Homophobic

[Lil Red]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1311284774' post='2273195'](But this message will continue to fall on deaf ears around here)[/quote]
don't do that. again, how is this helpful to the conversation with little snarky comments like this?

[kujo]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1311284770' post='2273194']
and this is helpful to the conversation, how again?
[/quote]

Because I was laughing at the clearly-sarcastic post the Nihil made. Surely no one could actually believe that someone "hitting" on you has much of anything to do with holiness and sacraments.

In other words, I was acknowledging that I understood that this was one of those [i]ad ridiculum[/i] posts where the logic a person's argument is stretched to its limits in order to expose it's fallacies.

It [i]was[/i] a joke, right?

[kujo]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1311284843' post='2273197']
don't do that. again, how is this helpful to the conversation with little snarky comments like this?
[/quote]

I'm sorry, I didn't realize that dUst had created a task force to ensure that all posts are germane and "helpful." Not surprised, given the shenanigans that were going on around here a few nights ago with IGN.

(BTW, when have you known me to [i]not[/i] be snarky?!??!)

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1311284464' post='2273188']
Not quite. If someone of the same gender 'hits on you', they're trying to entice you to something which is a perversion by its very nature. [ETA: something irredeemable.] At least if it's someone of the opposite gender, that approach can be made into something good and holy, i.e. courtship and a valid, even sacramental marriage.
[/quote]
I would venture to say that this is not often the thought behind people being "creeped out" by a homosexual person finding them attractive. You notice there is no "I'm flattered but this is against what Christ teaches us is holy - I'd like to befriend this person and we can grow closer to Christ together" but rather it is mostly "ew gross that's disgusting and wrong".

Also worth mentioning is the idea that many, many, many heterosexual (homophobic) men and women (often not recognizing their genuine misunderstanding of homosexual men and women) [i]assume[/i] they're being hit on [b]when they are not[/b]. I watch this happen ALL. THE. TIME.

There is this strange assumption that happens on the part of many heterosexual men and women. The assumption is that simply because the person opposite them is the same gender and homosexual, that they MUST want to sleep with him or her. That they must be working to sleep with him or her. That the homosexual man or woman is really trying to woo the heterosexual man or woman.

And if not that, then this constant fear that one day that homosexual person WILL develop feelings for that heterosexual man or woman. And the fear consumes them to a point of being incapable of being Christ to them. And it turns into judgement and fear.

Are there situations where people become too immeshed and relationships go awry (because of a lot of factors)? YES. Is this going to happen every time? NO.

Maintaining a platonic relationship with a homosexual man or woman is very often the same, IMO, as maintaining a relationship with a heterosexual man or woman. I don't fear that my male friends are always trying to get in my pantaloons. (I think this is mostly because I don't assume that is anyone's primary goal (with whom I have consistent contact).)

[Lil Red]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1311285042' post='2273201']
I'm sorry, I didn't realize that dUst had created a task force to ensure that all posts are germane and "helpful." Not surprised, given the shenanigans that were going on around here a few nights ago with IGN.

(BTW, when have you known me to [i]not[/i] be snarky?!??!)
[/quote]
just ignore me i'm just in a sensitive mood. (i'm not being sarcastic here.)

and my 'don't do that' was asking as a poster, not a mod.

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1311284774' post='2273195']
You are amesome.

(But this message will continue to fall on deaf ears around here)
[/quote]
Thanks, buddy!

(Yes, I know. But much like them, I refuse to stop emphasizing the message of Christ simply because some don't want to hear me.)

[Nihil Obstat]

My point remains that if a homosexual person is propositioning someone else, any relationship, no matter what form it takes, cannot be acceptable in the eyes of the Church, whereas this is not true for an opposite-sex pairing. While such a relationship *may* not be acceptable to the Church, it also may become something holy. Also, as we have established elsewhere, a same sex sexual relationship is objectively considered a graver sin than a sexual relationship between two people of opposite genders.

[kujo]

[quote name='franciscanheart' timestamp='1311285121' post='2273202']

There is this strange assumption that happens on the part of many heterosexual men and women. The assumption is that simply because the person opposite them is the same gender and homosexual, that they MUST want to sleep with him or her. That they must be working to sleep with him or her. That the homosexual man or woman is really trying to woo the heterosexual man or woman.

And if not that, then this constant fear that one day that homosexual person WILL develop feelings for that heterosexual man or woman. And the fear consumes them to a point of being incapable of being Christ to them. And it turns into judgement and fear.

Are there situations where people become too immeshed and relationships go awry (because of a lot of factors)? YES. Is this going to happen every time? NO.

