Your Experience Of God

[Sarah147]

Hello,

I was thinking of making a poll, and I still might, but I think it would be complicated. I'll be considering it.

Anyway, what I'm wondering is who experiences God's loving Presence. Does it have to do with how deep in prayer people have grown to be, or how many years they've been in a state of grace?

So, sort of a poll:

[b]** In what way do you experience God and when did it begin?

** Where are you in prayer? (Pre-meditation, Meditation, contemplation, etc.)

** How many years have you been in a state of grace?
[/b]

Any thoughts on how you came to be open to experiencing God?


God bless you.

[inperpetuity]

Anyway, what I'm wondering is who experiences God's loving Presence. Does it have to do with how deep in prayer people have grown to be, or how many years they've been in a state of grace?

Hi Joyful Life,

I think this is a great idea. I think people can help each other in their spiritual lives by talking about their own experiences about how they are trying to get closer to God. According to St. Teresa and others, God gives such gifts such as these when, how often and to whom He chooses. Sometimes He can give them to a person who is entrenched in a life of sin in order to convert them, St. Augustine, St. Margaret of Cortona, etc. Then, there are those who are faithful to Him for years and practice the virtues and meditation habitually, and have never or rarely experienced His presence as such, but are rewarded for their fidelity in other ways such as graces that are not so obvious to themselves like St. Therese or Mother Teresa. But, as St. John of the crosses stresses, we cannot expect these things from God, I mean senseable experiences. We can trust in His goodness, and His love for us though or at least pray for an increase of this trust.

Having the determination and desire to be faithful in prayer and the practice of virtue no matter what, is in itself a grace. Like Job, we must get to the point where we are willing to say, Blessed be the name of the Lord, whether we experience His presence or not because by faith, we believe He is present. This can be arduous and even tedious, so it takes a strong resolution to be committed to it, but If we can get there, then we no longer care what we get from Him, but only that we are giving everything we have. I am not there and yet have at times and rather infrequently had this experience of His presence to a greater or lesser degree, but I am sure that it was because I was so weak and needed the help. St. Teresa said that when she first started practising prayer regularly, she dreaded the hour that she had set aside for it, and spent more time looking at the clock than meditating. There are also things that can be obstacles to being able to "get there" such as attachments either to people or things or whatever. I can't stress how much of a diffence letting go of certain attachments has made in my own life in my ability to be present to God. It seems the more I let go of the more seriously He takes me and the more aware of Him I am. I don't know if I've answered your questions or not. Inperpetuity

[faithcecelia]

I will reply to this tomorrow - I am tired tonight and having a drink, and want to gove my reply the thought and concentration it deserves.

[revelations]

[b]** In what way do you experience God and when did it begin?[/b]
I experience God personally. He walks with me..He talks with me..He loves me. I don't always agree with God..but usually I soon realize it isn't God who I am disagreeing with. I never knew God was real until my first son was born. I was 20. My grandmother taught me everything I know about Him. She told me, "He is a GOOD God."
[b]** Where are you in prayer? (Pre-meditation, Meditation, contemplation, etc.)[/b]
Jesus last words before He gave His Spirit over to God was, "It is finished." To me, His will is already finished. He was here before we were and His plan succeeded and I can only believe that His will has been finally fulfilled. This has already been done and I have to remember that He listens to every prayer and fulfills every need. My place is prayer is always gratitude. If I fail, I move on. I thank Him instead of asking for anything because I know He has already given me everything I need. I still pray for important things..but I thank Him before I finish with Amen.
[b]** How many years have you been in a state of grace?[/b]
Forever.
[b]Any thoughts on how you came to be open to experiencing God?[/b]
Life confused me and nothing made any sense, I thought, "Hey maybe God really is real. It was an awakening and finally everything made sense to me.


God bless you too.

Edited July 16, 2011 by revelations

[Chamomile]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1310747644' post='2267774']
Anyway, what I'm wondering is who experiences God's loving Presence. Does it have to do with how deep in prayer people have grown to be, or how many years they've been in a state of grace?
[/quote]

I hope this doesn't infringe on copyright, but I thought it was very applicable to your questions:

"'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me' (Rev. 3:20). The Lord does not only knock at the heart's door, He even calls His sheep by name, so that we may hear and open up to let Him into our lives, to share with us the tears of our supper and then to share with us His wedding feast.

