Conservatism Has Lost Touch With Reality

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Debra Little' timestamp='1310080395' post='2264160']
I'm Catholic. But what's in the Word of God over rides everything else, the hierarchy included.
[/quote]
Actually then, you have a misunderstanding of the Church. The Church is composed of three things: Tradition, Scripture, and the Magisterium ( teaching office). All three go together like the legs of a the- legged stool. If you read the Scriptures it says "The Church is the pillar and foundation".

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1310112914' post='2264364']
are you by any chance saying the Patriot act is a just law? exactly how is that?
[/quote]

oops for some reason last night i got mixed up and thought i was in my thread on the Patriot act. but since i wasnt, me asking this makes no sense.

[quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1310113929' post='2264367']
the patriot act is not just.

your saying that abortion is wrong but we should keep it legal because some politicians want to criminalize miscarrages. so by that logic we should get rid of healthcare because some politicians wants to criminalize not getting it. this point of view can be used on any law.
[/quote]

and no. I never said we should keep abortion legal. I am saying that the fact that some politicians want to criminalize miscarriages makes them both out of touch, idiots and cruel.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1310134989' post='2264426']
oops for some reason last night i got mixed up and thought i was in my thread on the Patriot act. but since i wasnt, me asking this makes no sense.



and no. I never said we should keep abortion legal. I am saying that the fact that some politicians want to criminalize miscarriages makes them both out of touch, idiots and cruel.
[/quote]


then it was my mistake. i thought you were saying because some politicians were out of touch and trying to charge women who have miscarrigaes that we should just keep abortion legal because if not we will have some crazy politicians who try to punish women who have miscarriges.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1310135259' post='2264427']
then it was my mistake. i thought you were saying because some politicians were out of touch and trying to charge women who have miscarrigaes that we should just keep abortion legal because if not we will have some crazy politicians who try to punish women who have miscarriges.
[/quote]

yeah, definitely not my thinking. although when politicians use anti abortion laws to do stupid stuff like criminalize miscarriages, it makes it easier to justify getting rid of those laws

[havok579257]

i think anyone who thinks one political party is in touch with reality and the other is not is off their rocker. liberals are just as out of touch with reality as conservatives are. conservatives want to cut nearly all spending unless it is stuff they want to spend on. conservatives want to cut money from the poor but have no problem spending millions on the military. liberals want non stop spending and government intrusion on nealry everything unless its something they don't want it for. liberals want to tell you what foods you are allowed to eat, what foods are allowed to be sold and they want to be able to make medical decisions for you against your will when it comes to smoking and being overweight. although when it comes to abortion, they want the government to stay out of your medical decision to kill your own baby.

they are both so far ouot of touch with reality its scary. niether party is right, both are wrong. its delusional to think one is right and one is wrong.

Edited July 8, 2011 by havok579257

[Debra Little]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1310131010' post='2264416']
Actually then, you have a misunderstanding of the Church. The Church is composed of three things: Tradition, Scripture, and the Magisterium ( teaching office). All three go together like the legs of a the- legged stool. If you read the Scriptures it says "The Church is the pillar and foundation".
[/quote]

God's Word overrides the other two. Only His Word is inspired.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Debra Little' timestamp='1310139280' post='2264458']
God's Word overrides the other two. Only His Word is inspired.
[/quote]


what about when the holy spirit speaks thru the pope when the pope declares ex cathedra and that is infalliable?

debra, can you please lay out your position because i honestly do not understand where you stand. your tag says you don't rep the pope but you say catholic under religion. i am confused. do you agree with and follow church teaching 100% or not? you keep saying things like God's law seperate from church law and such. so what's your stance on the catholic church?

[kujo]

[quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1310135569' post='2264431']
niether party is right, both are wrong. its delusional to think one is right and one is wrong.
[/quote]

Well, one [b]is[/b] "right" while the other [b]is[/b] "left."

Just sayin'

[Socrates]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1310069780' post='2264093']
On this much, we agree. But I also see the need for uniformity of law; what's "legal" in one state should be "legal" in all states.
[/quote]
On this, I strongly disagree, as would the American founding fathers, including the framers of the Constitution.

The entire Bill of Rights sets limits on the power and scope of the Federal Government. The founders believed in a system of checks and balances with limited central power. Those powers not specifically granted to the federal government by the Constitution were reserved to the individual states or the people.

To insist that all laws be the same in all states would be an invitation to federal tyranny. While its easy to support "uniformity of law" across the states when proposing a law you think is good, the founders saw the dangers inherent in centralized government power. A bad law can only do so much damage if enacted only in certain states, rather than forced on all states, whether the people of every state want that law or not.
I live in Texas, and don't want the will of people in New York, Massachusetts, Michigan, or California dictating how we do things in Texas, even if they have an advantage in numbers. I'm sure the people of the aforementioned states would feel the same way about Texans dictating their state policy.

If the laws are to be exactly the same in every state, then what is the point of the Tenth Amendment, or even of having individual state governments in the first place?

And, incidentally, this view is in conformity with the principle of subsidiarity taught by the Church, which teaches that matters should always be handled on the smaller, local level, before they are touched by higher, more centralized, levels of government.

If you believe strongly that something ought to be national law binding on all states that involves a power not delegated to the federal government by the Constitution, then an amendment to the Constitution should be proposed to Congress and the proper legal procedures followed, rather than Supreme Court justices simply ruling according to their own opinions in disregard of the actual words of the Constitution, and effectively legislating from the bench.
Unfortunately, the latter has become standard practice for many decades now, resulting in such travesties of law and justice as Roe V. Wade.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Debra Little' timestamp='1310080320' post='2264159']
The Cathlic Hierarchy! and their stance on LGBT's. Before you blast me about my answer I obey whatever the rules of the Church are
but I don't have to agree with them. First and foremost I obey God and if I keep the rules of the Church I
am already doing that.
[/quote]
Oh, yeah, that awful Catholic Hierarchy, of course! How could I forget, regular little Hitlers, claiming homosexual activity to be immoral just like that horrible Saint Paul the Apostle!
(And never mind, of course, that many of the hierarchy are not political conservatives.)

