Cam42 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 [quote name='sixpence' timestamp='1309290193' post='2259834'] oh my goodness!.... please be consoled.... () I was not trying to claim that this guy was leading a celibate lifestlye at all; I'm sure he wasn't... I simply meant that the reporter should have clarified that this was the reasoning and not just because the guy was gay... [/quote] But that would have taken journalistic integrity with regard to a Catholic stance from the MSM...I'll stop holding my breath now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1309290189' post='2259833'] What's the problem? He was a devout Catholic... according to the article. [/quote] I''ve got some good oceanfront property in Colorado I'd like to sell you....you down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 There needs to be a sarcastic emoticon. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/brickwall.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixpence Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1309290957' post='2259846'] There needs to be a sarcastic emoticon. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/brickwall.gif[/img] [/quote] this might work. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1309288213' post='2259809'] How many homosexuals do you know who are linked to a "partner" live a celibate lifestyle? [/quote] I've known two gay couples that were celibate. Both were female and elderly. One couple had never had sex. My mother has been living in sin with a man for over 25 years, and they don't have sex (and I do so love hearing my elderly mother discuss her sexual history). I don't think that someone who is publicly against Church teachings should be given a High Mass, but I also don't think that we have the right to judge what might have been in his heart, when the last time he went to confession, etc. He may have given a last confession that we have no knowledge of. Fr. Groeschel talked about ministering to the founder of Act-up at their order's hospice. He said that he had heard his final confession, and that he believed he had been saved. He also said that he'd probably be on the clean-up crew in purgatory after everyone else had left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1309290749' post='2259840'] Exactly my point. The media loves to always put devout in there regardless. The author was trying to sway the reader. A 2nd grader can see the contradiction in someone being a devout Catholic while having sex with other men. [/quote] I figured you were being sarcastic, but I thought it would be even more offensive to incorrectly assume that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1309292673' post='2259864'] I've known two gay couples that were celibate. Both were female and elderly. One couple had never had sex. My mother has been living in sin with a man for over 25 years, and they don't have sex (and I do so love hearing my elderly mother discuss her sexual history). I don't think that someone who is publicly against Church teachings should be given a High Mass, but I also don't think that we have the right to judge what might have been in his heart, when the last time he went to confession, etc. He may have given a last confession that we have no knowledge of. Fr. Groeschel talked about ministering to the founder of Act-up at their order's hospice. He said that he had heard his final confession, and that he believed he had been saved. He also said that he'd probably be on the clean-up crew in purgatory after everyone else had left. [/quote] This isn't a judgment against your mother. It has nothing to do with this conversation. As for your two gay couples....two out of how many...? One can always find the exception to the rule, if one looks hard enough, but that certainly isn't the norm. And if there is more to the morality of the issue than simply the sexual action. I can be quite certain in saying that your gay couples didn't find the love they had for one another to simply be brotherly. In other words, there was romantic love involved, even if they were not acting outwardly upon it. And that is the part of the relationship which is disordered....the Catechism says "relations." It then goes on to define specific acts as being depraved, but it says that relations do not derive from affective, as well as sexual complementarity....(cf. CCC #2357) At that point inner freedom and self-mastery must be sought and an attempt to attain it must be made (cf. CCC #2359). This certainly can be understood to mean that there is more to the psychological disorder of homosexuality and that it too is not compatible with Catholic teaching.... As for me, I was not judging what was in his heart, I was making an educated statement that had he sought out the Sacrament of Penance, he would have been free to be buried from his parish church. It is safe to assume he did not do that, because Penance was either not granted or not sought out. As for Fr. Groeschel, I don't doubt that, but then again, had this been the case with the subject at hand, my above statement would hold up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XIX Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I'm actually a little surprised. I know someone who committed suicide and was given a funeral Mass. I'm not saying the parish in question is right or wrong, I'm just saying it never crossed my mind that someone would be denied a funeral Mass. