My First Tridentine Mass

[faithcecelia]

For practical reasons as much as anything else I went to the Tridentine Mass this morning - I won't be able to get to the English Mass this evening as Corin (the boy I nanny) will be in bed and his mother is away, and St Cecilia's have Mass later on feasts meaning I am pushing it to get back to pick Corin up from nursery.

My first problem was what to wear? Usually I go to weekday Mass in my workclothes as I just manage to fit it in between things I am doing, so I admit thats often jeans or leggings. I thought that the older congregation, who are not used to seeing me on weekdays (as I go to St C's) might be offended, and as it is hot I didn't want to have to put a cardi over what I was wearing and I had washed my dresses, so I stood and dried a dress with a hairdryer . and put it on still slightly damp. When I actually got there I was probably the most neatly dressed and one of only 2 women with heads covered, which doesn't bother me at all but did suprise me.


Mass itself was wonderful because it was Mass, and okay for being Tridentine - I have no particular feelings one way or the other yet, but it was the first so that may come. The priest preached the best I have ever heard him, which was nice. He spoke of how the word used for Peter meaning Rock actually works the way 'rocky' does in English, as in both solid (as we tend to think of when refering to Christ building His hurch on the rock) but also 'rocky' as in not so amazing and potentially getting it wrong! I had first read about that some years ago and been very struck by it, it certainly makes Peter as he is portrayed in the Gospels more fitting to his name! He also pointed out that disagreements within the Church are as old as the Church itself, with Peter and Paul frequesntly having differing opinions. So he didn't really say anything i hadn't heard before, but he did say it well.

I struggled with following the Mass, even with a translation (plus basic knowledge of Latin) simply due to the speed with which it was said. To be honest, I have the same problem with English Mass in that way, and it never quite sits right for me when Mass is whizzed through in the shortest possible time, as though it is a race. I very soon gave up trying to follow.

It was nice to have quiet for communion. Much as I love music, I don't like music/singing during communion, I prefer silence then (well, near silence as there is always 'people noise'). When it was time for me to go and kneel (they used the front pews, as is the option in NO Masses, interestingly tho they do still have te altar rail just dont seem to use it) I was first in so at the far end, and the old lady who was last in at the other end tripped and landed with quite a bump, bless her. The man next to her helped her, and as the priest came across towards me he stopped and asked her if she was okay. I don't know if that was 'officially' right or wrong, but I found it kind.

Whilst praying after recieving my phone vibrated in my bag, sadly I have to keep it on due to work and I was able to glance and see that yes, it was the school but I just put it to answerphone knowing Mass was almost over. So I slipped out as soon as I could, sadly missing the veneration of the relics of St Peter and St Paul, and checked the message.

I was not impressed to hear that I needed to go and collect Corin early, not because he was ill but because of terrible behaviour. He is only 4 and has quite major learning difficulties, but can fly form being adorable to horrible in 2 seconds flat. So within 10mins of recieving Christ in the Eucharist, I was half dragging a screaming, kicking, dribbling 4yr old home. Its put me on a bit of a downer to be honest

[Cam42]

[quote name='faithcecelia' timestamp='1309345928' post='2260167']
For practical reasons as much as anything else I went to the Tridentine Mass this morning - I won't be able to get to the English Mass this evening as Corin (the boy I nanny) will be in bed and his mother is away, and St Cecilia's have Mass later on feasts meaning I am pushing it to get back to pick Corin up from nursery.

My first problem was what to wear? Usually I go to weekday Mass in my workclothes as I just manage to fit it in between things I am doing, so I admit thats often jeans or leggings. I thought that the older congregation, who are not used to seeing me on weekdays (as I go to St C's) might be offended, and as it is hot I didn't want to have to put a cardi over what I was wearing and I had washed my dresses, so I stood and dried a dress with a hairdryer . and put it on still slightly damp. When I actually got there I was probably the most neatly dressed and one of only 2 women with heads covered, which doesn't bother me at all but did suprise me.