"We do not need to go in search of God, as if He were in hiding far away. . .Yet the whole time He is standing before us at the door of our hearts, never going away. The knocks at the door are His words. He never stops knocking all the days of our life, so that the spirit may wake from its slumber and distinguish the voice of its lover.

"We do not need to resort to fervent pleas and tears and emotional supplications that the Lord may come to us, for He is always present and is knocking even now. He will not stop, because He wants to enter our lives.

". . .But it is we who do not rightly value His voice, mistakenly making little of it and disdaining it. . .How often have we stood praying before Him, begging Him to speak to us, hoping that we might hear Him, but it was useless! He never stops calling us by name; nothing prevents us from hearing His voice but our preoccupation with our own daily problems.

". . .The mistake we make is that we want to see Him in the midst of the daily events that fill our mental and emotional emptiness. But in fact the Lord is present now beyond all these things, beyond time and events, which He controls according to His own wise plan. The alert and simple soul notices the touch of His hand writing the story of its salvation through the years and the succession of events. Our successes and our failures work together in a positive way guided by the Almighty for our salvation. Temporal losses are not spiritual losses, and trouble, sadness, pain and sickness are the language of divine providence, its secret code, which when deciphered in the Spirit spells resurrection, joy, and eternal glory."

~ Matthew the Poor, from [i]The Communion of Love[/i]
[i]
[/i]
Pax.

[BarbTherese]

[b]** In what way do you experience God and when did it begin?[/b]

Consistent Presence.
It began as a child - and then confirmed with an experience on Holy Thuirsday night when I was 16.

[b]** [u]Where are you in prayer? (Pre-meditation, Meditation, contemplation, etc.)[/u][/b]

Silent Insighted Presence that can embrace totally and absorb absolutely with feelings of overwhelming joy - not necessarily a consistent experience.

[b]**[u] How many years have you been in a state of grace?[/u][/b]

Always, at least I think so. This can be a difficult question for sufferers of mental illness since full consent is absent during an episode of illness and one may do or say things that are definitely out of the normal. Be this as it may, after an episode of mental illness, one carries around if one lets oneself a great burden of guilt and sorrow, great regret, for what may have been said or done during an episode. Sufferers of mental illness perhaps in a very special way need to have absolute and boundless confidence in God and His Love and Mercy. We need to de-emphasize and shift from any sort of central type of focusing on self to total focus on God and His Love and Mercy for all regardless of all things and the follies and foibles of human nature especially those very evident and overt during episodes. Sufferers also need a certain independance of the opinions of others since misunderstanding of mental illness and false facts are so prevalent in our communities. Mental Illness is not an easy journey for sure, but the necessary special Graces do come with the illness in abundance - and this is an absolute guarantee for all and any circumstances in any life.
Here is a wonderful address by Cardinal Barragan, President Pontifical Council Health Care Workers, Rome. The address was given in Adelaide South Australia in February 2006 during World Day of The Sick: http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=6824
[quote]
[u]Extract only[/u]"If we approach the argument from this point of view, whereby the mentally ill patient does not have the knowledge or the faculty of full consent required to commit a mortal sin, his is not a deformed image of God, since that image can only be deformed by sin. Certainly, it is the suffering image of God, but not a deformed image. He is a reflection of the mystery of the victorious Cross of the Lord. Inspired by the image of the Suffering Servant of Yahweh (Isaiah 53, 1-7) we are drawn to a conscious act of faith in the suffering Christ." [/quote]


[b][u]Any thoughts on how you came to be open to experiencing God?[/[/u]b]I think probably a Catholic home and education laid the foundation, but my Mum used to say "Barbara was religious from the moment she opened her eyes" although I tend to think there is great parental licence and bias in that statement. The Lord just seems to have been with me always and through all experiences.
Also, at every single point in my entire journey, The Lord has placed in my path a holy and wise religious or priest with whom I was able to form a close bond. These have stood faithfully and lovingly, caringly, beside me despite the many distasteful factors (to the normal run of person in our communities) connected to mental illness episodes and way and far over and beyond any call of their duty. They have done so despite any concern for themselves and their own reputations.

