Vatican Reminder: Sspx Ordinations Are Illegitimate

[vee]

Ill be joining the Movementarians before I sign up with the SSPX. I mean a new and better life awaits us on our distant home planet Blistonia, known for its high levels of bliss! Can the SSPX possibly offer me more?

Edited September 7, 2011 by vee8

[Aloysius]

well, you're a girl, so no worries, you can't join the priestly fraternity of SSPX, only priests can be members

[Aloysius]

I still think the problems in the Church will not be solved until we insist upon altar girls wearing mantillas.

[bernard]

[quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1315368423' post='2301443']
yes, that's the position I just stated that the SSPX holds.

I think it's about time for this thread to die.
[/quote]
Wasn't arguing, just thought that interview gave a more detailed account of their position. Well of their original position.
I'm not so sure what Bp Fellay's view is, people are starting to call them the neo-SSPX

[Groo the Wanderer]

i don't understand why they just don;t go FSSP

[dominicansoul]

because, Groo, the FSSP does not consider the Novus Ordo a "bastard" Mass, they don't believe Vatican II was a major mistake, they don't think they are the only True Catholics living in the world today, they don't think that somehow, the Holy Spirit really messed up and the Church took a turn for the worse, is undersiege by satanic forces and the hierarchy is filled with a crock of mushy mud pie...

...in other words... FSSP's character is marked by humble obedience to Holy Mother Church and trust that no matter how lousy catholics can be, Jesus' words stand true, and hell will never prevail against His Bride...

i have much hope that the SSPX will reunite with Rome, just as I have hope that the Protestants will return home, the Jews will suddenly believe Jesus is the Messiah, and the Jehovah's Witnesses who knock on my door will come in and compliment my Blessed Mother statue...

there is always hope!

[Papist]

[quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1315345250' post='2301254']
where does the SSPX claim not to be in the Church, papist?
[/quote]
I did not say SSPX claimed not to be in the Church. Let me try to state it another way. The SSPX's website leads one to belief that they are not part of the Church, i.e. outside the Church. I am not challenging the SSPX not being inside the Church...rather that if they are, their website itself challenges that. I find that very peculiar.


[quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1315345250' post='2301254']
bernard, the SSPX's reasons for disobedience, as discussed earlier, are that they believe a state of "emergency" exists within the Church and that thus they are permitted by canon law to act this way. the supreme legislature of the Church says they don't have the authority to declare such an emergency and that they are wrong, but that is their reasoning: legit pope, state of emergency.
[/quote]
Would this be the same canon they reject or at best reject the codes they disagree with[that sounds familiar]?

[Papist]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1315384171' post='2301488']
i don't understand why they just don;t go FSSP
[/quote]
What DS said.

Edited September 7, 2011 by Papist

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

[quote name='Aragonn' timestamp='1310007570' post='2263877']
The best thing I got from this was that they're ordaining 20 priests in one year. Only about one million Catholics attend SSPX run chapels. There are dioceses out there with far more resources, priests and faithful who haven't seen an ordination class that size since the 50's.

Prayers for the quick regularization of the SSPX
[/quote]

Trust in the ruling of the holy/holy magesterium, jesus states the devil can appear as a false angel of light, very close to the original but a black market fake so to speak, but please understand i am not saying this is so for sspx but possibly,think and pray about it and read the gospels 50 times if you need too infact pray the gospels check out lectio divina it is a timless way to pray the bible and not just read it, take care be aware. the society of saint pius the 10th is possibly in schism, sspx as far as i'm aware deny the legitemacy of every pope after pius the 10th, is kind of the word of god look closely, " you will be delt the same measure that you measure others with " now there priesthood is being measured the same so to speak. Hopefully they repent if thats what god and the magesterium wan't and are not ex-communicated, and also we must remember whom is to recieve the most of the blame,the head or the followers, in that i don't believe any of the layity following this movement will be ex-communicated but always welcome back into communion with the holy roman catholic church.

God bless you all.
JC "knock and the door will be opened,seek and ye shall find "

[mortify]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1315398104' post='2301533']
What DS said.
[/quote]

I think from the SSPX perspective the FSSP have compromised. They have submitted themsleves to the very Bishops who have destroyed the tradition they value. From Archbishop Levebre's point of view, ordaining bishops was of absolute necessity to preserve the liturgy, sacrements, and theology of the Latin Rite. Ironically, had it not been for him, we likely would have never had an indult. The indult was used as a token to match the liturgy the SSPX offered, although for decades it was extremely limited, it's existence depending solely on the whim of the Bishop.

