Dunking The Host/intinction

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' timestamp='1310323492' post='2265365']
I had heard about it, and every so often I heard of people doing it and getting scolded by the priest for it. But I attended mass at a church today that I normally don't like to attend and the priest told the congregation (specifically the east Indians) that if they weren't used to taking the wine and were concerned about hygiene they could take the host and dunk it in the wine.

What???

I thought this wasn't permitted, at least in the Latin rite. Can the priest permit people to do this? I know this is done in eastern rites but it's done by the priest, not by yourself.

?????
[/quote]
Okay... when I first saw this thread, I was thinking of a family of east Indians at my parish who used to do this. I don't think they do anymore, though. So, I was wondering.... is it common among Indians?

[faithcecelia]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' timestamp='1310462347' post='2266271']
Okay... when I first saw this thread, I was thinking of a family of east Indians at my parish who used to do this. I don't think they do anymore, though. So, I was wondering.... is it common among Indians?
[/quote]


I think it is. At New Dawn they always made a point of reminding people its prohibited whilst acknowledging its common in some cultures, and there was always a large number of Indians there.


I [i]think[/i] it was also mentioned when my parish priest gave us a catechisis session in Mass once, as he had become aware of one or two things that were happening that shouldn't and wanted everyone to know how it should be done. We were a very multicultural parish.









Ash Wednesday - I hadn't realised you were in the Uk, seriously, mention it to the priest and if necessary the Bishop, its something that comes up reasonably often and the bishops are very keen to remind everyone that it is not allowed.

[katholikkid]

My God don't contact the bishop. Eastern Rite Christians intinct the host themselves. I go to a parish at home that is Latin Rite and many Byzantine Catholics attend and indeed intinct. The hygiene thing is stupid but the bishop has bigger fish to fry and this is not a serious infraction plus it is not a liturgical abuse as there is precedence and active use by many Catholics. Only contact the bishop if there is grave desecration of the species not for something like this. By the way people, your local Ordinary is not someone you tattle to about your feelings concerning mass unless there is obvious disrespect shown to the host and precious blood. If the Bishop were at the parish and he saw the Indians intinct he would not be shocked because he knows that is what some of them do. As I said the hygiene thing is stupid but unless it is an everyday thing who knows, maybe the priest has a cold a parishioner came beforehand and told him he was ill with mono or something. When the swine flu epidemic was on our campus the priests announced no chalice and no receiving on the tongue.

[carmenchristi]

[quote name='katholikkid' timestamp='1310471535' post='2266294']
My God don't contact the bishop. Eastern Rite Christians intinct the host themselves. I go to a parish at home that is Latin Rite and many Byzantine Catholics attend and indeed intinct. The hygiene thing is stupid but the bishop has bigger fish to fry and this is not a serious infraction plus it is not a liturgical abuse as there is precedence and active use by many Catholics. Only contact the bishop if there is grave desecration of the species not for something like this. By the way people, your local Ordinary is not someone you tattle to about your feelings concerning mass unless there is obvious disrespect shown to the host and precious blood. If the Bishop were at the parish and he saw the Indians intinct he would not be shocked because he knows that is what some of them do. As I said the hygiene thing is stupid but unless it is an everyday thing who knows, maybe the priest has a cold a parishioner came beforehand and told him he was ill with mono or something. When the swine flu epidemic was on our campus the priests announced no chalice and no receiving on the tongue.
[/quote]

Which Rite of the Oriental Church would you be referring to? There are dozens. As far as I know, in ALL the Eastern Rites the consecrated bread (which is more like actual bread than like the hosts we use for Mass) is put in the chalice of the Precious blood and become a soggy kind of mush. Communion is distributed by dropping a spoonful of the consecrated species directly into the mouth of the communicant.

It may very well be that the Byzantine Catholics at your parish DO self intinct, but that would be from ignorance. It is absolutely forbidden.

About contacting the Bishop, I agree that a quiet one-on-one with the priest is better. But if this doesn't work, you can still express your concern to the Bishop in a very respectful way, and absolutely without accusing or "tattle-tailing", or making long explainations of why it is wrong. Just say: this is what happens, this is what I said to the priest, this is his response to me, I thought I would bring it to your attention and leave the situation to your judgement. Thank you. Period.

