Single Women: Interacting With Our Brothers In Daily Life

[BG45]

That's sad. But yeah I can see it I guess.

[missionseeker]

[quote name='Lisa' timestamp='1310673861' post='2267457']
Sometimes you have to deal with these people, but it's not that bad. Sure, there are jerks/pigs, etc. out there, but most men aren't. It's important to value honest, chaste friendships and just remove yourself from the situation if that's not where it's going.

Don't go with the fake wedding ring, because you would keep away the person you are meant to be with (assuming you don't want a man that wants to be with a person he thinks is married), and miss out on a lot of opportunities to be a witness of chastity in the single life.

If you are discerning religious life, it does make it hard to be "single"-especially if your guy friends don't know about it. Spending time with guys one-on-one without it seeming date-y or giving them the wrong impression is hard (and something I'm currently encountering), so it might be best to just spend time in groups. Harder said than done, I know. In school, I always spent more time with guys than girls, so now it's a little bit challenging to cultivate more friendships with women.
[/quote]
I feel the same way!

[quote name='SoylentGreene' timestamp='1310676100' post='2267467']
I think a lot of how guys treat us is related to how we dress and carry ourselves. If we dress in revealing clothes it only makes sense that they would treat us in a more familiar manner.
[/quote]

I don't think that's necessarily true. I dress in a manner that is not flashy or showy or immodest, but a lot of times guys still hit on me. I'm DEFINITELY not inviting that or bringing that on myself. It just happens.

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' timestamp='1310677555' post='2267479']
I'm married but when I was single, I never really had that problem too often. I think I really put out a major "leave me alone" vibe and the opposite sex did just that.

Except in Poland and Italy.
[/quote]


I had a conversation with a guy friend (it's a VERY complicated friendship... :/ ) and I told him that no American had ever asked me out. (He totally didn't believe me) he told me that I don't really open myself up to the possibility of Americans asking me out. I was like "I don't really open myself to the possibility of ANYONE asking me out. He agreed. I'm not sure HOW I do this, to be honest. I'm very bubbly and tend to flirt. But when it comes down to it, I really do send off "leave me the hell alone" vibes (to everyone but creepers apparently.)

[quote name='SoylentGreene' timestamp='1310683391' post='2267516']
I woulnt think it we be appropriate to spend time alone with a man under most circumstances. It could be an occasion of sin.
[/quote]

I think it is good for guys and girls to spend time together. We are ALL God's children and we can ALL help each other on the path to holiness. Some of my best friends have been/are guys. I REALLY think that good, chaste friendships between men and women are super important. I think they help to prep us for serious exclusive relationships. I know that if I did not have the guy friends that I have, I would be an absolute mess. They've helped me keep in the back of my mind how I should demand to be treated and that not all guys are arse portals.

I really don't see how it would be an occassion of sin to have male friends. Mine usually keep me out of trouble...

[OnlySunshine]

Before my reversion, I would get hit on by guys I worked with at one of my workplaces. One was like 10 years older than me and I was still in my late teens. You could tell he was desperate to date and would take anyone. He ended up marrying the first girl he went out with who actually accepted. They only dated for about 2-3 months, had a little girl and got divorced later. The last I heard, he was looking for another girl. I'm so glad I did not accept his invitation. He was rather sleazy.

Then there was another guy who I had a crush on because he was geeky but funny. He was really tall and skinny, too. One day, as I was working the front door, he was sitting in the food court next to me and we discussed dating. He revealed he had a crush on me and I revealed the same. We went out a few days later on a "dutch date" to Starbucks. We decided to walk around. I think he wanted to move too fast because he tried to kiss me (which I pulled away from; 1st date is too soon) and hold my hand. I told him from word one that I would not be going farther than hand holding or kissing because I believed in waiting after marriage to have sex. He, for some reason, told me on the second date that his brother gave him condoms. That to me signaled that he was expecting more. He also spoke about this girl he dated once before and they did some pretty unchaste things. I decided to break up with him realizing that he wasn't going to respect my personal boundaries. I later found out that he was Catholic. So I guess it doesn't matter if you are Catholic or not, you can still be a jerk.

After my reversion, I met some amazing Catholic men. I've never had a problem with any of them. The guy I had a crush on recently got engaged, but he was very gentlemanly in his interactions with not only me but other young women in our CYA group.

I would advise you not to do the fake wedding ring thing. Like someone else said, you could potentially push away the person you are meant to be with. If you get the ring and later decide to date, it could cause scandal since people will think you are either cheating on your husband or getting a divorce. It's basically a lie to wear one anyway. You aren't married, so you shouldn't wear one.

