Irish Gov't Intros Bill To Mandate Reporting Of Abuse,

[cappie]

The privacy of the Confession box cannot be used as an excuse for failing to disclose child sexual abuse, Minister for Children Frances Fitzgerald said today.

This follows Government plans to make it mandatory to pass on details of suspected child sexual abuse to authorities.

Under the plans put forward by Minister for Justice Alan Shatter, priests could be jailed for up to five years for failing to disclose information on serious offences against a child even if this was obtained during Confession.

Ms Fitzgerald said child protection was a "non negotiable" issue and the sacrament of Confession could not be used as a defence to claim exemption from the new reporting rules.

“If there is a law in the land, it has to be followed by everybody. There are no exceptions, there are no exemptions,” Ms Fitzgerald said. “I’m not concerned, neither is the Government, about the internal laws or rules governing any body."

She said she hoped the new laws could be placed on the statute books by the end of this year. Failure to follow the mandatory reporting rules could result in sanctions such as fines or jail terms.

Catholic Church spokesmen have said they want to see the text of the planned legislation before making a definitive comment. However, auxiliary bishop of the Archdiocese of Armagh Dr Gerard Clifford has said the bond of secrecy attached to confessions must be respected.

[url="http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0715/breaking1.html"]http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0715/breaking1.html[/url]

Who would have thought.............

[cmotherofpirl]

It doesn't surprise me, I'm sure they will try to pass it in the US as well.
I wonder what you send priests in a jail care package...

[4588686]

[quote name='cappie' timestamp='1310758708' post='2267863']
The privacy of the Confession box cannot be used as an excuse for failing to disclose child sexual abuse, Minister for Children Frances Fitzgerald said today.

This follows Government plans to make it mandatory to pass on details of suspected child sexual abuse to authorities.

Under the plans put forward by Minister for Justice Alan Shatter, priests could be jailed for up to five years for failing to disclose information on serious offences against a child even if this was obtained during Confession.

Ms Fitzgerald said child protection was a "non negotiable" issue and the sacrament of Confession could not be used as a defence to claim exemption from the new reporting rules.

"If there is a law in the land, it has to be followed by everybody. There are no exceptions, there are no exemptions," Ms Fitzgerald said. "I'm not concerned, neither is the Government, about the internal laws or rules governing any body."

She said she hoped the new laws could be placed on the statute books by the end of this year. Failure to follow the mandatory reporting rules could result in sanctions such as fines or jail terms.

Catholic Church spokesmen have said they want to see the text of the planned legislation before making a definitive comment. However, auxiliary bishop of the Archdiocese of Armagh Dr Gerard Clifford has said the bond of secrecy attached to confessions must be respected.

[url="http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0715/breaking1.html"]http://www.irishtime.../breaking1.html[/url]

Who would have thought.............
[/quote]

I am sensitive to the need for confidentiality but Society has to weigh which it values more: the ability of a sexual predator to get his sins absolved in private or the right of a young person to be protected from said sexual predator. I do worry about innocent Priests being caught up between the state's mandate to protect children and their Priestly mandate to ensure the privacy of the confessional. The Pope authorized the bugging of Padre Pio's confessional to check on rumors that he was having sexual encounters with women in it. The Church Hierarchy needs to do something to allow their Priests to report abuse while not going against their vows.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1310764980' post='2267924']
The Church Hierarchy needs to do something to allow their Priests to report abuse while not going against their vows.
[/quote]

A person who confesses to abuse doesn't GET absolution until be goes to the authorities, so its a moot point. As my priest put it 5 years in jail is nothing compared to going to hell for breaking the seal of the confessional.

[4588686]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1310765244' post='2267928']
A person who confesses to abuse doesn't GET absolution until be goes to the authorities, so its a moot point.[/QUOTE]

Ok. And if as he's making that drive to the station after confession he dcides he'd rather be a free man now and get right with God later in life, what then? Do we just say, 'sorry kids, sometimes life is unfair?'


[QUOTE]As my priest put it 5 years in jail is nothing compared to going to hell for breaking the seal of the confessional.
[/quote]




Ok. I respect that choice. I'd rather the Church hierarchy give Priests some sort of dispensation for reporting abuse.

Edited July 15, 2011 by Hasan

[MissScripture]

If priests were to start reporting it aftering finding it out in the confessional, why would child abusers continue going to confession? And were will it stop? Will the gov't then decide its more important for them to find out other information, such as about murders or theft, than for Catholics to be able to practice their religion? I get the idea behind it, but I really don't see it going in a positive direction...

