Gay Bullying Is "peer Pressure"

[4588686]

[quote name='southern california guy' timestamp='1309493183' post='2261415']
Whether you call the homosexuals "disordered" or not, if you were to get all of the 'true' homosexuals (Have NO heterosexual relationships) together and have them form their own country -- they wouldn't last very long.... They would all die out.

When you think about it the homosexuals are DEPENDENT on the heterosexuals. They exist because their parents were heterosexuals. The goods the services, the world that they live in exists -- and progressed to where it is -- because of heterosexual relationships. And heterosexual marriage is the backbone of our society. The breakdown of the marriage, the breakdown of the sexual norms results in the breakdown of a stable society.

Are they "disordered"? Yes, in societal terms they are "disordered". In religious terms they are "disordered" Right now we don't have any problem with under-population but plagues, famines, and climate change (Not the make believe stuff supposedly caused by man but the real changes in our climate that have resulted in extinctions of entire species) could change that situation.

Monogamous heterosexual relationships create stability -- they create a society.
[/quote]


So long as your willing to accept that it leads to the conclusion that your stubborn singleness is a disordered way of living.

Edited July 2, 2011 by Hasan

[Jaime]

[quote name='southern california guy' timestamp='1309493183' post='2261415']


Are they "disordered"? Yes, in societal terms they are "disordered". In religious terms they are "disordered" Right now we don't have any problem with under-population but plagues, famines, and climate change (Not the make believe stuff supposedly caused by man but the real changes in our climate that have resulted in extinctions of entire species) could change that situation.

[/quote]

nope

[quote]Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approve[/quote]

The acts are disordered. People are not. Keep that straight please (pardon the pun)

[southern california guy]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1309629800' post='2262158']
So long as your willing to accept that it leads to the conclusion that your stubborn singleness is a disordered way of living.
[/quote]

That's no joke!

[southern california guy]

Getting back to the original subject of this thread the argument that gay bullying is healthy "peer pressure" is obnoxious. I heard these sorts of arguments from the Mormons in Utah and that was part of the reason I decided to leave. They would try and figure out how to defend anything that their kids did. Maybe that's not unusual for any parents but it seems to be a bigger problem in a place like Utah where the Mormons really want to dominate and run the show. There's not much of a "live and let live" attitude. It's more of a "We kick butt!" And it's easy to overlook until it becomes personal.

This sort of thing makes the Tea Party look bad. It makes you wonder if Richard Swier had somebody in mind when he made the statement. Was he trying to defend the actions of his kids -- or kids of his friends? It's this sort of thing that can make "conservatives" hard to live by. Overall I've found that "liberals" make better neighbors -- even though I don't agree with many of their politics.

Does the Tea Party have clear objectives? And do they have a clear plan to achieve those objectives? If not, why not? It's sad to see it deteriorating into this sort of thing.

[southern california guy]

[quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff) (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1309630669' post='2262163']
nope



The acts are disordered. People are not. Keep that straight please (pardon the pun)
[/quote]


I'm sorry I don't understand. Are you saying that a homosexual preference, or "orientation", is not a personal disorder?

Edited July 3, 2011 by southern california guy

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='southern california guy' timestamp='1309706208' post='2262618']
I'm sorry I don't understand. Are you saying that a homosexual preference, or "orientation", is not a personal disorder?
[/quote]
The natural order for human beings is to be directed to the opposite sex - that is the "natural" order. Same sex attraction is "[b]dis[/b]ordered" because it is targeted to itself and not the opposite sex. The Church refers to it as an "objective" disorder.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Lumiere' timestamp='1309628116' post='2262154']
I posted this on another thread, but it is approriate here, too.

The position of the Roman Catholic Church that homosexuality is "disordered" is something that we could debate for quite some time. The greater danger is that people use that position to hate and discriminate against homosexuals outside of the Church. I would like all you "Church Militants" and "Church Scholars" take note, this is from [url="http://www.cardinalseansblog.org/2011/06/17/"]Cardinal O'Malley's Blog[/url]:

"[b]As Catholics, we must oppose the hatred and rejection of homosexual persons that exists in our society. We do not want them to be the object of discrimination or violence.[/b] We believe, however, that God’s law is written in our hearts and that to lead a fully human life we need to embrace His commandments. This is not always easy, we all struggle and sometimes we fail; but a loving and forgiving God is always there to lift us up and help us start over again." (emphasis mine)

He continues:

"The Church’s position is not based on an animus against people with a homosexual orientation. Each and every member of the Church is called to holiness regardless of their sexual orientation. [b]The Church has often warned against defining people by their sexual orientation in a way that diminishes their humanity.[/b] Each person is a mystery, an irreplaceable treasure, precious in God’s eye. We are God’s creatures and in baptism we are His sons and daughters, brothers and sisters to one another.

The extreme individualism of our age is undermining the common good and fractionalizing the community. The Church wishes to call people to unity based on mutual respect and a commitment to the common good. We do not want Catholics who have a homosexual orientation to feel unwelcomed in the Catholic Church. We remind them that they are bound to us by their baptism and are called to live a life of holiness. Many homosexual persons in our Church lead holy lives and make an outstanding contribution to the life of the Church by their service, generosity and the sharing of their spiritual gifts.

[b]We must strive to eradicate prejudices against people with a homosexual orientation.[/b] At the same time the Church must minister to all people by challenging them to obey God’s commands, the roadmap for a meaningful human life that allows us to draw near to God and to one another.