[Sarah147]

I've been wondering this...

I sometimes hear people say "God told me to say this to that person... God told me to fast of this... God put it on my heart to... I felt God move me to speak to.... I felt called to start this ministry... God spoke to me in the Bible reading and said...."

How are these people hearing God? In what way and how did they get to the point where they were receptive and gifted to receive messages?

How can you tell God spoke or urged this or that?


Let's leave out those people that claim to be getting messages from the Blessed Virgin, etc. and aren't approved by the Church...

[Theresita Nerita]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1310918458' post='2268742']
I sometimes hear people say "God told me to say this to that person... God told me to fast of this... God put it on my heart to... I felt God move me to speak to.... I felt called to start this ministry... God spoke to me in the Bible reading and said...."

How are these people hearing God? In what way and how did they get to the point where they were receptive and gifted to receive messages?

[/quote]

If I were to say "God spoke to me in the Bible reading" what I would mean was that when I needed encouragement the exact advice I needed happened to come, and I was grateful. Or "God put it on my heart" meaning for whatever reason I felt this was the right thing to do, and couldn't convince myself otherwise even though it wasn't what I wanted.

But I would never use any of those phrases, because I'm not a protestant.

As St Teresa says, there are lights in prayer (good thoughts you have while praying) and then there are actual messages from God, which she says you can tell are from God because it's as clear and precise as listening to someone else speak, and you don't forget a single word no matter how many years pass, and no one can convince you you are deluding yourself because you could never have thought of anything like it.

As for me, I've felt God's presence extremely clearly at times and I know he has helped me in zillions of ways, but my only firsthand knowledge, which I can never convince myself to go against, is the vocational certitude I've felt since before I could even talk. And the more trials I face in service of the vocation God gave me, the more certain i am that it is right for me and that makes me certain of God, because I find no comfort in it and yet great joy.

[Lisa]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1310918458' post='2268742']
I've been wondering this...

I sometimes hear people say "God told me to say this to that person... God told me to fast of this... God put it on my heart to... I felt God move me to speak to.... I felt called to start this ministry... God spoke to me in the Bible reading and said...."

How are these people hearing God? In what way and how did they get to the point where they were receptive and gifted to receive messages?

How can you tell God spoke or urged this or that?

[/quote]

First off, knowing God's will is definitely not a Protestant idea.

I am confident that the saints throughout history had a things "put on their heart by God," (Joan of Arc leading the French army in battle) times when the felt God "move them to speak" (Catherine of Siena in times when there were two popes) and for sure "felt called" (obviously, any of the religious Saints).

The wording might not be the same, but we Catholics and Protestants alike can have truth revealed to them in various ways- and that it was God revealing it to them.

From a vocations standpoint, in the past few years, I've heard lots of people say they had a moment where they felt "called." But a calling can come from various sources- a sense of knowing, the deepest desires of our heart, other people, etc. I asked one vocation director how she knew that this was the life for her. She said she had various indicators in prayer, etc, but you can't know for 100% certain until Final Vows. The commitment is an equal part of the call. The call can be confirmed through spiritual direction, more prayer, and even how other people respond.

I've had moments when I'm certain I've heard God. (not out loud). An example, after several hours of Eucharistic Adoration, a thought popped into my head that I never would have thought about. Immediately, I knew that that was the Holy Spirit at work in me.

Most times how God works is not immediately evident. But looking back, I can say that certain things in my life have happened through the prompting of the Lord. I call them "God moments": things that are too perfect to be a mere coincidence. My experience with God is that I've been (and still am) a grave, worthless sinner. But He carried me through and continues to draw me closer to His Sacred Heart.

Edited July 17, 2011 by Lisa

[Theresita Nerita]

[quote name='Lisa' timestamp='1310921625' post='2268752']
First off, knowing God's will is definitely not a Protestant idea.

I am confident that the saints throughout history had a things "put on their heart by God," (Joan of Arc leading the French army in battle) times when the felt God "move them to speak" (Catherine of Siena in times when there were two popes) and for sure "felt called" (obviously, any of the religious Saints).