Mass itself was wonderful because it was Mass, and okay for being Tridentine - I have no particular feelings one way or the other yet, but it was the first so that may come. The priest preached the best I have ever heard him, which was nice. He spoke of how the word used for Peter meaning Rock actually works the way 'rocky' does in English, as in both solid (as we tend to think of when refering to Christ building His hurch on the rock) but also 'rocky' as in not so amazing and potentially getting it wrong! I had first read about that some years ago and been very struck by it, it certainly makes Peter as he is portrayed in the Gospels more fitting to his name! He also pointed out that disagreements within the Church are as old as the Church itself, with Peter and Paul frequesntly having differing opinions. So he didn't really say anything i hadn't heard before, but he did say it well.

I struggled with following the Mass, even with a translation (plus basic knowledge of Latin) simply due to the speed with which it was said. To be honest, I have the same problem with English Mass in that way, and it never quite sits right for me when Mass is whizzed through in the shortest possible time, as though it is a race. I very soon gave up trying to follow.

It was nice to have quiet for communion. Much as I love music, I don't like music/singing during communion, I prefer silence then (well, near silence as there is always 'people noise'). When it was time for me to go and kneel (they used the front pews, as is the option in NO Masses, interestingly tho they do still have te altar rail just dont seem to use it) I was first in so at the far end, and the old lady who was last in at the other end tripped and landed with quite a bump, bless her. The man next to her helped her, and as the priest came across towards me he stopped and asked her if she was okay. I don't know if that was 'officially' right or wrong, but I found it kind.

Whilst praying after recieving my phone vibrated in my bag, sadly I have to keep it on due to work and I was able to glance and see that yes, it was the school but I just put it to answerphone knowing Mass was almost over. So I slipped out as soon as I could, sadly missing the veneration of the relics of St Peter and St Paul, and checked the message.

I was not impressed to hear that I needed to go and collect Corin early, not because he was ill but because of terrible behaviour. He is only 4 and has quite major learning difficulties, but can fly form being adorable to horrible in 2 seconds flat. So within 10mins of recieving Christ in the Eucharist, I was half dragging a screaming, kicking, dribbling 4yr old home. Its put me on a bit of a downer to be honest
[/quote]


A couple of things to remember about about the Traditional Latin Mass and then a bit of advice...from someone who is exclusive....

1. Congrats on taking the first step into a bigger world.

2. When people approach me about assisting at the Traditional Latin Mass, I say this: "Give it three weeks uninterrupted. Engage the Mass, engage the culture, engage the spirituality, with no influence from the Novus Ordo. If at that time you don't fully embrace the Traditional Latin Mass, or have a better understanding of what is going on around you, then move back. This isn't an instruction, this is an expression of a legitimate spirituality...find out from the inside out. Let it wash over you."

3. Don't worry about keeping up. The Mass moves at it's own pace. You worship at your own pace. When you try to keep tabs on the Mass, especially in the beginning, you won't find much in the Mass, because you're focused too much on the participatio activa and not enough on the participatio actuosa. Keeping up will come with time, but that comes because you've learned to sync your worship to the action of the Mass. They are linked, but they are not the same, even in the Novus Ordo.

Think of it this way, one goes to Mass to worship God the Father. That action is completed in the Gift of the Son. And it is made manifest through the Holy Spirit. When one first comes into church, he should place his offerings (spiritual) at the foot of the altar. He then goes to his place and prepares for Holy Mass. When the priest starts the Mass, he gathers all of the offerings and places them on the altar alongside the Sacred Species. As he is offering these oblations the faithful then worship, each at his own pace, to God the Father. Like I said, as time passes and as one gets more comfortable with the sacrifice of the Holy Mass, his prayer will sync up with that action, until then, one shouldn't strive to catch up or to sync up, because that puts undue strain on a very natural action...It is the celebrant's job to minister to us, so we should let him; not try to minister to ourselves or to each other.

So, when you go back the next time, don't worry so much about knowing where the priest is, it will make the experience that much better. I also suggest that people not use a missal or "the little red book" for several weeks, so as to be able to engage participatio actuosa....WHAT the priest is doing is not nearly as important as to WHY the priest is doing what he's doing. The same applies to the Novus Ordo.