Although I agree with preserving, and perhaps even restoring much of the traditional rite universally, I think we have to recognize that what brought us into this disaster was much deeper. What we really have to restore is a solid Catholic spirituality.

[MithLuin]

[quote name='mortify' timestamp='1316874819' post='2309235']
I think we have to recognize that what brought us into this disaster was much deeper. What we really have to restore is a solid Catholic spirituality.
[/quote]

Bingo-se!

Renewal is always a much deeper matter than the externals that go along with it. There is a spiritual emptiness (bankruptness?) to much of modern culture, and until we seek and achieve conversion of heart, that's not gonna change.

[bernard]

[quote name='mortify' timestamp='1316874819' post='2309235']

Although I agree with preserving, and perhaps even restoring much of the traditional rite universally, I think we have to recognize that what brought us into this disaster was much deeper. What we really have to restore is a solid Catholic spirituality.
[/quote]


What exactly do you mean when you say "solid Catholic spirituality"?

[Papist]

[quote name='mortify' timestamp='1316874819' post='2309235']

I think from the SSPX perspective the FSSP have compromised. They have submitted themsleves to the very Bishops who have destroyed the tradition they value. From Archbishop Levebre's point of view, ordaining bishops was of absolute necessity to preserve the liturgy, sacrements, and theology of the Latin Rite. Ironically, had it not been for him, we likely would have never had an indult. The indult was used as a token to match the liturgy the SSPX offered, although for decades it was extremely limited, it's existence depending solely on the whim of the Bishop.

Although I agree with preserving, and perhaps even restoring much of the traditional rite universally, I think we have to recognize that what brought us into this disaster was much deeper. What we really have to restore is a solid Catholic spirituality.
[/quote]
Interesting...but ummm... why does Levebre/SSPX decide what is Sacred Tradition? And who gives him/them such authority?

[Aloysius]

Archbishop Lefebvre is a successor to the Apostles who desperately tried to pass on what was given to him without alteration, nothing more and nothing less. He wasn't just some average shlub picking and choosing things, and I think it's unfair to paint him as such. very unfair. thinking of how many mitered heads are nothing but kushy bureaucrats who won't risk preaching on difficult teachings in the Church for fear of offending the liberals, it's pretty impressive to think of an archbishop who risked so much on principal and faith, regardless of whether you think he was right or wrong.

Lefebvre's society has much to contribute to an authentic Catholic spirituality, IMO, which is why the reconciliation would be very beneficial to the Church.

do they have the authority to determine what is or is not Sacred Tradition? well, as bishops their opinion certainly holds weight, and they do indeed have a lot of historical truth on their side. if there is no anathema in the Council, then holding to theological opinions that were common prior to the Council is still acceptable after the Council, including holding the theological opinion that teachings on religious tolerance and liberty, ecumenism, and ecclesiology are part of Sacred Tradition.

back to Lefebvre, though the source is un-named, I don't doubt the veracity of this anecdote posted on Rorate:
[quote]Recently, a prelate of the Curia, after having read the book "On priestly holiness" ("[i]La [/i]s[i]ainteté sacerdotale[/i]"), by Archbishop Lefebvre, confided, "[i]I cried after a while because I went through seminary and I had never had the priesthood explained to me as he does there. It is a whole world that opens up for us, for no one had explained to us what the priest was.[/i]"[/quote]

there is something for Lefebvre to offer to deepening an authentic Catholic spirituality.

Edited September 27, 2011 by Aloysius

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Pax domine bretheran and others...
I saw this thread and decided recently to bring this topic up with my parish priest, he stated clearly to also remember that the ordination of these priest are illegitimate but valid" so seemingly there is a difference between illigitimate and invalid. The only way i can look at it from my stupidity is that a child out of wed lock still has the right to live and have a relationship with both mother and father or one or the other if both aren't available for whatever reason. Mind you as i said a pretty poor example am sure when it comes to the priesthood is somewhat different and more difficult to assertain the difference between illigitimate and a branch that needs to be cut of from the vine because it has incured a serious disease that could spread through the whole vine. But than god knows i am somewhat of a simpleton and that my parish priest didn't have tie to go into detail to explain to me the ins and outs of what he meant by saying there vocations are illegitimate but not invalid. Maybe he trusts me enough to let me put the rest together.

aight God Bless you all