Where Did The Bible Come From?

[MC Just]

Your churches claim bible this and bible that but why is it they fail to mention where it came from? Are they affraid it might shed a little light on the Catholic Church?

[NewReformation]

The Bible came from God.

[DojoGrant]

So God wrote it down on paper? That's a cop-out answer, no offense. All things are from God, but not all things are the Bible.

[MC Just]

It was God who inspired the hands to write it, but whose hands were used? I'm talking about the New Testament scriptures and the compiling of the Old Testament and New. Ya'll can't even say it can you? It didnt just fall out of the sky. Who were the people who safeguarded and put the Old and New Testaments together? History tells us it's the same people who Anti-Catholics call "Enemies of the word"

Edited April 26, 2004 by MC Just

[ironmonk]

[quote name='NewReformation' date='Apr 26 2004, 11:43 AM'] The Bible came from God. [/quote]
If the bible came from God, how did man get it on paper?


God Bless,
ironmonk

[Isidore]

I'll bite....

14th - 7th Century BC
Sometime during this rather large block of time, the Pentateuch (the first five books of the Bible) took its final form.

Traditional Conservative View: The Pentateuch was written by Moses during Israel's wilderness period, with additions made after his death, perhaps by Joshua. Since archeology has now proven that writing existed in the time of Moses, and since Moses would probably have been educated in the palace, it is not unlikely that he would have been his people's scribe as well as their leader.

Liberal View: Liberal scholars believe the Pentateuch is a compilation of a variety of sources and that it was edited into its final form during the Babylonian Exile. They consider the songs of Deborah and of Miriam to be among the oldest writings of the Old Testament. The liberal view relies on the documentary hypothesis, which speculates that the Pentateuch utilized the following sources:

1. Yahwist - Presumably written during David's reign, it refers to God as Yahweh.
2. Elohist - Presumably written in the northern part of the divided kingdom, around the 9th century BC, it refers to God as Elohim.
3. Deuteronomic - Presumably, the Deuteronomic code was written during the reign of Hezekiah. Scholars accepting this hypothesis believe this code is "the book of the law" rediscovered during Josiah's reign. Deuteronomic historians are also credited with writing Joshua, Judges, Samuel, and Kings.
4. Priestly - Finally, it is presumed that during the Exile, the priests collected the previous three sources and edited the Pentateuch into its final form, no doubt adding new material of their own in the process. The Pentateuch was then known as the "Torah" or law.

These sources do not actually physically exist today. Their prior existence is merely a hypothesis based on some scholars' interpretations of the textual evidence.

621 BC
The high priest finds the "Book of the Law" during Josiah's reign, leading to a national revival. Reference to this discovery proves that the book of the law must have existed well before this time; long enough, at least, to have been lost and rediscovered. Liberal scholars assume that the "Book of the Law" refers only to the deuteronomic code, while conservative scholars tend to think it refers to the complete books of Leviticus and/or Deuteronomy.

250 BC - 70 AD Septuagint Compiled
The Septuagint was a Greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures, and it began with just the Pentateuch. Over time, however, it came to include all of the Hebrew scriptures, as well as additional books written in Greek, which Protestants term the "Apocrypha." The Septuagint, including most of the Apocrypha, forms the Old Testament scriptures in the Catholic, Greek, Slavonic, Armenian and Ethiopian Bibles. However, the Catholic Bible omits 3 Ezra (also called 1 Esdras) and the Prayer of Manasseh. The Ethiopian Bible also includes other Pseudepigraphal books not in the Septuagint, such as 1 Enoch and Jubilees. The books of the Apocrypha that the Catholics call "deutercanonical" include 1 and 2 Maccabees, Tobit, Judith, Sirach, Wisdom, and Baruch, as well as additional parts of Esther and Daniel (such as Bel and the Dragon).

210 BC
I and II Macabees, later included in the Septuagint and the apocrypha, were written around this time, recounting the Maccabean Revolt of 167-164 B.C.

