is a relationship that is more than platonic, but does not involve sex. Similar to two unmarried people in a nonsexual but romantic relationship. As in going on dates, sweet talk, cuddling, living together, etc.... but no sex. Edited July 22, 2011 by rizz_loves_jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1311306676' post='2273491'] I read the words already. I want them described with useful detail. The question is too ambiguous as it is currently worded. [/quote] Ah. I see. Well, they live in a 2-story blackstone out on Long Island. They've got a garden in the back with tomatoes and assorted peppers and spices. Their furniture is mostly from IKEA (of course), with an Asian and post-modern feel. They prefer red to white wine, and are both huge fans of Paul McCartney, finding John "too liberal." Better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 [quote name='kujo' timestamp='1311306842' post='2273494'] Better? [/quote] What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1311306909' post='2273497'] What do you think? [/quote] I tried to offer you more details. I was only trying help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 [quote name='rizz_loves_jesus' timestamp='1311306715' post='2273492'] I think what they mean is a relationship that is more than platonic, but does not involve sex. Similar to two unmarried people in a nonsexual but romantic relationship. As in going on dates, sweet talk, cuddling, living together, etc.... but no sex. [/quote] I'm not even sure I'd take it that far. Let's say even no physical contact, or sweet talk. Would this be wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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