Traditional Carmel With Latin And Strict Papal Enclosure

[faithcecelia]

When I was in Quidenham I was to go to a formation meeting in Scotland (sadly illness prevented me going in the end). When my novice mistress ran through who else would be there, there were 3 foreign sisters from one Carmel, who were having English lessons one afternoon a week. I remember saying to her that I simply couldn't imagine being in that situation - it was hard enough to find the words to explain what was happening within me in my first language let alone in a second! None of those 3 are still in that community - of course it could be co-incidence (and of course I am not in Q either!) - but in all honesty I could not advise anyone to enter a community that speaks a main language that you do not have good working knowledge of. Carmel is such a stark way of life, you confront parts of yourself that you didn't know existed, and I would be concerned that the essential internal work could end up being suppressed if the novice cannot talk about their deepest thoughts and experiences with their superiors. If someone really does feel called then personally I would try getting a job in the town of the community. Live the language for a year, get to know the community better then go from there.

[Studiumecclesiae]

Oh yea you need to have the least French. It's not easy to master a language. I could have found my vocation in the UK for speaking French or English doesn't make a too big difference for me. But it's true that it can make life hard, for example when you're given instruction for work, etc. And for recreations. You're always "behind", or "out" because you don't get it all. It's so ever important to be able to communicate, esp. in such an Order where silence is so important.

I am so glad I found my vocation in my home country. It's hard to adapt to another culture, and country.

[maximillion]

In the early 70's I entered an enclosed community in France and as I had never done French in school I could say 'oui' and 'non' when I got there.(I am English). The liturgy was all Latin, which was fine cos that's what I grew up with.
The NM spoke schoolgirl English......
It was amazing how quickly I learned French in a community that kept silence! I stayed 14 years.
Learning the language is another thing, like sorting our debts, that the Lord took care of.....if He wants you there, don't let the language 'problem' put you off!

[Studiumecclesiae]

[quote name='maximillion' timestamp='1312275552' post='2280220']
In the early 70's I entered an enclosed community in France and as I had never done French in school I could say 'oui' and 'non' when I got there.(I am English). The liturgy was all Latin, which was fine cos that's what I grew up with.
The NM spoke schoolgirl English......
It was amazing how quickly I learned French in a community that kept silence! I stayed 14 years.
Learning the language is another thing, like sorting our debts, that the Lord took care of.....if He wants you there, don't let the language 'problem' put you off!
[/quote]
Thank you for encouraging other discerners!! God helps us for sure when He wants us somewhere.
Now I just need to re-try learning Latin. I didn't grow up with it.

[ceciliatherese]

[quote name='faithcecelia' timestamp='1309595677' post='2262045']
What an interesting community (Allentown). They are O Carm yet follow very much an OCD horarium and most of their website is talking about OCD saints. Very interesting indeed. Thanks for posting this, I will read in in more detail when I can.
[/quote]

I volunteer there often to help one sister make altar breads. They're a great community. Definitely not for me, but the sisters are really sweet.

[Elkana]

Hello,

I'm new here, it's my first post. I haven't find a proper 'hello thread' to introduce myself. I'm a foreigner and I am interested in any information on traditional Carmels in Europe.

I have actually registered to kindly ask you for more information on the Carmels you mentioned in the first post.

Thank you very much.

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Elkana

[inperpetuity]

Hello, Elkana,

 

Welcome to this forum!  I don't know much about the Carmels in Europe except for Kirk Edge, but I know they do use an English version of the office that is supposed to be pretty good, and they apparently adhere very strictly to the constitutions and traditional customs.  I've only every heard and read good things about them.  There are people on here who know much more than I do about European monasteries, so hopefully they will come up with some more good info. for you.  God Bless!

Edited May 18, 2013 by inperpetuity

[Chiquitunga]

Hello,

I'm new here, it's my first post. I haven't find a proper 'hello thread' to introduce myself. I'm a foreigner and I am interested in any information on traditional Carmels in Europe.

I have actually registered to kindly ask you for more information on the Carmels you mentioned in the first post.

Thank you very much.

+

Elkana

 

Which countries/languages would you be most familiar with? (though God of can always call you anywhere of course) You can look up which Carmels are under the older Constitutions (1990) by viewing their addresses here, http://www.discalcedcarmel.com/index.php  The ones with *** in the address are 1990. The ones with two stars ** are 1990 except under the Father General of the Order.

 

I've seen one with one star and I am not sure what that means yet. It was Créteil in France, which I have heard is 1990.

