Homophobic

[Guest]

[quote name='Deus_te_Amat' timestamp='1311518662' post='2274883']
Luke/Matthew 6. Stop judging.
[/quote]
How is that judging ?

[Deus te Amat]

Calling something they may or may not have control over satanic is judging. There are many factors involved with SSA, and you have no way of knowing what is the cause. It certainly may not be satanic in origin, as the attraction itself is not the sin, it is the doing. To imply otherwise is judging.

[Guest]

[quote name='Deus_te_Amat' timestamp='1311519699' post='2274899']
Calling something they may or may not have control over satanic is judging. There are many factors involved with SSA, and you have no way of knowing what is the cause. It certainly may not be satanic in origin, as the attraction itself is not the sin, it is the doing. To imply otherwise is judging.
[/quote]
Ok well from the verses I've read in the Bible God is not to fond of men having sex with each other. Mabey I'm wrong and its not something brought on by the devil. If so I'm sorry I wasn't trying to judge.

[Deus te Amat]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1311520202' post='2274907']
Ok well from the verses I've read in the Bible God is not to fond of men having sex with each other. Mabey I'm wrong and its not something brought on by the devil. If so I'm sorry I wasn't trying to judge.
[/quote]

God is indeed not fond of men having sex with each other. But, he only condemned Sodom and Gomorrah [i]after[/i] he had tried to warn them multiple times. He did not want them to sin, but they deliberately turned their back on Him.

What if these people know God and desperately want to serve him, but still have SSA? What if they have never been taught biblical teachings in a *good* way (not just hearing how everything they do will cause them to burn in hell)? They are then "turning away" from a false picture of God, not God Himself. There is a difference.

I'm not trying to pick on you... It's just that a lot of people would read that and have their false image of Catholicism confirmed. I know you weren't trying to judge, but at the same time, your post implied otherwise. We have to be careful with the way we say things online because we never know who will be reading our posts, and we don't want our words to turn someone away from finding God's Truth.

[Guest]

[quote name='Deus_te_Amat' timestamp='1311520846' post='2274912']
God is indeed not fond of men having sex with each other. But, he only condemned Sodom and Gomorrah [i]after[/i] he had tried to warn them multiple times. He did not want them to sin, but they deliberately turned their back on Him.

What if these people know God and desperately want to serve him, but still have SSA? What if they have never been taught biblical teachings in a *good* way (not just hearing how everything they do will cause them to burn in hell)? They are then "turning away" from a false picture of God, not God Himself. There is a difference.

I'm not trying to pick on you... It's just that a lot of people would read that and have their false image of Catholicism confirmed. I know you weren't trying to judge, but at the same time, your post implied otherwise. We have to be careful with the way we say things online because we never know who will be reading our posts, and we don't want our words to turn someone away from finding God's Truth.
[/quote]
I know you're not picking on me and you're absolutly right. You make good points again. Thank you for calling me out. Godbless.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1311485393' post='2274749']
It seems to be a growing trend in our society that educated people and scientists are viewed as "despised elites" and decried somehow as "politically biased", in order to somehow diminish their very real research, facts and life's work, when it is inconvenient, to serve that part of society's political bias.

not a fan.[/quote]
Yeah, those guys in the white coats sure are a persecuted lot in today's world.

I hear they're going to start burning them at the stake soon.


But I can say there's nothing about holding a degree in the sciences (or any other subject) that makes one magically immune from the political biases and political pressures that affect the rest of mere mortals.



[quote]besides, jaimie laid out why your statement is irrelevant.[/quote]
Yes, what the APA says is indeed completely irrelevant to the morality or proper ordering of sexual acts.

And there are plenty of Catholic PhD-holding psychologists who agree with the Church that homosexuality is disordered, though no doubt you would dismiss them as politically-biased quacks.

[quote]Also, when you refer to Science as "science" with the quotation marks, its like advertising that you dropped out of school in grade 9 to pursue a career as a Wal Mart greeter.[/quote]
I put "science" in quotation marks to distinguish mere empty opinionizing and hypothesizing from genuine science.

Real science involves a rigorous method of testing and proving or disproving hypotheses. I've seen no genuine scientific evidence presented here.