200 BC - Prophets
By this date, the prophets are widely accepted as part of the Hebrew Scriptural canon

200 BC - 200 AD Pseudepigraphal Writings
The term pseudepigrapha literally means "false inscriptions." We are aware of at least 52 of these works, which were written by Jews and Christians between 200 B.C. and 200 A.D. Writers often credited their works to famous biblical characters, such as Enoch. Though not part of most Bible canons today, these works influenced both Judaism and Christianity as well as the writers of the Bible. For instance, Jude in his epistle refers to a story from the Assumption of Moses and directly quotes the Book of Enoch.

30 - 40 AD - Sayings of Jesus
Some bible scholars believe the sayings of Jesus were collected during this period and that parts of this document, called the "Q" source by scholars, underlie the gospels of both Matthew and Luke.

59 AD - Paul's Letters
Most of the apostle Paul's letters were in circulation by this date, and they are the first unified Christian writings that have come down to us today.

65 AD - Mark
The Gospel of Mark was probably in circulation by this date.

80 AD - Matthew, Luke, and Acts
The Gospel of Matthew was probably in circulation by this date. It may have been written for the Jewish Christians in Palestine and Syria, who had recently been banned form attending the synagogues. At about this time, a gentile convert to Christianity wrote Luke and the Acts, which are directed at the Greek communities.

90 AD - John
The Gospel of John was probably in circulation by this date.

90 AD - Hebrew Canon Established By This Date
After the destruction of the temple in 70 AD, the Jews began to associate Christianity with the Roman threat. Christians were expelled from the synagogues, and a strict separation between Jews and Christians began to develop. The rabbis met in Jamnia to solidify the canon, and under the leadership of Johanan ben Zakkai they selected twenty-four books to be included in the Palestinian Hebrew Scriptural canon. None of the Apocryphal books were seriously considered for inclusion. The only two books that were hotly debated were Song of Solomon and Ecclesiasties, but they were finally included. The Palestinian canon is the accepted Jewish canon to this day. The canon is also equivalent to the Protestant Old Testament, though Protestants divide the books further into thirty-nine: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy (the Pentateuch); Joshua, Judges, Ruth, 1 Samuel, 2 Samuel, 1 Kings, 2 Kings, 1 Chronicles, 2 Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther (the Histories); Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Songs (Wisdom Literature); Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micha, Nahum, Habbakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, and Malachi (Prophets).

200 AD
Tertullian was the first to use the title "New Testament" to describe the commonly accepted Christian scriptures.

367 AD - Earliest New Testament List
The earliest surviving list of books exactly matching the modern New Testament Canon dates from 367 AD and comes from a festal letter to the churches written by Athanasius of Alexandria. Shortly after this letter, the theologians Jerome and Augustine defined the canon of 27 books.

397 AD - New Testament Canon Officially Established
In A.D. 393, the Synod of Hippo officially listed the 27 books of the New Testament, which had already been widely accepted in practice. This ruling was reconfirmed four years later by the Synod of Carthage in 397 A.D., thus putting an end to debates about the canon. Up to this point, many books had been questioned. Revelation and Hebrews, in particular, were strongly disputed by many Christians, as were James, 2 Peter, and 2 and 3 John. These books were eventually included in the canon but other disputed books, considered inspired by some, were not: Shepherd of Hermas, 1 and 2 Clement, and the Didache. The books selected at the Council of Carthage have been accepted as the New Testament ever since, by both Protestants and Catholics. These books include: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 Thessalonians, 2 Thessalonians, 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon, Hebrews, James, 1 Peter, 2 Peter, 1 John, 2 John, 3 John, Jude, Revelation. (This is the order in which these books are arranged in modern Bibles--they were not always placed in this order.) The disputes are now for all practical purposes at an end, though individuals may continue to question; Martin Luther, after all, questioned whether Revelation should be included.

