Interesting Article From The La Times

[praxedes]

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0626-lopez-noflyingnun-20110626,0,4603623.column

Some of you may have already seen this. We did in another city, and found it quite inspiring. Some of you near Los Angeles might want to make the trip.

Oops...I saw that I used a lower case "a" for LA Times. Apologies!

Edited June 28, 2011 by praxedes

[franciscanheart]

I'm glad she's doing good work, but the commentary on the habit and the need for women to take over the church makes me sad.

(BTW - You probably did use a capital "A" in the title. The phorum automatically capitalizes the first letter in each word in the title, and makes all the following letters lowercase. Annoying!)

[OnlySunshine]

I hate this quote:

[quote]This is all the more proof that the church would be in much better shape if it were run by women. With all the trouble caused by abusive priests and their male protectors, it seems like the Vatican could find something better to do than peek into convents. So why the scrutiny?[/quote]

There is a legitimate reason for the Vatican to be looking at women religious. There have been several convents that have started doing things less than savory like Reiki, labyrinths, etc. that take away from religious life. There are also religious orders that are involved in the "roman catholic womenpriest" movement. I was just there today and saw that several oblates and Sisters have been "ordained" by this false movement. It's heartwrenching to hear such disobedience in the Holy Mother Church.

[Maximilianus]

I made it a few paragraphs in before I was turned off by this Steve Lopez's tripe. He does no justice for this sister.

[Santa Cruz]

God Bless this Sister and her work however I disagree with the article. The Visitation of Communities in the US is being lead by women Religious and the report on the findings is being written by a woman Religious. So, no, it is not the Vatican peeking into convents. How funny! And MM mentioned a few of the very good reasons why the Visitation is needed. Well, Women Religious will be misunderstood and seen as oppressed by persons who do not love and honor our Blessed Mother. Men running the Church? God is in charge of the Catholic Church, He formed the Church, feeds the Church, is the Church, inspires the Church... We are His instruments.

Has anyone seen the exhibit? I hope it has not taken the same tone as the article!

[praxedes]

Forgive my ignorance, but when I visited Chartres (oh, what a dream!) the "high-point" of the visit to the Cathedral was seeing the labyrinth. Why is this a "bone of contention?" We do not use one, I have no idea what one is supposed to do with it, we looked at it in France more from the architectural/beauty point. I have never seen one outside of France (Chartres) but then again, I haven't been too many places.

The exhibit, which I saw, was really lovely. It was very edifying to see how many women religious built up this country, and the artifacts were treated with a great deal of dignity and respect. As I said, I saw it in another city, and the day I went, there were many religious women there and most of them were in habits. I can't say I was thrilled with some of the things I saw, but I do have a marked interest in the beginnings of religious life in this country and what our foresisters/mothers did for all of us. Anybody with a love of that part of the Church should see it. And, I should say, everybody was very respectful. There could have been religious in lay clothing but of course - who would know?

[Graciela]

[quote name='praxedes' timestamp='1309302223' post='2259933']
Forgive my ignorance, but when I visited Chartres (oh, what a dream!) the "high-point" of the visit to the Cathedral was seeing the labyrinth. Why is this a "bone of contention?" We do not use one, I have no idea what one is supposed to do with it, we looked at it in France more from the architectural/beauty point. I have never seen one outside of France (Chartres) but then again, I haven't been too many places.[/quote]

You are exactly correct about this. Labyrinths are found in many northern French churches and abbeys, dating to the middle ages. Some sources suggest that they were used by the faithful as a "subsitute" way to make a pilgrimage when taking a geographically far pilgrimage was not possible for people. I get rather tired of people making uninformed generalizations that these are unsavory. Prayerful walking of a labyrinth can be, at least for some folks, a (literally and interiorly) moving contemplation of the journey to God. It does not take a lot of investigation to discover the history of labyrinths, and although they do have a pre-Christian history, so do many of the calendar dates that are now important feasts and solemnities of the church year.

Graciela

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='Graciela' timestamp='1309304574' post='2259949']
[quote name='praxedes' timestamp='1309302223' post='2259933']
Forgive my ignorance, but when I visited Chartres (oh, what a dream!) the "high-point" of the visit to the Cathedral was seeing the labyrinth. Why is this a "bone of contention?" We do not use one, I have no idea what one is supposed to do with it, we looked at it in France more from the architectural/beauty point. I have never seen one outside of France (Chartres) but then again, I haven't been too many places.[/quote]

You are exactly correct about this. Labyrinths are found in many northern French churches and abbeys, dating to the middle ages. Some sources suggest that they were used by the faithful as a "subsitute" way to make a pilgrimage when taking a geographically far pilgrimage was not possible for people. I get rather tired of people making uninformed generalizations that these are unsavory. Prayerful walking of a labyrinth can be, at least for some folks, a (literally and interiorly) moving contemplation of the journey to God. It does not take a lot of investigation to discover the history of labyrinths, and although they do have a pre-Christian history, so do many of the calendar dates that are now important feasts and solemnities of the church year.