[/quote]

Yes I agree - Just to clarify, I mean that the phrases themselves I have more often heard from Protestants than Catholics, sort of like using the word "Fellowship" as a verb. Not the experience, just the phraseology.

[faithcecelia]

I was born into a family of committed Christians - indeed my parents were ministers of my former denomination until my mothers health led to them needing to come out - so God has always been a part of my life; I have never doubted His existance.


At the tender age of just turned 5 I chose to 'give my heart to Jesus' and took ownership of my own faith - it became my own personal relationship with God rather than the inherited one of my parents. That experience was every bit as profound and meaningful as any I have had since, and God has carefully and gently guided me into a closer and deeper relationship with Him, giving me a love and a hunger for all that He can give me and show me of Himself.



From a very young age (7 maybe?) I have spent time on my own quietly 'thinking' and as I have grown I realise that even at that age I was praying - practising mental prayer if you want to give it a 'proper' name. This continues to be my preferred method of prayer - I struggle to use books to help with prayer and don't really feel happy/comfortable with too many vocal/written prayers - I admit I never pray the rosary privately, for example.



God chose to bless me with a very easy faith, I believe this may well have been because He knew I would need it in order to survive my, quite frankly, hellish childhood. I have always been aware of God talking to me in words and I have always seen facial expressions in prayer (not a face, just the expression). Even in my hardest, darkest time during the last few years, I have never had sustained periods of dryness in prayer, and while I went through my 'dark night', where every day, every step was completely in the dark and by blind faith, when I didn't particularly want to pray and was having to choose to let my will control my desire, my prayerlife was still unquestionably mine - I still heard words, I still saw expression, etc. In the midst of the pain, this was my consolation as it reassured me that I had not lost my faith and was just having a tough time. During this time I was sent a copy of the Footprints poem, and praying over it I heard God tell me that He had carried me through my life to that point, but now it was time for me to walk. But not to worry because He was there holding my hand.



About 8mths before I was sent away from Quidenham I was praying in my cell at the foot of the stark, black cross common to Carmelites. We talk so often of taking up our crosses following Christ, but as I prayed that day he very clearly asked me if I was willing to hang on the cross with Him, was i willing to suffer for Him, was I willing to put my love for Him and my desire to do His will above any other desire in my life - including my desire to be in Carmel? At the time, leaving was not even a thought, and yet as I prayer I knew that if I said 'Yes' it would be like leaping off a cliff, it was a yes I could never retract and never go back from. Saying it caused an almost physical pain. A year later, having been sent away and in the midst of the chaos, I was in Mass one Sunday and had had to practically drag myself to communion, again choosing to let my will control my feelings. I got back to my place and as I knelt in prayer I heard myself cry out (not dramatic wailing, more a gasp! ) as I saw God look me hard in the eye and tell me 'that is what you said yes to'.


I know some people are very sceptical of the sort of prayer I experience, of course everyone is entitled to their scepticism, but a number of priests and spiritual directors have discerned that it really is how God speaks to me. My first NM, a lovely old sister with 70yrs in Carmel, actually got further advice as it was something she could not relate to at all and had never met anyone with such experiences, but believed absolutely it was true and wanted to be able to guide me appropriately.



I have always talked of God as 'my man' and have always related to Mary Magdelene in her 'excessive' affection for Christ - I am far more likely to run into His arms impulsively than stand at a distance Theeing and Thouing. The past few years have undoubtably changed this relationship, but its as if I have moved from the first throws of a teenage romance to the calm, solid love of pensioners.

Edited July 17, 2011 by faithcecelia

[Lisa]

[quote name='Theresita Nerita' timestamp='1310928164' post='2268774']
Yes I agree - Just to clarify, I mean that the phrases themselves I have more often heard from Protestants than Catholics, sort of like using the word "Fellowship" as a verb. Not the experience, just the phraseology.
[/quote]



Phatmass is a great way to fellowship with other Catholics. Let's continue fellowshipping

I especially like it in the -ing form

Ok, carry on with the serious conversation.

[BarbTherese]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1310918458' post='2268742']
I've been wondering this...

I sometimes hear people say "God told me to say this to that person... God told me to fast of this... God put it on my heart to... I felt God move me to speak to.... I felt called to start this ministry... God spoke to me in the Bible reading and said...."

