cmotherofpirl Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 [quote name='aggiornamento' timestamp='1309318929' post='2260077'] sad. glad they found another church to do it. [/quote] I can't be glad or sad because I don't know the circumstances. I highly doubt he was refused because he simply had SSA, there has to be more to the story than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggiornamento Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1309321013' post='2260090'] I can't be glad or sad because I don't know the circumstances. I highly doubt he was refused because he simply had SSA, there has to be more to the story than that. [/quote] agreed. but I do not think the Church should be denying funerals to Baptized Catholics, regardless of their sins, public or private. we are all in need of God's mercy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cappie Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Speaks for itself: CHURCH FUNERALS (Cann. 1176 - 1185) Can. 1176 §1 Christ's faithful who have died are to be given a Church funeral according to the norms of law. §2 Church funerals are to be celebrated according to the norms of the liturgical books. In these funeral rites the Church prays for the spiritual support of the dead, it honours their bodies, and at the same time it brings to the living the comfort of hope. §3 The Church earnestly recommends that the pious custom of burial be retained; but it does not forbid cremation, unless this is chosen for reasons which are contrary to christian teaching. CHAPTER II : THOSE TO WHOM CHURCH FUNERALS ARE TO BE ALLOWED OR DENIED Can. 1183 §1 As far as funeral rites are concerned, catechumens are to be reckoned among Christ's faithful. §2 Children whose parents had intended to have them baptised but who died before baptism, may be allowed Church funeral rites by the local Ordinary. §3 Provided their own minister is not available, baptised persons belonging to a non-catholic Church or ecclesial community may, in accordance with the prudent judgement of the local Ordinary, be allowed Church funeral rites, unless it is established that they did not wish this. Can. 1184 §1 Church funeral rites are to be denied to the following, unless they gave some signs of repentance before death: 1° notorious apostates, heretics and schismatics; 2° those who for anti-christian motives chose that their bodies be cremated; 3° [i]other manifest sinners to whom a Church funeral could not be granted without public scandal to the faithful. [/i] §2 If any doubt occurs, the local Ordinary is to be consulted and his judgement followed. Can. 1185 Any form of funeral Mass is also to be denied to a person who has been excluded from a Church funeral. We should also remember a very important canon: Can. 220 No one may unlawfully harm the good reputation which a person enjoys, or violate the right of every person to protect his or her privacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 [quote name='cappie' timestamp='1309322784' post='2260103'] Speaks for itself: CHURCH FUNERALS (Cann. 1176 - 1185) Can. 1176 §1 Christ's faithful who have died are to be given a Church funeral according to the norms of law. §2 Church funerals are to be celebrated according to the norms of the liturgical books. In these funeral rites the Church prays for the spiritual support of the dead, it honours their bodies, and at the same time it brings to the living the comfort of hope. §3 The Church earnestly recommends that the pious custom of burial be retained; but it does not forbid cremation, unless this is chosen for reasons which are contrary to christian teaching. CHAPTER II : THOSE TO WHOM CHURCH FUNERALS ARE TO BE ALLOWED OR DENIED Can. 1183 §1 As far as funeral rites are concerned, catechumens are to be reckoned among Christ's faithful. §2 Children whose parents had intended to have them baptised but who died before baptism, may be allowed Church funeral rites by the local Ordinary. §3 Provided their own minister is not available, baptised persons belonging to a non-catholic Church or ecclesial community may, in accordance with the prudent judgement of the local Ordinary, be allowed Church funeral rites, unless it is established that they did not wish this. Can. 1184 §1 Church funeral rites are to be denied to the following, unless they gave some signs of repentance before death: 1° notorious apostates, heretics and schismatics; 2° those who for anti-christian motives chose that their bodies be cremated; 3° [i]other manifest sinners to whom a Church funeral could not be granted without public scandal to the faithful. [/i] §2 If any doubt occurs, the local Ordinary is to be consulted and his judgement followed. Can. 1185 Any form of funeral Mass is also to be denied to a person who has been excluded from a Church funeral. We should also remember a very important canon: Can. 220 No one may unlawfully harm the good reputation which a person enjoys, or violate the right of every person to protect his or her privacy. [/quote] Thanks, Father (Cappie)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggiornamento Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 [quote name='cappie' timestamp='1309322784' post='2260103'] Speaks for itself: CHURCH FUNERALS (Cann. 1176 - 1185) Can. 1176 §1 Christ's faithful who have died are to be given a Church funeral according to the norms of law. §2 Church funerals are to be celebrated according to the norms of the liturgical books. In these funeral rites the Church prays for the spiritual support of the dead, it honours their bodies, and at the same time it brings to the living the comfort of hope. §3 The Church earnestly recommends that the pious custom of burial