405 AD - Vulgate
Jerome completed his Latin translation of the Bible, known as The Vulgate, at about this time. He worked with the Septuagint, older Latin translations, and the old Hebrew texts. In doing so, he noticed that some of the works contained in the Septuagint and older Latin translation were not in the Hebrew canon. These books he described as "the crazy wanderings" of a man who has lost his senses. He gave these books the label "Apocrypha," which means "hidden." Nevertheless, they continued to be popular among Christians.

1236 AD
Chapter divisions were added to the Bible by Cardinal Caro.

1382 AD - Wycliffe
The first complete English translation of the Bible was made from the Latin Vulgate by John Wycliffe and his followers. All of Wycliffe's works were condemned at the Council of Florence in 1415.

1408 Council of Oxford
This council forbade translations of the Bible into the vernacular unless approved by Church authority.

1454-1456 - Guttenburg
Access to the Bible was dramatically increased by Guttenburg's invention of the printing press.

1525 - Tyndale's Bible
Tyndale's English translation of the New Testament was made from Erasmus's Greek text and compared to the Vulgate. In 1536, Tyndale was put to death.

1534 - Luther's Bible

By this time, Luther had translated the entire Bible into German (he finsihed the New Testament first). A version was published in 1541 in Wittenberg. In translating the Old Testament, Luther excluded the Apocrypha from the canon. He also assigned a greater value to some New Testament books than to others, considering James, Jude, Hebrews, and Revelation to be inferior.

1535 Miles Coverdale
Coverdale, the first Protestant Bishop of Exeter, published his English Bible translation, which was translated from Latin and German.

1539 The Great Bible
Also known as Cromwell's Bible, it was the first English Bible to be authorized for public use in churches. It was revised in 1561 and was then known as the Bishop's Bible.

1551 AD
Individual verse and numbers were added to the Bible by Robert Stephens.

1557 Geneva Bible
The only New Testament translation to be published during Mary Tudor's reign. It was most likely the Bible Shakespeare read, and it remained the family Bible in England until the Civil War (1642). The text was divided into verses for the first time in any English Bible.

1610 Catholic Bible
A Catholic English translation of the Old Testament was published. Earlier, a New Testament had been translated at Rheims, and some claimed the King James was indebted to it.

1611 King James (Authorized Version)
The most famous English Bible translation was commissioned by King James and included the Apocrypha as an appendix.

1611 Algonquin Bible
This was the first Bible translated into a Native American language.

1885 Revised Version

1901 American Standard Version

1945 Knox Bible
Ronald Knox translated the Bible in an idiomatic style from the Vulgate.

1946 Revised Standard Version
This Version is a rewording of earlier English translations, substitituing modern idiom for archaic language. The Apocrypha was so translated in 1957, and a Catholic version of the RSV appeared in 1966. The New Revised Standard Version came out in 1998 (scroll down in timeline for details).

1947 Dead Sea Scrolls Discovered
Before the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered, the oldest surviving Hebrew Old Testament manuscripts dated form the 9th century (A.D.). The Dead Sea Scrolls, which contain about 170 biblical manuscripts, date from the 3rd century B.C. to the 1st century (A.D.).

1966 Jerusalem Bible
This is the first complete English, Catholic Bible translation made from the original lanaguages.

1970 The New American Bible
The New American Bible was completed primarily by Catholic scholars, and it is the first American Catholic translation based on the original languages. (Previous translations were based on the Vulgate.)

1978 New International Version
This translation, made by Evangelicals and relying directly on the original languages, was finally completed after over two decades of study.

1982 New King James Version

1988 New Revised Standard Version
This version insists on gender neutral language, and was created by a committe of Protestant and Catholic scholars, which included also one Jewish scholar.


So, how does this fit in with your view?