I can certainly understand the hassle you are getting and you shouldn't have to put up with it, but don't push away every guy. There may be a few good apples in the bunch worth going out with. Dating is not easy. It requires chastity and a commitment from both of you to respect personal boundaries. But you may find that the person you are meant to be with may come along sooner than you think.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1310690362' post='2267561']
I feel the same way!



I don't think that's necessarily true. I dress in a manner that is not flashy or showy or immodest, but a lot of times guys still hit on me. I'm DEFINITELY not inviting that or bringing that on myself. It just happens.

[/quote]
I don't want to over-generalize, but I think it might have to do with your location, too. The summer I spent down there I got hit on more than any other time in my life. But that was by random strangers, so I guess it doesn't have any sort of application if you're talking about people with whom you're acquainted.

[quote]
I had a conversation with a guy friend (it's a VERY complicated friendship... :/ ) and I told him that no American had ever asked me out. (He totally didn't believe me) he told me that I don't really open myself up to the possibility of Americans asking me out. I was like "I don't really open myself to the possibility of ANYONE asking me out. He agreed. I'm not sure HOW I do this, to be honest. I'm very bubbly and tend to flirt. But when it comes down to it, I really do send off "leave me the hell alone" vibes (to everyone but creepers apparently.)

[/quote]
I think that the creepers just have no clue, typically, and they just don't pick up on any vibes, especially the "leave me alone" vibes.


[quote]
I think it is good for guys and girls to spend time together. We are ALL God's children and we can ALL help each other on the path to holiness. Some of my best friends have been/are guys. I REALLY think that good, chaste friendships between men and women are super important. I think they help to prep us for serious exclusive relationships. I know that if I did not have the guy friends that I have, I would be an absolute mess. They've helped me keep in the back of my mind how I should demand to be treated and that not all guys are arse portals.

I really don't see how it would be an occassion of sin to have male friends. Mine usually keep me out of trouble...
[/quote]
I agree. I'm not a single person, anymore, but a lot of my male friends were more like brothers, and if I didn't have those friends, I would've never gotten to where I am, today. There can be situations that could become an occasion of sin with a male friend, but I don't think it can be generalized to all male friendships.

Basically, some guys are creeps, some guys are amesome, and some fall somewhere in between. And don't settle for less than someone who treats you with dignity and respect, but don't assume all guys are just going to be jerks. And make sure you respect yourself, because if you don't, no one else will, either.

[cmaD2006]

[quote name='AudreyGrace' timestamp='1310675086' post='2267463']
Also, it takes a little more than dressing modestly. We have to be modest in our actions and speech; it's hard being daughters of God! I'm not saying you don't by any means at all, obviously. I'm sure you know all that, so it's just a reminder.
[/quote]

I agree wholeheartedly with AudreyGrace's statement.


To thegraceandpeace:

What I have found is that some women may naturally (instinctively) flirt without meaning to. They do it unconsciously. Or -- there are silent flirtatious actions, again not the intent but its there.

Maybe I'd take it to prayer and ask the Lord to show you if there is something in you that you aren't aware of that needs changing.

Note -- I don't know you, so I don't mean this at all in a negative way. Its just some food for thought.

My experience -- well, since I've started considering religious life I've only had two or three specific occasions where the guy made an advance. The first -- well like 2 or 3 days after I made an agreement with the Lord. The next -- years later, when a guy asked if I was willing to marry him so that he can get his citizenship (was that an advance? hee hee). And well this past april -- at my birthday party someone who danced with me really felt as though he started flirting. Me ... eh, not interested.

I do think I have a "taken" stamp on me (lol). Also -- I do wear a sort of a purity ring. I get very few questions regarding it. A few personal friends do know what its all about.

Blessings on your journey, and praying that if you are meant to marry that a wonderful, holy man may come your way

[Anastasia13]

I'm single. Guys would hit on me? Where?

Edited July 15, 2011 by Light and Truth

[faithcecelia]

I am, I confess, a natural flirt In a way (not to negate my role in it) its partly shyness which can often come across as flirting, especially as I tend to come across as very confident but actually its a facade! However I do not have problems with men 'coming on to me' and have actually been told by a number (including 2 who I tried to see at various times) that there is 'something' about me, a feeling that I am 'untouchable'. That sounds wierd and it is! But I think it shows that sometimes you just give out the signs that you are unavailable by far more than what you wear etc. I do dress modestly, but not especially conservatively - ie nothing is 'on show' but I try to look nice and love girly clothes. I also do spend a lot of time on my own with men - I have always had more male friends than girlfriends, I find them (on the whole) far more sensible and down to earth. I have even lived with men (as flatmates) a number of times and thought nothing of walking about the house in my nighty etc.