be retained; but it does not forbid cremation, unless this is chosen for reasons which are contrary to christian teaching. CHAPTER II : THOSE TO WHOM CHURCH FUNERALS ARE TO BE ALLOWED OR DENIED Can. 1183 §1 As far as funeral rites are concerned, catechumens are to be reckoned among Christ's faithful. §2 Children whose parents had intended to have them baptised but who died before baptism, may be allowed Church funeral rites by the local Ordinary. §3 Provided their own minister is not available, baptised persons belonging to a non-catholic Church or ecclesial community may, in accordance with the prudent judgement of the local Ordinary, be allowed Church funeral rites, unless it is established that they did not wish this. Can. 1184 §1 Church funeral rites are to be denied to the following, unless they gave some signs of repentance before death: 1° notorious apostates, heretics and schismatics; 2° those who for anti-christian motives chose that their bodies be cremated; 3° [i]other manifest sinners to whom a Church funeral could not be granted without public scandal to the faithful. [/i] §2 If any doubt occurs, the local Ordinary is to be consulted and his judgement followed. Can. 1185 Any form of funeral Mass is also to be denied to a person who has been excluded from a Church funeral. We should also remember a very important canon: Can. 220 No one may unlawfully harm the good reputation which a person enjoys, or violate the right of every person to protect his or her privacy. [/quote] unfortunately, we all know that canon law does not speak for itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 [quote name='aggiornamento' timestamp='1309323076' post='2260105'] unfortunately, we all know that canon law does not speak for itself. [/quote] Seems quite clear to me. Of course I speak legalese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeresaBenedicta Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1309324463' post='2260114'] Seems quite clear to me. Of course I speak legalese. [/quote] Seemed clear to me, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 [quote name='aggiornamento' timestamp='1309323076' post='2260105'] unfortunately, we all know that canon law does not speak for itself. [/quote] Crystal clear to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Quite clear, and at the end of the day simply common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1309324463' post='2260114'] Seems quite clear to me. Of course I speak legalese. [/quote] Seems clear to me, and I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 [quote name='aggiornamento' timestamp='1309323076' post='2260105'] unfortunately, we all know that canon law does not speak for itself. [/quote] Of course not, it's a book... But the message is crystal clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Cruz Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 [quote name='aggiornamento' timestamp='1309323076' post='2260105'] unfortunately, we all know that canon law does not speak for itself. [/quote] It speaks for the common good facilitating "the tranquility of order" (Aquinas's phrase) which we all desire. Not only is it clear but it is also a command we are to follow coming from legitimate authority, Mother Church. To think we know better would be a form of pride and delusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katholikkid Posted June 29, 2011 Author Share Posted June 29, 2011 (edited) As with most canon law it is up to the local ordinary in the end. So the scandal to the faithful in his diocese may not be the same for other faithful in other dioceses. To be honest I live in New England homosexuality here is not to scandalous. It might be in more rural areas of the nation. Perhaps in San Diego this is not too much of an issue which is why when the matter was appealed to the Bishop he did allow the funeral to be held at the gentleman's parish if the family wished it. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/pope.gif[/img] Edited June 29, 2011 by katholikkid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeresaBenedicta Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 [quote name='katholikkid' timestamp='1309360203' post='2260255'] As with most canon law it is up to the local ordinary in the end. So the scandal to the faithful in his diocese may not be the same for other faithful. To be honest I live in New England homosexuality here is not to scandalous. It might be in rural areas. Perhaps in San Diego this is not too much of an issue which is why the when appealed to the Bishop did allow the funeral to be held at the gentleman's parish if the family wished it. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/pope.gif[/img] [/quote] Actually, it has more to do with the faith and the teachings of the Church, than it does specifically with homosexuality. The latter could be as prominent as folks carrying smart phones, but it wouldn't change the scandal involved when/if the Church celebrates a Catholic funeral for an unrepentant, public sinner. In fact, I'd say it's potentially even [i]more[/i] scandalous where the sin is more prevalent, because it then appears that the Church condones that action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Little Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1309286839' post='2259786'] He died having lived in a state, quite publicly, which was contrary to moral law. If I'm not mistaken, a publicly celebrated requiem Mass would be inappropriate in his circumstances. [/quote] They are still human beings. And people cannot help how they born. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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