Finally, I would offer this bit of advice...embrace the silence of a low Mass. I know that you said you noticed it. Embrace it and use it. One of the main reasons that the Mass is quiet is so that one can focus his worship as he sees fit. That will change daily, btw. Your offerings are yours. That is what you meditate upon. The big problem with the "new mentality" of Mass is that we have lost this idea of sacred silence. We've been conditioned to think that unless we're doing or saying or singing or acting out something at Mass, we're not worshiping. That is a Protestant ideal. Catholics have always valued silence and solitude. Monks and nuns have taken what is rightly Catholic with regard to her worship and moved it to the extreme. That is what they do, it is an example...not the norm...but we should apply the example as best we can.

Get it yet? The mentality is a little different. That is why I say give it three weeks, uninterrupted. If you do, I think that you'll see a whole new world with regard to the Church. It isn't a different Church, mind you, but it is a different mentality within the Church....and if you don't like it, you can always go back.

[Aragonn]

I really encourage you to take notice of Cam's first point. When I first attended the Old Mass I had no idea what was going on and using a missal was near impossible with all the flipping of pages. However, as you become more familiar with the rite, you begin to learn what prayer the priest is up to by the position of his hands or where he is standing. You pick up on the Latin to the point where you no longer even have to read the ordinary of the Mass (the parts that never change) because they're imprinted on your mind. Don't be surprised that only two women were wearing mantillas. The diocesan Mass I usually attend is about 50/50 split, and the priests don't enforce a dress code. The SSPX priory in my city however requires women to wear a veil (unless they're new and don't know any better). I commend you on wearing the veil though, there's a whole lot of theology behind the veiling of women (plus girls look really cute in a white mantilla, imo ).

Try to attend a bit more and the whole Mass becomes second nature. In fact I was recently at the first Novus Ordo I've been to in months and I found myself genuflecting during the creed, bowing during the [i]gloria patri[/i], and reciting the "Lord, I am not worthy..." thrice. It's really very beautiful.

PS. Sorry to hear about your hard day of baby sitting. Kids can go from cute to nightmares so quickly

[faithcecelia]

Thanks for your reply.

Going exclusively Tridentine isn't an option, even for just a few weeks, as my parish is the only one on the island that has them at all, and there is only one Sunday mass a month (which was actually cancelled at very short notice last time). There isn't even a weekly Tridentine at Portsmouth so hopping on the boat wouldn't help. However I think i will probably go to any that are available to me (at a time I can make it, etc) rather than walking past the parish to get to St Cecilia's. Unfortunately weekday Masses at the parish, whichever Form, tend to be at 8:30am or noon, neither of which I can make due to taking and collecting Corin.

I had already decided not to use the book next time (they were home made blue ones here, lol!) and to just 'be' instead. I never use a Missal in an NO Mass, haven't for years, I take it and read through the readings in the quiet church beforehand but don't follow during. Although the service sheet had seemed to suggest that this mornings readings would be Latin, they were actually in English, and I put the sheet down once that was apparant. Mostly I sat/stood/knelt with my eyes shut, as I do in any Mass.

This might sound strange, but when I was in Carmel I would sometimes find that I 'lost' time during prayertime, I just had no awareness or memory of it. At first I worried I was falling asleep, and took consolation from knowing Therese often would, but the more often it happened/happens the less I think its sleep, I think it is more the way God is helping me to focus on and listen to Him, helping me be less aware of what is going on around me (like people coughing, street noise, etc) and more aware of Him. That happened today after Communion, only disturbed by my phone vibrating at my knees and I know that would have been less likely had there been a hymn, even though I tend not to sing the Communion hymn anyway.


I was quite upset when I wrote my first post. I was so disappointed in Corin, and upset that I had had to rush straight from the calm stillness of Mass to collect a 4yr old who was being, quite frankly, horrible. I have calmed down now, and am remembering more of what the priest said and that 'lost' time I have just written about, and I'm feeling far more positive.