I think who you choose to mix with plays a bigger role than what you wear, to be honest. I am not someone who says Catholics should only have Catholic friends, or even Christian friends, but I do think its best to spend most time with people whose morals are such that you are not uncomfortable in their company. I think this is probably especially true for you as a new convert, while you grow into your new faith.

[Basilisa Marie]

I had a problem with flirting, too, often not even realizing when I was doing it, to the point of sometimes inadvertently leading guys on. It's something that I had to consciously work on, even now that I've had a boyfriend for about 2 1/2 years (although it's gotten considerably easier now that I'm with him). For me, I had to actually think about what I was specifically doing and making sure it couldn't be construed as flirty. I think behaviors are far more powerful than anything you're wearing. Simple stuff, like making sure I didn't smile to much exclusively at him in a group (I'm not sure how to describe it...there can be a special "knowing" smile), make too much eye contact relative to others, make sure my body wasn't directly facing him in a group (even if my head was looking elsewhere). Make sure the words I was using and particularly my tone was "regular." It might sounds a bit scrupulous, but that was my thought process. I tried as often as I could to check my behavior if I thought I was getting the flirting signals from him.

But sometimes it's not anything you're doing. If you can eliminate your own behavior as a factor as best as you possibly can, then you might have to have a few good ways to let a guy down gently. Not return flirting gestures and such. Guys can usually tell if you're not interested if you won't return their "advances," even if they're subtle. Maybe you can try and figure out if there are any trends to the "attractive" behavior guys seem to exhibit. Does it happen in certain places? Certain times? etc. I mean, guys are going to come up to you more often at a bar than at the store just because that's a typical meetup spot. Doesn't mean that you should never go to bars, but maybe to just be more aware while at them, checking one's behaviors and have a few gentle let downs on hand.

[Sarah147]

[quote name='AudreyGrace' timestamp='1310675086' post='2267463']
Welcome to phatmass!

I'm a single young woman, but I don't typically have a swarm of guys hitting on me. The guys I'm around most of the time know what type of person I am, and that I'm waiting for something really special. The area I live and my circle of friends aren't really that religious- especially the guys, but they know how important my faith is in everything. I don't think you should [b]wear a wedding ring, but maybe a purity ring[/b]? If a guy hits on you and you're friends with him, then perhaps talk with him about where you are in life and that you're waiting and preparing for something special in the making. Talk with your friends about this anyways, even if they're not flirting with you. If a stranger hits on you, just let it pass. If it gets aggressive, then play the husband card. ([b]Or the lesbian card[/b], I've done that before. Only because the guy was saying how he'd be better than any man for me, on and on.. lol). Also, it takes a little more than dressing modestly. We have to be modest in our actions and speech; it's hard being daughters of God! I'm not saying you don't by any means at all, obviously. I'm sure you know all that, so it's just a reminder.
[/quote]


I've just started wearing a $9 ring that looks like a wedding ring. I'm not worrying about chasing away "the one" because I'm discerning the Religious Life seriously, so no marriage in my future as far as I know. If a guy tries to hit on me and doesn't see the ring, I'll tell him I "have a husband" (Jesus) because in a way, I feel engaged or married to Jesus in being a Catholic, and especially since I want to be a Sister.

I think a purity ring is a great idea for those open to marriage but not looking yet.

The lesbian thing sounds like a good idea if you get someone really rough hitting on you!

[MithLuin]

I do not usually get hit on, either, but I do not think it is automatically the girl's fault if she does. Sometimes, she's giving off 'open for business' vibes. And sometimes, the guys are just sleazy. The fault could be on either side, or a combination - it's simply a product of our fallen world.

Travelling in genuinely Catholic circles, I do not have that problem. By this I mean, when I socialize with Catholic young adults who are in some way sincerely living out their faith - part of a Bible study group or attending Holy Hour - I'm not going to run into the expectation that a casual sexual relationship will ensue. That crowd tends to 'get' sexual morality. I mean, what guy would hit on a girl in that way after reading and discussing St. Augustine's [i]Confessions[/i]?

If you are a new convert, I could see how it would be difficult to begin socializing with new people, but see what is available at your parish or in your area. If you flirt with the cute guy who also volunteers at the soup kitchen, he's not all that likely to be mentioning that he carries a condom!