Uncritically accepting anything touted as "scientific" is the mark of the ignorant and poorly educated.


But, whenever you find yourself capable of making a point without resorting to pointless [i]ad hominems[/i], let me know.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1312149817' post='2279347']
Yeah, those guys in the white coats sure are a persecuted lot in today's world.

I hear they're going to start burning them at the stake soon.
[/quote]

the world is actually generally fine with the guys in white coats. It is just the corporatist schmucks and the people who elect them that seem to have a problem with them.
Of course, then they get to make their own little doppelgangers in white coats who say such amesome stuff as "tobacco is good for you", "coal is clean, and alternative energy is unfeasible", "mountain topping, clear cutting and strip mining are amesome for the environment, and even if they werent, the environment isnt even that necessary".

[quote]
But I can say there's nothing about holding a degree in the sciences (or any other subject) that makes one magically immune from the political biases and political pressures that affect the rest of mere mortals.
[/quote]

I cant say i disagree with that basic premise, but i have yet to see any prominent disagreement with the scientific community(on a scientific matter) that isnt being spewed out by a rabidly politically biased person. Bonus points for them actually having no real claim to knowledge of the technology or science involved.



[quote]
Yes, what the APA says is indeed completely irrelevant to the morality or proper ordering of sexual acts.
[/quote]

yup.
Im pretty sure the only people here who have been saying otherwise, have been the people crowing that the APA's past position on homosexuality validates their views on homosexuality being bad. of course, the APA and DSM are only valid sources on morality and the proper ordering of sexual attraction during the time periods in which they agree with your position.

[quote]
And there are plenty of Catholic PhD-holding psychologists who agree with the Church that homosexuality is disordered, though no doubt you would dismiss them as politically-biased quacks.
[/quote]


Not necessarily, i have a lot of respect for many catholic scientists and doctors. Of course, they could be quacks, but that is true of really any subsection of the medical field.

[quote]
Uncritically accepting anything touted as "scientific" is the mark of the ignorant and poorly educated.
[/quote]

and so is the opposite stance.

[quote]
But, whenever you find yourself capable of making a point without resorting to pointless [i]ad hominems[/i], let me know.
[/quote]

Im fully capable of posting like that, but as i am posting on PM for my own enjoyment i see no reason to deny myself the pleasure of poking holes in overinflated windbags.

As soon as you can make a post that doesnt rampantly generalize and insult wide swaths of people, let me know. I am reminded of the "Kettle calling the Pot black" but at least a kettle can hold water.

see, its fun!

Edited August 1, 2011 by Jesus_lol

[Groo the Wanderer]

Can this thread end already? I don't see any threads going on and on about heterosexuality. Seems the whole thing is overblown.

Make y'all a deal: Close the thread for now and as soon as 2 men or 2 women figure out how to create a new human using just their own DNA, we can resume the debate for as long as you want. K?

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1312198730' post='2279666']
Make y'all a deal: Close the thread for now and as soon as 2 men or 2 women figure out how to create a new human using just their own DNA, we can resume the debate for as long as you want. K?
[/quote]

[url="http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/sciencetech/men-no-longer-necessary-for-sperm-production/750"]http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/sciencetech/men-no-longer-necessary-for-sperm-production/750[/url]

[Groo the Wanderer]

[quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1312199349' post='2279669']

[url="http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/sciencetech/men-no-longer-necessary-for-sperm-production/750"]http://www.environme...-production/750[/url]
[/quote]

brought to you by the same 'scientists' who perfected cold fusion a few years back? ppffftt

[infinitelord1]

[quote name='Luigi' timestamp='1311225213' post='2272319']
In another thread - probably lots of other threads - the term 'homophobic' is being used. According to the poster, the Church, most of society, mopst societies on earth, right-wingers, they're all homophobic.

I suggested a month or two ago, when some pretty hot & heavy arguments were going on, that people should define their terms. It's simply a necessary step in argumentation. So I'd like us to discuss the definition of 'homophobic.'