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 [quote name='XIX' timestamp='1309294312' post='2259881'] I'm actually a little surprised. I know someone who committed suicide and was given a funeral Mass. I'm not saying the parish in question is right or wrong, I'm just saying it never crossed my mind that someone would be denied a funeral Mass. Interesting. [/quote] I am too...to be honest...I just had a co-worker commit suicide yesterday and there will be no Requiem Mass for him. Arrangements are being made for the funeral home to have a memorial service...he was Catholic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wikitiki Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 My dad wasn't even Catholic and he had a Catholic funeral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1309294925' post='2259891'] I am too...to be honest...I just had a co-worker commit suicide yesterday and there will be no Requiem Mass for him. Arrangements are being made for the funeral home to have a memorial service...he was Catholic. [/quote] How sad. Usually most suicides are given the benefit of the doubt and given a Catholic funeral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Sometimes it has nothing to do with the parish, but the family when someone isn't given a Catholic funeral. [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1309293590' post='2259874'] This isn't a judgment against your mother. It has nothing to do with this conversation. As for your two gay couples....two out of how many...? One can always find the exception to the rule, if one looks hard enough, but that certainly isn't the norm. And if there is more to the morality of the issue than simply the sexual action. I can be quite certain in saying that your gay couples didn't find the love they had for one another to simply be brotherly. In other words, there was romantic love involved, even if they were not acting outwardly upon it. And that is the part of the relationship which is disordered....the Catechism says "relations." It then goes on to define specific acts as being depraved, but it says that relations do not derive from affective, as well as sexual complementarity....(cf. CCC #2357) [/quote] There was a time in the 80's that I had over a hundred gay clients. I was one of the only attorneys who would deal with people who had AIDS (or be in the same room with them actually), and from that I was labeled as a gay-friendly lawyer. I was always upfront about my views about their lifestyles, but that didn't mean that they weren't entitled to proper legal representation. Had a lot of friends who seriously didn't understand what I was doing, and faced some serious gossip. My job was about helping them get their affairs in order before they died. Sometimes it was a real race against time. I don't miss it. I just kept reminding myself to treat them as I would like to be treated. A bunch of my AIDS clients were drug users, so again, not the toast of society. Funerals are always full of potential conflict. It's like walking in a mind field. It's a sacramental for the deceased, but really it more for the survivors. I doubt that a Catholic in a state of grace would go to hell because he didn't have a Catholic funeral. I have problems when we have large, public funerals for dissenters. If they are going to have one, it should be small and private. Kennedy comes to mind. I'm just glad I'm not the one who has to make the decision who gets one and who doesn't. Oh yeah, I know that no one was taking shots at people like my mom. I use her as an example to show the focus of our discussions with homosexuals always seems to be that we hate them because of the way they were born (if you believe in that theory), when in fact it is about their actions, not their genetics. My mom is technically living in sin, but not having sex, so even though to the public it may be scandalous, but to the church, not so much. Mostly my brothers and I despise the man she's with, but I suppose that is par for the course when it comes to widowed moms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil'Monster Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1309288267' post='2259810'] I think this article is gay. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1309310930' post='2260013'] Sometimes it has nothing to do with the parish, but the family when someone isn't given a Catholic funeral. There was a time in the 80's that I had over a hundred gay clients. I was one of the only attorneys who would deal with people who had AIDS (or be in the same room with them actually), and from that I was labeled as a gay-friendly lawyer. I was always upfront about my views about their lifestyles, but that didn't mean that they weren't entitled to proper legal representation. Had a lot of friends who seriously didn't understand what I was doing, and faced some serious gossip. My job was about helping them get their affairs in order before they died. Sometimes it was a real race against time. I don't miss it. I just kept reminding myself to treat them as I would like to be treated. A bunch of my AIDS clients were drug users, so again, not the toast of society. Funerals