Start by considering dress/hair/makeup/jewelry. Is there anything about your appearance that would convey 'skank'? If so, consider changing it. If your appearance is 'modest and stylish', no need to switch to a burqua to get your point across. But consider altering it in a way to convey your faith more boldly. Can you wear a crucifix/cross necklace? What about a rosary/Mary bracelet? Go for 'more modest' with covered shoulders or long flowing skirts. Perhaps slightly more simple/plain would reflect your newfound zeal for things not of this world. This is really just an opportunity for you to take stock and consider how others see you and what message you wish to convey.

Next consider your nuisance. Is there a particular location where guys bother you? Is it a certain age group or ethnicity that feels the need to act this way towards you? If you can identify the common factor, you may be able to avoid the situation more easily. But if it's catcalls from Hispanic guys while walking down the street (or something equally impersonal), simply ignoring the interaction is probably the best you can do.

It might seem difficult to find 'a good Catholic guy', but I assure you, they exist. Maybe you're not ready to meet one right now, so just pray that God will introduce you in His time...and ask for His help in chasing off and avoiding these stumbling blocks!

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Lisa' timestamp='1310673861' post='2267457']
Don't go with the fake wedding ring, because you would keep away the person you are meant to be with [/quote]

[quote name='MaterMisericordiae' timestamp='1310697185' post='2267595']
I would advise you not to do the fake wedding ring thing. Like someone else said, you could potentially push away the person you are meant to be with. [/quote]

[quote name='MaterMisericordiae' timestamp='1310697185' post='2267595']
But you may find that the person you are meant to be with may come along sooner than you think.
[/quote]

Who says that there is one person that we are [b]meant to be with[/b]? Where is that in [b]official[/b] Church teaching?

[quote name='fides' Jack' timestamp='1310668001' post='2267428']
If you think it's your mission to live the single life, then I think you have to expect that from guys. Or go be a hermit, somewhere.
[/quote]

I agree. If one does not have an impediment to marriage, one is "fair game", so to speak, to be looked upon as a potential spouse, and it is not wrong (until it rises to the level of harassment). Male or female. It's a normal part of life since the beginning of the human race. Deal with it.

Edited July 16, 2011 by Norseman82

[missionseeker]

[quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1310784467' post='2268042']
I do not usually get hit on, either, but I do not think it is automatically the girl's fault if she does. Sometimes, she's giving off 'open for business' vibes. And sometimes, the guys are just sleazy. The fault could be on either side, or a combination - it's simply a product of our fallen world.


[/quote]


I don't think it's a product of the fallen world... I think God designed us to find spouses. I don't think that hitting on someone is necessarily evil. Of course it can be sleazy, but it not necessarily so.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1310842634' post='2268263']
I don't think it's a product of the fallen world... I think God designed us to find spouses. I don't think that hitting on someone is necessarily evil. Of course it can be sleazy, but it not necessarily so.
[/quote]

Well said.

[missionseeker]

I also wouldn't over analyze the situation. You being hit on does NOT mean that you are dressing or acting immodestly. And you shouldn't think of it as something that you should be ashamed of. Sure, it can be annoying, and some guys go WAY too far with it. But really, it's not something that should make you think "Omygosh, I must be doing something to encourage this". My own personal experience is that if there is someone who is consistently hitting on you (and you have no interest in dating), then make it clear that you are not interested. You can do this without sitting down and calling the person out. You can say things (around them) like "I really enjoy my life right now. I think that being single is really good for me right now" or "I don't generally date guys who... (and name something that he does or whatever). Generally guys DO pick up on hints like that. And if they don't then it's NOT your fault.

I hate the mindset that it's the woman's fault. I'm not saying that aren't things that women can do that will initiate and encourage that behavior in guys, but I am saying that we shouldn't doubt own modesty or think that we are doing something wrong or leading our brothers to sin. It's detrimental to US. If we question every little thing that we do or say or wear, we will have NO peace! If we buy into to the lie that our bodies are foremost instruments of sin to guys and that we should hide them, that causes us to be unable to love ourselves (and therefore others) as Christ loves us. I struggled with this for a very long time. If you have guy friends who hit on you after you demanding that they don't, then get new guy friends. Don't let the bad apples ruin the whole barrel. Don't let it ruin your own peace of mind.

[BG45]

[quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1310848002' post='2268297']
. If you have guy friends who hit on you after you demanding that they don't, then get new guy friends. Don't let the bad apples ruin the whole barrel. Don't let it ruin your own peace of mind.
[/quote]