The term homophobic means "afraid of homosexuals." It was coined in 1972 by psychologist George Weinberg in his book [u]Society and the Healthy Homosexual [/u]to refer to individuals who do not support homosexuals, on the assumption that those who do not support homosexuals are actually afraid of them - the assumption that hatred is motivated by fear.

1. While it's true that some hatred is the result of fear (I am afraid of snakes, so I hate snakes), not ALL hatred is the result of fear.

2. Additionally, non-support of homosexuals is not the same thing as hatred of homosexuals.

I think the term 'homophobic' is a misnomer, at least for most people most of the time.


Discuss amongst ya'selves.
[/quote]
We should be supportive of people who experience SSA and live celibate lifestyles. We shouldn't affirm someone living the gay lifestyle.

[Winchester]

We should come up with as many euphemisms as possible.

[mortify]

[quote name='Deus_te_Amat' timestamp='1311519699' post='2274899']
Calling something they may or may not have control over satanic is judging. There are many factors involved with SSA, and you have no way of knowing what is the cause. It certainly may not be satanic in origin, as the attraction itself is not the sin, it is the doing. To imply otherwise is judging.
[/quote]

You know, Jesus didn't condemn all judgement, as if we are incapacitated to declare an evil act sin! If anything delivery boy's assertion was erroneous, and not judgemental. I know a faithful Catholic with SSA and it certainly goes back to an early period in his life. Perhaps there is some genetic involvement, who knows, but it's still intrinsically disordered. I think Catholics are either too hard or too soft on this topic.

[Deus te Amat]

[quote name='mortify' timestamp='1312379341' post='2280814']

You know, Jesus didn't condemn all judgement, as if we are incapacitated to declare an evil act sin! If anything delivery boy's assertion was erroneous, and not judgemental. I know a faithful Catholic with SSA and it certainly goes back to an early period in his life. Perhaps there is some genetic involvement, who knows, but it's still intrinsically disordered. I think Catholics are either too hard or too soft on this topic.
[/quote]

Luke 6:36 - "Stop judging and you will not be judged, stop condemning and you will not be condemned, forgive, and it will be forgiven you."

While I do agree with what you are attempting to say, and evil acts [i]should[/i] be condemned, the judging of an individual is... tricky, because you don't [i]know[/i] what caused them to choose to commit an act of sin. No one does. God does, but we are not capable of knowing what God does. Someone who has been attracted to the same sex their entire life and has only been told that this attraction is an "abomination" and they are going to hell for this something they can't control... If they have never been told the fulness of Truth, if they have never seen the beauty of what true love is... Their ignorance is not a sin. Their attraction is not a mortal sin. You can tell them that what they do and feel is going to send them to hell all day long, but it wont, at least as long as they don't fully understand Christian theology.

Do you know what the three conditions of a mortal sin are?

[southern california guy]

Well the way I figure it people have been around a pretty long time, and homosexuals will never be accepted as "normal" -- because they're not!!! People are never going to accept them in the same way that they do heterosexuals. I would think that the trick for the homosexuals is to figure out how to get along in the world in a manner of minimum conflict.

I would strongly recommend against "Gay Pride" parades and gatherings and such. That's just plain stupid! People and societies exist because of heterosexuals -- not homosexuals! Homosexuals only exist because of heterosexuals! To parade around in a community that exists because of heterosexuals and to call the heterosexuals "breeders" and such -- is definitely a good way to create a conflict!

Let's face it we're sociable beings. As humans we like to be around other humans -- hanging out with friends, etc. And within groups of people men and women naturally get together and form families. And marriages are the basis of a stable society. Kids grow up the best when they have a father and a mother looking out for them.

Do you think that parents like to see their kids and their kids wives and husbands and kids? You bet that they do!! I love getting together with my married brothers and sisters and their families. Now why would parents feel a little funny about children who get together with people of their same sex. Hmmmmm.... Boy isn't that a tough question.. Wow, I wonder why? (Sarcasm) Would "homosexual marriage" improve things? I... don't... think... so...



[i][b]BUT THEY'RE JUST BORN THAT WAY!!!![/b][/i]

Would that agree with evolutionary theory? Let's see.. The heterosexuals reproduce, and the homosexuals don't.......... Hmmm...