In the Gospel when the self-righteous Pharisees bring the adulteress to be stoned, Jesus says let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Then to make sure they got the point Jesus wrote their sins on the ground. The stones fell from their hands and they fled. Jesus said: 'Neither do I condemn you', but He added, 'Go and sin no more.'" (emphasis mine)
[/quote]
So do you have a point in re-posting the church teachings we already know?

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1309629800' post='2262158']
So long as your willing to accept that it leads to the conclusion that your stubborn singleness is a disordered way of living.
[/quote]

From his prior posts, I wouldn't call his singleness "stubborn". He has been seeking a wife, it's just that most of the Catholic women he has met are CINOS when it comes to Church teaching on sexual morality (if I read his posts correctly). And that's the difference here: he is seeking to do things God's way, as opposed to people who actively live the homosexual lifestyle.

[Didacus]

I see bullying on both sides to be honest. You can pressure someone one way or another without necessarily disrespecting them. When you get insulting, menacing, hurtful, etc... then you have bullying and it can be done in favour of anything.

[Jaime]

[quote name='southern california guy' timestamp='1309706208' post='2262618']
I'm sorry I don't understand. Are you saying that a homosexual preference, or "orientation", is not a personal disorder?
[/quote]

In your post you were stating that homosexual people were disordered. People are not disordered. desires are disordered.

[infinitelord1]

Picking on somebody for having Same Sex Attraction only makes them feel different from their Same Sex Peers. This attacks their identity even more causing them to feel Same Sex Attraction on a deeper level. The counter to that is to be friendly and loving towards them so that they can feel comfortable enough to develop a stronger sense of their God given sexual identity. They develop a stronger sense of their Natural Identity by surrounding themselves with accepting Same Sex Peers.

[southern california guy]

Often times with "gay bullying" the kids who are being bullied and called "gay" (homosexuals) aren't even homosexuals. It's not peer pressure, it's just plain bullying.

Several of the guys I knew in school became homosexuals, but as kids and all the way through school nobody knew that these guys were going to become homosexuals. So there was no bullying. These were guys who were molested by the basketball coach when they were in elementary school. He coached a basketball camp called "Little Dribblers". He became the High School basketball coach, and at the end of my senior year several of the guys -- who had been molested by him when they were younger -- turned him in. He went to jail for it.

Since some people might argue that I'm making this up, and since this is the internet, I will give a link to a story by the "Seattle Times" to back it up. I fully believe that these guys "became" homosexuals because of the molestation rather than having been "born that way".

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19950202&slug=2102788

The part about Al Williams is a little over half way down. The paragraph reads:

[color="#0000FF"]Since negotiating a $2.23 million settlement in 1990 of a lawsuit filed by the families of five children allegedly abused by a different coach in the district, the Lake Washington School District began administering a "Teachers and Touching" class to new employees. The lawsuit followed the 1988 molestation conviction of Al Williams, former Redmond High School boys basketball coach. Williams was sentenced to five years in prison after pleading guilty to two counts of indecent liberties and one count of statuatory third-degree rape involving sex acts with two of his players.[/color]

Edited July 4, 2011 by southern california guy

[SoylentGreene]

What happened to calling it a sin?

[kujo]

[quote name='southern california guy' timestamp='1309751599' post='2262870']
Often times with "gay bullying" the kids who are being bullied and called "gay" (homosexuals) aren't even homosexuals. It's not peer pressure, it's just plain bullying.

Several of the guys I knew in school became homosexuals, but as kids and all the way through school nobody knew that these guys were going to become homosexuals. So there was no bullying. These were guys who were molested by the basketball coach when they were in elementary school. He coached a basketball camp called "Little Dribblers". He became the High School basketball coach, and at the end of my senior year several of the guys -- who had been molested by him when they were younger -- turned him in. He went to jail for it.

Since some people might argue that I'm making this up, and since this is the internet, I will give a link to a story by the "Seattle Times" to back it up. I fully believe that these guys "became" homosexuals because of the molestation rather than having been "born that way".

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19950202&slug=2102788

The part about Al Williams is a little over half way down. The paragraph reads:

[color="#0000FF"]Since negotiating a $2.23 million settlement in 1990 of a lawsuit filed by the families of five children allegedly abused by a different coach in the district, the Lake Washington School District began administering a "Teachers and Touching" class to new employees. The lawsuit followed the 1988 molestation conviction of Al Williams, former Redmond High School boys basketball coach. Williams was sentenced to five years in prison after pleading guilty to two counts of indecent liberties and one count of statuatory third-degree rape involving sex acts with two of his players.[/color]
[/quote]

So, you're point is....?

I mean, I could be wrong, but you started off your post with the phrase "often times," and then proceeded to describe a single anecdote. So, either you are universalizing your personal experience or you're just walking into a gigantic logical fallacy. Either way, explain what the heck the point of this post was.

Edited July 4, 2011 by kujo

[southern california guy]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1309805668' post='2263089']
So, you're point is....?

I mean, I could be wrong, but you started off your post with the phrase "often times," and then proceeded to describe a single anecdote. So, either you are universalizing your personal experience or you're just walking into a gigantic logical fallacy. Either way, explain what the heck the point of this post was.
[/quote]

That "gay bullying" by kids isn't about peer pressure -- it's about bullying only. At that age you don't know who's going to end up as a homosexual as an adult.