[faithcecelia]

[quote name='Aragonn' timestamp='1309349636' post='2260186']
I really encourage you to take notice of Cam's first point. When I first attended the Old Mass I had no idea what was going on and using a missal was near impossible with all the flipping of pages. However, as you become more familiar with the rite, you begin to learn what prayer the priest is up to by the position of his hands or where he is standing. You pick up on the Latin to the point where you no longer even have to read the ordinary of the Mass (the parts that never change) because they're imprinted on your mind. Don't be surprised that only two women were wearing mantillas. The diocesan Mass I usually attend is about 50/50 split, and the priests don't enforce a dress code. The SSPX priory in my city however requires women to wear a veil (unless they're new and don't know any better). I commend you on wearing the veil though, there's a whole lot of theology behind the veiling of women (plus girls look really cute in a white mantilla, imo ).

Try to attend a bit more and the whole Mass becomes second nature. In fact I was recently at the first Novus Ordo I've been to in months and I found myself genuflecting during the creed, bowing during the [i]gloria patri[/i], and reciting the "Lord, I am not worthy..." thrice. It's really very beautiful.

PS. Sorry to hear about your hard day of baby sitting. Kids can go from cute to nightmares so quickly
[/quote]


I should point out that I do not wear a mantilla, rather I wear a scarf to cover my hair, and I wear this pretty much all the time - for me, where I am in my life now, its the right thing. I have never managed to get used to being bare-headed since having to take off my veil


I was quite struck by the 'Lord, I am not worthy' being said 3 times. Its one of the parts of Mass that means the most to me anyway, and I found that very beautiful. i can half follow the Latin as I studied it at school (not Church Latin of course) and St Cecilia's Abbey where I go most weekdays have NO Mass in Latin (hence I specifically say Tridentine rather than just Latin Mass).


Its very rare that Corin's behaviour really gets me down, I have looked after him for 18mths now and little rocks me, but I am genuinely worried for him if he can't get control of his temper soon.

[organwerke]

I too went to my first Tridentine Mass about one month ago.
I appreciated it, even if there were two things I was not able to appreciate or understand (or both of them):
-the first one is that the Mass was said in my city's cathedral, and in a special occasion: this implied that the church is very big and it was also very crowded and unfortunately this idea of silence was not very present on the contrary there was constantly some confusion,
-the second one is that I was not used not to hear the priest's voice during the consecration and the Eucaristic prayer...and, as I said, since the church was so big and the priest so far from me, I lived the moment as if the Mass had been celebrated in the church and I was outside in the street...

[faithcecelia]

[quote name='organwerke' timestamp='1309351125' post='2260201']
I too went to my first Tridentine Mass about one month ago.
I appreciated it, even if there were two things I was not able to appreciate or understand (or both of them):
-the first one is that the Mass was said in my city's cathedral, and in a special occasion: this implied that the church is very big and it was also very crowded and unfortunately this idea of silence was not very present on the contrary there was constantly some confusion,
-the second one is that I was not used not to hear the priest's voice during the consecration and the Eucaristic prayer...and, as I said, since the church was so big and the priest so far from me, I lived the moment as if the Mass had been celebrated in the church and I was outside in the street...
[/quote]


I often think busy Masses are the hardest to be at. I was very involved in lots of things at my old parish and I remember a few times when I conciously chose to go to a 2nd Mass that day, just so I could have quiet and focus on the Mass not what I needed to be doing, or watching out for what others needed to be doing etc!

My church here is directly on the High Street. Its great in that it is open from about 8am to 8pm most days, providing someone is about to pop in regularly to check all is okay. It does mean, however that on baking hot days like today, when the door is open, its quite noisy. Strangely that doesn't bother me as much as it seems to bother others, and even when this morning one couple were in and out the whole way through Mass that bothered me less than the half dozen heads that turned and stared every time they did!

[FutureSister2009]

I don't know if I've ever been to a Tridentine Mass, I've been to our Traditional Latin Mass at my Church but I don't know if it was Tridentine. How can you tell?

[Aragonn]

[quote name='FutureSister2009' timestamp='1309370812' post='2260328']
I don't know if I've ever been to a Tridentine Mass, I've been to our Traditional Latin Mass at my Church but I don't know if it was Tridentine. How can you tell?
[/quote]

Did they have the prayers of the faithful? If so it was a Novus Ordo in Latin. Also, was the prologue to the gospel of St John read immediately after Mass? If so it was a Tridentine Mass.