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1310765444' post='2267933']
Ok. And if as he's making that drive to the station after confession he dcides he'd rather be a free man now and get right with God later in life, what then? Do we just say, 'sorry kids, sometimes life is unfair?'







Ok. I respect that choice. I'd rather the Church hierarchy give Priests some sort of dispensation for reporting abuse.
[/quote]
There is no dispensation for violating the seal of the Confessional. The only time a priest can discuss what was said is with the penitents permission, and that will never change.

[MrsSlappo]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1310765244' post='2267928']
A person who confesses to abuse doesn't GET absolution until be goes to the authorities, so its a moot point.[/quote]

Sorry, but that's not true unless the preist is not fufilling his duties. A priest cannot refuse absolution until one reports himself to the authorities. A priest cannot even assign a penance of requiring the penitent to report to the authorities as that itself violates the seal of confession. I can find sources if you'd like. - Mr.Slappo (his account is still banned)

Edited July 15, 2011 by MrsSlappo

[katholikkid]

The Irish bishops will most likely make an extraordinary dispensation for this matter. Although they shall hardly have to implement it. I doubt people who gravely harm children will be waltzing into the box anytime soon. Besides that, it's Ireland not much sacramental activity going on anyway.

Edited July 15, 2011 by katholikkid

[CatherineM]

It wouldn't be the first time that Irish priests have gone to jail.

[cappie]

David Quinn, director of the think-tank the Iona Institute, called the proposal "unprecedented."

"This would make us the one and only country in the Western world to have such a law. Even revolutionary France in the days of its worst violence against the church did not pass a law requiring the breaking of the seal of confession," Quinn told Catholic News Service.

He said the government "is clearly missing something that every other government can see, which is that, at a minimum, such a law is very unlikely to lead to a single conviction and, at a maximum, will be counterproductive and will make society less safe, rather than more safe."

"No child abuser will go to a priest in confession knowing the priest is required to inform the police. But cutting off the avenue of confession to a child abuser makes it less likely that he will talk to someone who can persuade him to take the next step," he added.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='MrsSlappo' timestamp='1310771731' post='2267973']
Sorry, but that's not true unless the preist is not fufilling his duties. A priest cannot refuse absolution until one reports himself to the authorities. A priest cannot even assign a penance of requiring the penitent to report to the authorities as that itself violates the seal of confession. I can find sources if you'd like. - Mr.Slappo (his account is still banned)
[/quote]
I'm just going with what my priest told me on the topic.

[4588686]

[quote name='cappie' timestamp='1310792246' post='2268107']
"No child abuser will go to a priest in confession knowing the priest is required to inform the police. But cutting off the avenue of confession to a child abuser makes it less likely that he will talk to someone who can persuade him to take the next step," he added.
[/quote]

But you can understand why many people are not willing to leave it to the Church's prerogative, Father. Or at least I hope you can. I don't have any sort of vendetta against Priests. Almost every Priest or Religious I've ever known has been a learned, pious man. That doesn't change the fact that the Church had the opportunity to use the confessional to persuade predators to turn themselves in and they failed miserably. The Church failed for decades to eradicate the systemic problem of sexual predators within the ranks of the Priesthood. People really are not willing to give the Church the benefit of the doubt like that. And they're really not wrong to be skeptical. I don't deny that the Church has taken real, serious steps to fix the problems of the past. But those steps seem to have been taken after the lid blew. Trust is something that has to be earned and right now that trust just largely isn't there in this respect.

Edited July 16, 2011 by Hasan

[Noel's angel]

[quote name='katholikkid' timestamp='1310773852' post='2267984']
Besides that, it's Ireland not much sacramental activity going on anyway.
[/quote]

I beg to differ.

[cruciatacara]

This is appalling - it doesn't take into account the fact the penitents go to confession precisely because they know the seal of the confessional won't be broken. If they start with child abuse, then it's logical to assume they will go to murder next, and perhaps start down a whole list of criminal offenses that must be reported. It violates a sacred trust. It is definitely an invasion of the Church by the State. I can't imagine how Catholic lawmakers could vote for such a thing.... Who would confess something they know will be reported to the auhtorities? I prevents a sinner from being reconciled with God and seeking help. I abhore child abuse, but this is not the answer.