are always full of potential conflict. It's like walking in a mind field. It's a sacramental for the deceased, but really it more for the survivors. I doubt that a Catholic in a state of grace would go to hell because he didn't have a Catholic funeral. I have problems when we have large, public funerals for dissenters. If they are going to have one, it should be small and private. Kennedy comes to mind. I'm just glad I'm not the one who has to make the decision who gets one and who doesn't. Oh yeah, I know that no one was taking shots at people like my mom. I use her as an example to show the focus of our discussions with homosexuals always seems to be that we hate them because of the way they were born (if you believe in that theory), when in fact it is about their actions, not their genetics. My mom is technically living in sin, but not having sex, so even though to the public it may be scandalous, but to the church, not so much. Mostly my brothers and I despise the man she's with, but I suppose that is par for the course when it comes to widowed moms. [/quote] I'm not so sure it's genetics...there's a pretty strong argument that can be made that it is a choice. But I'm not going to argue that...that isn't the point of this thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggiornamento Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 [quote name='katholikkid' timestamp='1309286470' post='2259778'] SAN DIEGO -- A funeral service for a gay parishioner that was canceled by a Catholic church will be allowed to take place, according to the Roman Catholic Diocese of San Diego. The church, however, has not communicated the decision change to either the family of the deceased man or the media. Local businessman and devout Catholic John Sanfilippo died last week after struggling with emphysema. Friends said Sanfilippo planned for the funeral mass to be held at Our Lady of the Rosary Catholic Church in Little Italy, where Sanfilippo had attended for decades. Friends said he even left the church a large sum of money in his will. This past weekend, Sanfilippo's partner of 28 years and Sanfilippo's family were notified that the church canceled the funeral because Sanfilippo was gay. Friend Patrick Cannon told 10News, "The fact that they're now turning their backs on him is a… sad thing." "It's like 2005 all over again for us Catholics… especially us gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender Catholics," said Nicole Murray-Ramirez, Sanfilippo's friend. Ramirez told 10News the same thing happened in 2005 when Bishop Robert Brom said John McCusker, a gay businessman, could not have his funeral at any of the diocese's churches. McCusker's funeral was eventually held at an Episcopal church. Friends said some of McCusker's family converted to the Episcopalian church because of the way they were treated by the Catholic Church. Bishop Brom apologized to the family after the fact. "This is the only diocese [where] this has come up," said Ramirez, who is also Catholic. "This is the second time in the entire nation." He led a small group in prayer outside the Our Lady of the Rosary on Monday and taped a letter addressed to Brom to the front door of the church. Ramirez said the letter asks the bishop to clarify the church's position on funerals for gay parishioners. "Are there going to be others that are going to be denied in the future? Will we have to go through this again?" asked Ramirez. Sanfilippo's partner and his family were not available for comment on Monday. In an email, Rodrigo Valdivia, the chancellor of the Roman Catholic Diocese of San Diego, told 10News, "The Diocesan office was notified about this situation earlier today... Diocesan Authorities have concluded that the funeral as scheduled at Our Lady of the Rosary Parish may take place. Plans for the ritual are yet to be made." At the cocktail lounge that Sanfilippo owned for 28 years came outrage from friends over what some called a confusing statement from the San Diego diocese. "All of a sudden, they change their mind and say, 'Well, you know, we may still allow the funeral to be here.' Why? Because they got caught in the process of denying equal rights to people?" asked Neil Thomas, a friend and customer of Sanfilippo's. Cannon also believes the statement is unclear. "I think it's confusing… They did their best to put the verbiage in there that they needed because they still have their… out," he said. Ramirez said the statement was proof the parish was acting alone and the diocese needs a diocese-wide policy so a similar situation does not happen again. But after a hurtful rejection, it appears Sanfilippo's family has moved on. "From what I'm told, they don't want it there now," said Thomas. Ramirez said Sanfilippo's family had already found another Catholic church for the funeral. Ramirez said the family would not feel comfortable going back to Our Lady of the Rosary after what happened. No one from Our Lady of the Rosary was available for comment. --San Diego 10 News. First of all I am a new-ish member of phatmass and love it! Since this is such a hot topic lately I would like your guy's thoughts on it. Pax Christi :-) [/quote] sad. glad they found another church to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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