The bishop has a right to know what is happening in his diocese.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='katholikkid' timestamp='1310471535' post='2266294']
My God don't contact the bishop. Eastern Rite Christians intinct the host themselves. I go to a parish at home that is Latin Rite and many Byzantine Catholics attend and indeed intinct. The hygiene thing is stupid but the bishop has bigger fish to fry and this is not a serious infraction plus it is not a liturgical abuse as there is precedence and active use by many Catholics. Only contact the bishop if there is grave desecration of the species not for something like this. By the way people, your local Ordinary is not someone you tattle to about your feelings concerning mass unless there is obvious disrespect shown to the host and precious blood. If the Bishop were at the parish and he saw the Indians intinct he would not be shocked because he knows that is what some of them do. As I said the hygiene thing is stupid but unless it is an everyday thing who knows, maybe the priest has a cold a parishioner came beforehand and told him he was ill with mono or something. When the swine flu epidemic was on our campus the priests announced no chalice and no receiving on the tongue.
[/quote]
Ignoring rubrics surrounding distribution of the Eucharist is *always* a grave and very serious issue.

[dominicansoul]

why are peeps afraid of germs when it comes to receiving the Eucharist? what little Faith people have!

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='katholikkid' timestamp='1310471535' post='2266294']the bishop has bigger fish to fry[/quote]Wrong.
[quote]and this is not a serious infraction plus[/quote]Wrong.
[quote] it is not a liturgical abuse[/quote]Wrong.
[quote] as there is precedence and active use by many Catholics.[/quote]
Oh right, I forgot about the logical principle "If everyone else is doing it, it's okay."
[quote]When the swine flu epidemic was on our campus the priests announced no chalice and no receiving on the tongue.
[/quote]
Which are both acceptable means of preventing the spread of disease. Self-intinction is not.

[Groo the Wanderer]

oy vey! Should be no debate here folks. Rubrics/GIRM is very clear here.

In the Roman Rite, intinction is allowed, but only by the priest. Self-intinction is not allowed at all.
In some Eastern Rites, intinction is not only allowed by both priest and laity, but is the norm.


It is up to the person designated by the pastor as the EHMC trainer to make sure they know what to do if someone attempts to intinct. The EMHC should quickly place their hand over the chalice and in a very kind and gentle voice tell the communicant that self-intinction is not allowed under the Roman Rite. If done compassionately and without fanfare there should be no issue. I have had this happen to me exactly once over the past 4 years.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

Since you're in England, Ash Wednesday, maybe somebody got confused and thought self-intinction was okay in the Roman Catholic church because the Anglicans allow self-intinction. (It's not the usual way to distribute communion in the Anglican church, but it IS allowed, and some people do it if they have a cold, or something like that.)

Some practices of the Anglican and Roman Catholic churches are similar, but self-intinction is not one of them. However, particularly if a person was from India, where I assume there are Anglicans because of the long period of rule by the British, maybe they got confused.

[faithcecelia]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1310485310' post='2266349']
Ignoring rubrics surrounding distribution of the Eucharist is *always* a grave and very serious issue.
[/quote]


Definately. I'm not one who believes in doing something the way we do it just because its the way we do it, but this is a very serious issue and not something we can pick and choose about. It is also something that the bishops (at least in England and Wales) have been putting special emphasis on in the last 5yrs or so, hence it has been being reinforced in parishes and other gatherings where there is potential for confusion. Self-intinction is forbidden, the bishops have been asking the priests to ensure communicants know its forbidden, therefore in this circumstance if the priests choose to ignore the bishops, I think its right the bishops are (carefully and humbly) informed.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1310487448' post='2266358']
Wrong.
Wrong.
Wrong.

Oh right, I forgot about the logical principle "If everyone else is doing it, it's okay."

Which are both acceptable means of preventing the spread of disease. Self-intinction is not.
[/quote]
in a completely chaste way, i love you.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1310493574' post='2266395']
in a completely chaste way, i love you.
[/quote]

[Sarah147]

Oh, but intinction by a Priest alone is permitted...

Edited July 12, 2011 by JoyfulLife

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1310324096' post='2265371'][quote][104.] The communicant must not be permitted to intinct the host himself in the chalice, nor to receive the intincted host in the hand. As for the host to be used for the intinction, it should be made of valid matter, also consecrated; it is altogether forbidden to use non-consecrated bread or other matter.


[/quote]
[url="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html"]Redemptionis Sacramentum[/url]
[/quote]

[Sarah147]

[quote][left][103.] The norms of the Roman Missal admit the principle that in cases where Communion is administered under both kinds, “the Blood of the Lord may be received either by drinking from the chalice directly, or by intinction, or by means of a tube or a spoon”.[url="http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:VcrHVOUPXesJ:www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html+intinction+site:vatican.va&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.#_ftn191"][191][/url] As regards the administering of Communion to lay members of Christ’s faithful, the Bishops may exclude Communion with the tube or the spoon where this is not the local custom, though the option of administering Communion by intinction always remains. If this modality is employed, however, hosts should be used which are neither too thin nor too small, and the communicant should receive the Sacrament from the Priest only on the tongue.[url="http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:VcrHVOUPXesJ:www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html+intinction+site:vatican.va&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.#_ftn192"][192][/url][/quote][/left]