How are these people hearing God? In what way and how did they get to the point where they were receptive and gifted to receive messages?

How can you tell God spoke or urged this or that?


Let's leave out those people that claim to be getting messages from the Blessed Virgin, etc. and aren't approved by the Church...
[/quote]


I would be absolutely reluctant to accept anything at all as a message, vision etc. etc. from God or anyone in Heaven unless I ran it past my spiritual director first and then strict obedience to my director would be response.
I have read that true messages, visions etc. are received with great Humility and Peace and that they leave the soul in Humility and Peace and a conviction that it was from God. But then it was either the children at Lourdes or St. Bernadette that threw holy water at their vision in order to 'exorcise' it, or so I have read somewhere. And yet their vision was truly Mary. Certainly, St. Teresa of Avila warns her nuns not to desire such things as they are so open to deception by the devil and she further instructs that love of neighbour is the surest and safest way to Unity.

This is an extact from "Seven Spiritual Weapons" of St. Catherine of Bologna http://www.saintsworks.net/books/St.%20Catherine%20of%20Bologna%20-%20The%20Seven%20Spiritual%20Weapons.txt
It was originally posted by Chiara Francesco here: http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=113524

This illustrates how cautious even suspicious one needs be about 'unusual religious or spiritual phenomena' and why a prudent, wise and holy spiritual director is such a gift. It shows just how vert cunning, resourceful and deceptive Satan can be.
[quote]
[size="3"]"Catherine, however, had been through hell during these troubled years of 1531–35. She speaks of six diabolical apparitions. In three of these the devil appears as a heavenly being: the Virgin, the Crucified, and Madonna and Child.23 In the first, the Virgin invites her to exchange her sinful love for a virtuous one. Catherine believes that her sinful love is her tendency to question every order and arrangement given by her superior. In the second instance, the Crucified reproaches her for taking back what she has offered, that is memory, understanding and will, in order to criticise her superior; the third time, the Madonna with Child repeats the first warning about sinful love. The virtuous love the Madonna offers in exchange is blind obedience. That in each case it was the devil in disguise who was speaking was clear only in retrospect and by the grace of God which taught Catherine that a genuine divine vision is preceded by humility and leaves the soul in peace.24 Thus she learned that in the particular circumstances in which she found herself, her rebelliousness was a healthy and positive reaction, whereas the admonitions to passive acquiescence were not. These three temptations from the devil in disguise occurred between the full remission of sins which Catherine received in 142925 and the exit of Lucia Mascheroni from the community and the introduction of Franciscan observance.26 Hence, the superior whom she was tempted to disobey was Lucia Mascheroni."[/size][/quote]

[quote]Phatmass is a great way to fellowship with other Catholics. Let's continue fellowshipping [/quote] St Teresa of Avila would like that. 'Fellowshipping' is an expression of love of neighbour and community ideally.

[revelations]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1310918458' post='2268742']
I've been wondering this...

I sometimes hear people say "God told me to say this to that person... God told me to fast of this... God put it on my heart to... I felt God move me to speak to.... I felt called to start this ministry... God spoke to me in the Bible reading and said...."

How are these people hearing God? In what way and how did they get to the point where they were receptive and gifted to receive messages?

How can you tell God spoke or urged this or that?


Let's leave out those people that claim to be getting messages from the Blessed Virgin, etc. and aren't approved by the Church...
[/quote]

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Edited July 18, 2011 by revelations

[krissylou]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1310918458' post='2268742']
Let's leave out those people that claim to be getting messages from the Blessed Virgin, etc. and aren't approved by the Church...
[/quote]

True ... but just remember that NOTHING is approved immediately.


The thingie in Wisconsin that was approved last year, it occurred, what, 150 years ago or so?

It was no less 'real' then than it is now.

Anyway. A good dose of 'test the spirits' can be in order. What is going on? How does it fit (or not) with what else has been revealed, through the 2000 years of the Church and through Scripture.

For the Wisconsin one, the alleged message was to "teach the children." And the young woman involved became a teaching Sister and taught children for the rest of her life.

Well that can hardly be a bad thing.