Maintaining a platonic relationship with a homosexual man or woman is very often the same, IMO, as maintaining a relationship with a heterosexual man or woman. I don't fear that my male friends are always trying to get in my pantaloons. (I think this is mostly because I don't assume that is anyone's primary goal (with whom I have consistent contact).)
[/quote]

One of my closest friends is a gay guy named Travis. Dude is amesome--totally into the same comics and movies as I am. We swap video games, hang out with each other, go to movies, eat at restaurants, drink at bars. You know, all the stuff that heterosexual friends do all the time. The only difference is that he goes home at the end of the night to his wonderful boyfriend Nick, who typically is cooking and listening to music with my girlfriend Amanda.

The point is that there isn't a shred of sexual tension anywhere in my relationship with Travis. Who he is attracted to has no bearing on our friendship, which, as I said, typically revolves around going to a comic book store or picking up some taco (amazingly good) Bell before sneaking into one of the dozens of movies we see together each year.

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1311285145' post='2273204']
just ignore me i'm just in a sensitive mood. (i'm not being sarcastic here.)

and my 'don't do that' was asking as a poster, not a mod.
[/quote]

I love you

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1311285320' post='2273209']
My point remains that if a homosexual person is propositioning someone else, any relationship, no matter what form it takes, cannot be acceptable in the eyes of the Church, whereas this is not true for an opposite-sex pairing. While such a relationship *may* not be acceptable to the Church, it also may become something holy. Also, as we have established elsewhere, a same sex sexual relationship is objectively considered a graver sin than a sexual relationship between two people of opposite genders.
[/quote]
I should have been more specific. I meant 'any romantic or sexual relationship', rather than simply "any relationship".

[kujo]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1311285320' post='2273209']
My point remains that if a homosexual person is propositioning someone else, any relationship, no matter what form it takes, cannot be acceptable in the eyes of the Church, whereas this is not true for an opposite-sex pairing. While such a relationship *may* not be acceptable to the Church, it also may become something holy.
[/quote]

So...the ends justify the means?

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1311285320' post='2273209']
My point remains that if a homosexual person is propositioning someone else, any relationship, no matter what form it takes, cannot be acceptable in the eyes of the Church, whereas this is not true for an opposite-sex pairing. While such a relationship *may* not be acceptable to the Church, it also may become something holy. Also, as we have established elsewhere, a same sex sexual relationship is objectively considered a graver sin than a sexual relationship between two people of opposite genders.
[/quote]
And now we're off-topic.

Whatever you want to think is fine. I don't necessarily disagree with the points I think you're trying to make. However, my main intention was to bring up a general feeling of many in (and out of) the Church that is so clearly demonstrated in words and actions and is contrary to true love. Until we abandon the "creepy" factor, we will make no real progress.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1311285541' post='2273215']
So...the ends justify the means?
[/quote]
Understanding fail.
Homosexual 'romantic' relationships are contrary to nature and cannot be acceptable in the eyes of the Church under any circumstances.

[kujo]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1311285539' post='2273214']
I should have been more specific. I meant 'any romantic or sexual relationship', rather than simply "any relationship".
[/quote]

See, I disagree here (shocker).

Can two homosexuals be in a romantic relationship that is also chaste and in line with the Church? It seems to me that a relationship where neither party is engaging in premarital sex is kind of the goal of all Catholic relationships. Thus, would the genders of the two parties even matter, if there isn't any sex happening? How would it be any different than any other heterosexual non-marital relationship that was chaste?

[kujo]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1311285602' post='2273218']
Understanding fail.
Homosexual 'romantic' relationships are contrary to nature and cannot be acceptable in the eyes of the Church under any circumstances.
[/quote]

I understood just fine. I was just busting your chops (but in a totally no-homo way...just so you know...wouldn't want you to be grossed out or anything)

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1311285469' post='2273212']
One of my closest friends is a gay guy named Travis. Dude is amesome--totally into the same comics and movies as I am. We swap video games, hang out with each other, go to movies, eat at restaurants, drink at bars. You know, all the stuff that heterosexual friends do all the time. The only difference is that he goes home at the end of the night to his wonderful boyfriend Nick, who typically is cooking and listening to music with my girlfriend Amanda.

The point is that there isn't a shred of sexual tension anywhere in my relationship with Travis. Who he is attracted to has no bearing on our friendship, which, as I said, typically revolves around going to a comic book store or picking up some taco (amazingly good) (amazingly good) Bell before sneaking into one of the dozens of movies we see together each year.
[/quote]
This demonstrates my point very well - in that you are able to maintain healthy boundaries with another HUMAN PERSON without struggle. It does not matter that he is homosexual, you can still be friends. It's like people are ... AFRAID ... of homosexual men and women. They hold them at a distance and talk about Truth and "charity" and "love" without ever putting it into ACTUAL practice.