[cmotherofpirl]

You missed all the venacular translations

[MC Just]

[url="http://www.geocities.com/catholic_profide/wbible.htm"]http://www.geocities.com/catholic_profide/wbible.htm[/url]

The Bible Centenary and the Catholic Church

Amid the general jubilation over the three hundredth anniversary of the appearance of King James’s version of the Bible, I think it would be a pity if we did not make mention of that great Church to which, under God, we owe our possession of the sacred Scriptures – I mean of course, the Roman Catholic Church. Without striking one single jarring note, I hope, in the universal chorus, yet I feel it would be rather ungenerous, and indeed historically unjust, did we not turn our eyes at least in passing to that venerable figure standing in the background surveying our celebrations, and, as it were, saying, ‘Rejoice over it, but remember it was from me you got it.’ As a Scotsman, who cannot forget that it is the Bible that has made Scotland largely what she is today, I yield to no one in veneration of the inspired Scriptures and in admiration of the incomparably beautiful Authorized Version. Still, honor to whom honor. We shall only be awarding a just meed of praise and gratitude if we frankly and thankfully recognize that it is to a council (or councils) of the R.C. Church that we owe the collections of the separate books into our present Canon of the New Testament, and that to the loving care and devoted labor o the monks and scholars of that Church all through the ages we are indebted, not only for the multiplication and distribution of the sacred volume among the faithful when as yet no printing press existed, but even for the preservation of the Book from corruption an destruction. It is, then, undoubtedly true to say that, in the present order of Providence, it is owing to the Roman Catholic Church that we have a Bible at all. And no one will be a bit the worse Christian and Bible-lover if he remembers this notable year that it is to the Mother Church of Christendom he must look if he would behold the real preserver, defender, and transmitter of the ‘Word that endureth forever.’ – Henry Grey Graham.

[CatholicAndFanatical]

[quote]
The books selected at the Council of Carthage have been accepted as the New Testament ever since, by both Protestants and Catholics.
[/quote]

Just a quick question.

397AD is where im referencing in your post Isidore.

was you saying that in 397, the Protestants and Catholic agreed on this, or are you saying that in 397 the books were chosen and today Protestant and Catholics agree??

just curious. Thanks

[Isidore]

[quote name='CatholicAndFanatical' date='Apr 27 2004, 01:14 AM']
  Just a quick question.

    397AD is where im referencing in your post Isidore.

        was you saying that in 397, the Protestants and Catholic agreed on this, or are you saying that in 397 the books were chosen and today Protestant and Catholics agree??

        just curious. Thanks [/quote]
Great Question,


First, when I saw the topic I got a little excited. I didn't realize till later that this was a topic/question for Protestants. I couldn't take it off.

Anyway, during the Synod of Carthage in 397 A.D the Catholic Church ratified the official cannon of the Church. Since that time, both the Protestants and Catholics have accepted thebooks chosen as the New Testament as the true Gospel. Protestants use the same Gospel that the Catholic Church declared.

Edited April 27, 2004 by Isidore

[CatholicAndFanatical]

Ah ok, gotcha..well said. thank you for the response..

God Bless

[Justified Saint]

I have heard some say it fell from the sky.

[MC Just]

Many protestants, mormons, Jw's and other's actually believe it did fall out of the sky, it's crazy and they all hold a grudge against the Catholic Church, yet they wouldnt have a bible if our Monks didnt hand copy the scriptures over and over and over, and safeguard them.If we are the one's who put the bible together and actually had the bible before any other group than why is it we are the one's in error? That's messed up and inconsiderate.

[master_alterserver]

The bible was written by Catholics, inspired by God to support the Church.

So: the Church established the bible, why are the other churches based on the bible. For some 300 years (i don't know) the churxch was surviving on tradition.

[Brother Adam]

denominations from the "nomination" (the Church) have taken chopped up translations of the Holy Scriptures, declared "we can interpret it better than the Church" and the ensuing result is several thousand new creeds, getting more and more twisted each time a new one comes out.

I suggest the books "Triumph" and "From Texts to Translations".