[quote name='Debra Little' timestamp='1310080395' post='2264160']
I'm Catholic. But what's in the Word of God over rides everything else, the hierarchy included.
[/quote]
Ok, here's the Word of God:

[quote][b]You shall not lie with mankind as with womankind: because it is an abomination.[/b][/quote]~Leviticus 18:22

[quote]For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. [b]For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature. And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy[/b], and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error.[/quote]~ Romans 1:26-27

[quote]Do not err: Neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers:[b] Nor the effeminate nor liers with mankind[/b] nor thieves nor covetous nor drunkards nor railers nor extortioners shall possess the kingdom of God.[/quote]! 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Both the inerrant Word of God and the inerrant teachings of Christ's One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church override the opinions of Debra Little.

[Socrates]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1310129663' post='2264402']
No need to apologize. Unlike others on here who burst a vessel whenever someone fails to correctly divinate one's proper sex based on a random avatar and an asexual username, I am not offended.




This is one of those myths of conservative economics.

DEMAND creates jobs, my friend. And not a small amount of demand, an overwhelming amount of demand, that puts the overall wealth and prosperity of the company in jeopardy if not acquiesced to.

I look at it like at the store I work at. A few years ago, when the recession struck, we had to lay off a bunch of people. For a time that limited our ability to be super-visible on the salesfloor (company policy) and, for awhile, our sales goals weren't met. However, eventually, we learned to adapt and changed the way we did things so that we were able to meet and, over time, exceed our sales goals. Now it's almost down to a science, and our sales have been up this year, just as they were last year. Yet the company STILL isn't increasing our payroll.

Why?

Because they're making more money now that they've got LESS people on the payroll. There isn't an overwhelming need for more hires--we've adapted and are doing just fine, despite having been short-staffed for about 2 or 3 years. However, a time will come when we cannot contend any longer with a bare-bones staff. Consequently, new hires will be brought in, but only on an absolute minimum capacity. Afterall, for the company, profit is paramount.

That's the thing to recognize here. There's no magic number of tax percentages or incentives or policies that will create an environment where jobs are created [i]en masse[/i]; rather, the companies that have survived this recession have learned that there is no need to have large payrolls. They've learned the [i]true[/i] value of economic conservatism. That lesson, unfortunately, is continuing to bite this country--and our dismal unemployment rate-- in the arse.
[/quote]
Sorry, but I don't see how any of that refutes "conservative economics" (whatever exactly that means - do you mean free market economics?), or what your proposed solution to economic problems would be.

Certainly, raising taxes on "the rich" (however defined) will do nothing to increase employment, and will likely have the opposite effect. Higher taxes=less profit=less hiring. And increased unemployment feeds the cycle. Without wealth being created (which is done by market activity of production and selling, not by the government), the demand does not matter. There are plenty of things I would demand if I had the money, but as I do not, I can not buy them.

No, there's no "magic bullet" which will immediately fix all our economic woes, but the best thing is for government to stop meddling in the economy. This recession was brought about by artificial government manipulation of the money supply, and more meddling, whether by "liberals" or "conservatives" will only make things worse in the long run.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1310135470' post='2264430']
yeah, definitely not my thinking. although when politicians use anti abortion laws to do stupid stuff like criminalize miscarriages, it makes it easier to justify getting rid of those laws
[/quote]
Can you give one actual example of a politician who criminalized miscarriages, or even proposed to do so?

Yet another ridiculous hysterical bogeyman created by the pro-abortion Left.

[kujo]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1310148031' post='2264530']

If the laws are to be exactly the same in every state, then what is the point of the Tenth Amendment, or even of having individual state governments in the first place?
[/quote]

My point is that "rights" should be the same in every state. Wasn't that the point of the Antebellum Amendments? To make sure that there weren't any more "slave states" and "free states?"

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1310149677' post='2264549']
Sorry, but I don't see how any of that refutes "conservative economics" (whatever exactly that means - do you mean free market economics?), or what your proposed solution to economic problems would be.

Certainly, raising taxes on "the rich" (however defined) will do nothing to increase employment, and will likely have the opposite effect. Higher taxes=less profit=less hiring. And increased unemployment feeds the cycle. Without wealth being created (which is done by market activity of production and selling, not by the government), the demand does not matter. There are plenty of things I would demand if I had the money, but as I do not, I can not buy them.

No, there's no "magic bullet" which will immediately fix all our economic woes, but the best thing is for government to stop meddling in the economy. This recession was brought about by artificial government manipulation of the money supply, and more meddling, whether by "liberals" or "conservatives" will only make things worse in the long run.
[/quote]

None of what you just said disagrees with my post. I think you just have a pathological inability to say "Kujo, I agree with you." It's probably because I'm a doosh.

In any case, sure. I endorse all of what you just said.

[kujo]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1310149871' post='2264550']
Yet another ridiculous hysterical bogeyman created by the pro-abortion Left.
[/quote]

Says the foremost creator and perpetrator of ridiculous, hysterical bogeyman from the Catholic right!

[kujo]

Soc,

Would you agree or disagree with the following sentence:

[quote]Businesses aren’t holding back because they lack confidence in government policies; they’re holding back because they don’t have enough customers — a problem that would be made worse, not better, by short-term spending cuts.[/quote]