 

Here is my old thread on the Constitutions - http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/58540-the-discalced-carmelite-nuns-1990-1991-constitutions/  as well as a Spanish blog about it - http://carmelitasdescalzas1990.blogspot.com/

 

The Carmel that Studiumecclesiae was talking about in the first post of this thread was Alençon, as I was emailing her about it. She doesn't visit this forum anymore, though I could contact her for more information. Here is a page on them - http://www.orne.catholique.fr/-MONASTERE-DU-CARMEL-D-ALENCON-.html  Also she had a blog post on them, though it's down, but here's an archive of it - http://web.archive.org/web/20111102072255/http://salveregina.over-blog.com/article-carmel-d-alen-on-ville-natale-de-sainte-therese-de-l-enfant-jesus-77457132.html

[Chiquitunga]

Which countries/languages would you be most familiar with? (though God of can always call you anywhere of course) You can look up which Carmels are under the older Constitutions (1990) by viewing their addresses here, http://www.discalcedcarmel.com/index.php  The ones with *** in the address are 1990. The ones with two stars ** are 1990 except under the Father General of the Order.

 

p.s. that link didn't go to the exact place I meant. On the left under "Nuns" click "Addresses" :like:

[Elkana]

Thank you so much for this quick response and so much information! I really appreciate :) your warm welcome!

 

I have been looking for information about traditional Carmels. I didn't know there were Carmels outside federations. I would like to know more about them and thanks for Alencon.

I've been attending the church for two years now. And for more than a year, the traditional Mass. There is a great difference... And when I started to think about Carmel, I thought of the traditional liturgy, too. There isn't any Carmel in my country with Latin liturgy.

Sometimes it seems I'm searching too much, you know. Considering going to France... Whimsical! But maybe it makes sense?

Btw I know English and French, and am saying to myself (boldly) that Italian can't be that difficult... Reading His will, is, though...

 

Thank you for your kindness!

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[inperpetuity]

 Italian was much easier to learn than French.

[inperpetuity]

I found this list of unassociated US Carmels:

 

www.baltimorecarmel.org/carmelite%20fam

 

I don't know how accurate this is, but that doesn't help you much Elkana.

[Elkana]

Yes that would be really far, but thank you anyway :)

 

Chiquitunga, could you tell me, is there a way to contact Studiumecclasiae about the Carmels ? I mean, if this is possible now. Thanks very much.

 

There is a 1990 Carmel in my hometown. The sisters are great though as you'd guess I haven't seen much of them... Except for the external sister (if that's the proper expression). The Mass is 'new'.

 

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[Indwelling Trinity]

Technically the term Carmel is only used for Carmelite nuns and I *think* OCarm sisters are sisters not nuns. So there may well be OCarm Carmelite Monasteries but not actual Carmels. And yes, I am nitpicking - I have nearly a bottle of pink wine in my tummy tonight! :cheers2:

 

Smiles Gently... The O.Carms are the original Carmelites the O.C.D.'s are one of many reforms over the years that happened to catch on with OHM St Teresa of Avila. Both Branches of Our holy Order have Nuns and branches of sisters who are semi contemplative. Carmel's roots run deep. :-)

[Chiquitunga]

Yes that would be really far, but thank you anyway :)

 

Chiquitunga, could you tell me, is there a way to contact Studiumecclasiae about the Carmels ? I mean, if this is possible now. Thanks very much.

 

There is a 1990 Carmel in my hometown. The sisters are great though as you'd guess I haven't seen much of them... Except for the external sister (if that's the proper expression). The Mass is 'new'.

 

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I just emailed her to see. :) I'll send you a PM if I hear anything.  That is so rare and amazing you have a 1990 Carmel in your hometown. Wow!!

 

Sometimes it seems I'm searching too much, you know. Considering going to France... Whimsical! But maybe it makes sense?

Btw I know English and French, and am saying to myself (boldly) that Italian can't be that difficult... Reading His will, is, though...

 

Thank you for your kindness!

+

 

 

 

The Nebraska Carmel in the US that has the Traditional Latin Mass daily has two nuns who entered from Australia, as far as I have heard. But yes, I agree... reading His will is the difficult part! prayers for you! :pray:

 

About Alençon again, Studiumecclasiae also mentioned once in another thread that they actually have the Traditional Latin Mass 3 to 4 times a week, at least at the time she posted it. She has visited there. If you can afford it, I think it would be very much worth a visit, if you're called there or not, especially since it's the birthplace of St. Therese and there's a shrine a short walk from the Carmel where she was born - http://www.famillemartin-therese-alencon.com Then you could go visit Lisieux too! :like:

 

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze5Bap6Nhac