[Cam42]

[quote name='FutureSister2009' timestamp='1309370812' post='2260328']
I don't know if I've ever been to a Tridentine Mass, I've been to our Traditional Latin Mass at my Church but I don't know if it was Tridentine. How can you tell?
[/quote]

Was it using the books of 1962? Were there cards on the altar? There would be three of them...

[faithcecelia]

[quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1309371521' post='2260337']
Was it using the books of 1962? Were there cards on the altar? There would be three of them...
[/quote]


Out of interest, what are the cards, please? There were a few 'things' that I did not recognise

[fides' Jack]

As one who is intimately familiar with the Extraordinary Form, I would agree with Cam42 - I think it makes sense to not try to follow the priest too much.

Still though, I know for others doing that will be difficult. I think participatio actuoso requires a little more knowledge of what is going on than simply what the Mass is. I know if left completely alone many people would be distracted by the standing and sitting and kneeling, and generally by all the differences. At some point the priest would start the homily and those people would just think - oh, it's time for the sermon, and then later, oh, it's time for Communion. If they were particularly attentive they could probably pick out the consecration.

Each experience like this would negatively impact all future experiences of the same.

Instead, for entirely new people, I think I would suggest studying it at least a little beforehand. Know the Order of the Mass, so that even if you don't understand the words, you have some general idea of what is going on, and can more fully participate [i]actually.[/i]

[Cam42]

[quote name='fides' Jack' timestamp='1309372621' post='2260346']
As one who is intimately familiar with the Extraordinary Form, I would agree with Cam42 - I think it makes sense to not try to follow the priest too much.

Still though, I know for others doing that will be difficult. I think participatio actuoso requires a little more knowledge of what is going on than simply what the Mass is. I know if left completely alone many people would be distracted by the standing and sitting and kneeling, and generally by all the differences. At some point the priest would start the homily and those people would just think - oh, it's time for the sermon, and then later, oh, it's time for Communion. If they were particularly attentive they could probably pick out the consecration.

Each experience like this would negatively impact all future experiences of the same.

Instead, for entirely new people, I think I would suggest studying it at least a little beforehand. Know the Order of the Mass, so that even if you don't understand the words, you have some general idea of what is going on, and can more fully participate [i]actually.[/i]
[/quote]

Really, you're making it too difficult. the basic order of the Mass hasn't changed, between the Novus Ordo and the Traditional Latin Mass. The main difference is that the Traditional Latin Mass is more thorough in her treatment of the propers and ordinaries of the Mass; whereas the Novus Ordo is simplified. But any Catholic will be able to pick up on what is going on if they lift their eyes...they will know when the prayers at the foot end, they will know when the kyrie starts, the gloria, and the readings. Once the Mass of the catechumens is complete and we arrive at the Mass of the faithful, it gets even easier because of the bells. There is a bell to start the offertory, there is a bell for the sanctus, the hanc, depending on where you are you have a candle for the consecration to go with the bells...and bells at the domine....

Following, even for the first timer isn't a problem, unless they stick their heads in a book and try to go word for word....it just doesn't work...remember the priest has been saying this Mass for years, so his comfort level with it is infinitely more than the neophyte.

I agree that studying before hand is a good idea, but the [i]participatio actuosa[/i] isn't only in knowing the Mass, it is also in worshiping at Mass. That is the key to [i]participatio actuosa[/i].

[dUSt]

[quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1309385795' post='2260460']
That is the key to [i]participatio actuosa[/i].
[/quote]
Gesundheit!

[Cam42]

[quote name='faithcecelia' timestamp='1309372234' post='2260344']
Out of interest, what are the cards, please? There were a few 'things' that I did not recognise
[/quote]


There are three cards on the altar which help the priest to keep his place during the Mass.


[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v672/camilam42/Church/IMG_4674.jpg[/IMG]


[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v672/camilam42/Church/IMG_4694.jpg[/img]

Edited June 30, 2011 by Cam42