Graciela
[/quote]

It is not just me who finds such things problematic. They are not allowed by the Church. I've read various articles about warnings against modern day labyrinths and I find them uncomfortable. It is my own opinion that they have no place in religious life.

http://womenofgrace.com/newage/?p=34

[praxedes]

I found this from Catholic online (http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=6756). I also looked on New Advent's Catholic Encyclopedia, which has almost (if not exactly ) the same explanation. Anything negative I could find was from individual bloggers and websites. What I found is the only thing that seems to be "official" at all. I have never seen anybody walk one, or use any prayers, but apparently whatever prayers and/or devotions were used have been lost. However, this short article/paragraph(s) don't seem to be negative regarding them.

[u][b]Labyrinth[/b][/u]

A complicated arrangement of paths and passages; or a place, usually subterraneous, full of windings, corridors, rooms, etc., so intricately arranged as to render the getting out of it a very difficult matter.

The labyrinth as an architectural term derives its name from the famous ancient or mythical labyrinths of Crete and Egypt. Geometrical figures composed of various pieces of coloured marbles and so disposed as to form labyrinths were frequently found in the pavements of French cathedrals and so-called labyrinthes de pavé . The finest remaining example is in the centre of the nave of Notre Dame, Chartres, and a person following the various windings and turns of the figure would walk nearly 800 feet before he arrived at the centre, although the circumference does not exceed thirteen yards. Similar labyrinths formerly existed at Notre Dame, Paris, at the cathedral of Reims, and at Amiens. This latter was only taken up in the latter part of the last century, and the centre stone (which is octangular and was formerly inlaid with brass imagery) is still preserved in the museum of that city. These labyrinths were supposed to have originated in a symbolical allusion to the Holy City, and certain prayers and devotions doubtless accompanied the perambulation of their intricate mazes.

In modern times, generally a fantastic arrangement of lofty and thick hedges in a garden as at Hampton Court, where it is difficult to find one's way to the centre.

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='praxedes' timestamp='1309309001' post='2259992']
I found this from Catholic online (http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=6756). I also looked on New Advent's Catholic Encyclopedia, which has almost (if not exactly ) the same explanation. Anything negative I could find was from individual bloggers and websites. What I found is the only thing that seems to be "official" at all. I have never seen anybody walk one, or use any prayers, but apparently whatever prayers and/or devotions were used have been lost. However, this short article/paragraph(s) don't seem to be negative regarding them.

[u][b]Labyrinth[/b][/u]

A complicated arrangement of paths and passages; or a place, usually subterraneous, full of windings, corridors, rooms, etc., so intricately arranged as to render the getting out of it a very difficult matter.

The labyrinth as an architectural term derives its name from the famous ancient or mythical labyrinths of Crete and Egypt. Geometrical figures composed of various pieces of coloured marbles and so disposed as to form labyrinths were frequently found in the pavements of French cathedrals and so-called labyrinthes de pavé . The finest remaining example is in the centre of the nave of Notre Dame, Chartres, and a person following the various windings and turns of the figure would walk nearly 800 feet before he arrived at the centre, although the circumference does not exceed thirteen yards. Similar labyrinths formerly existed at Notre Dame, Paris, at the cathedral of Reims, and at Amiens. This latter was only taken up in the latter part of the last century, and the centre stone (which is octangular and was formerly inlaid with brass imagery) is still preserved in the museum of that city. These labyrinths were supposed to have originated in a symbolical allusion to the Holy City, and certain prayers and devotions doubtless accompanied the perambulation of their intricate mazes.

In modern times, generally a fantastic arrangement of lofty and thick hedges in a garden as at Hampton Court, where it is difficult to find one's way to the centre.
[/quote]

I think the issue lies with the modern day use of labyrinths. The practice has been twisted so it's now a pagan ritual, not a Christian one. I don't have any comment on the old ones. But when labyrinths are combined with Reiki or other pagan practices, then it is not compatible with Catholicism. I tried to edit my previous post, but I think I was too late.

[Pax_et bonum]

I spent last week at a service camp/retreat. The first site my small group went to was a Catholic Worker House, and they had us building a labyrinth behind the women's house (it was also supposed to double as a patio). Br. Giles (a Franciscan Brother Minor) was in charge of our group and didn't like the whole thing. He warned the person in charge about them, but they still had us start building it and other groups throughout the week worked more on it. Br. Giles explained to us on the bus ride back that the labyrinth is about emptying yourself as you walk it. This is contrary to Christianity because we seek God/Jesus and to come closer to Him, not be empty waiting for anything to come into us.

[praxedes]

Thank you for your explanation. I'm visiting family and have had the luxury of being on the computer today! I just watched the Priest holding the Blessed Sacrament in the middle of the street while people knelt, and I am just astounded at the amount of Catholic information on the internet. I have had fun with the "Order Guessing Game" and I used most of my time trying to figure that one out! Still waiting to see if I finally got it! I really looked for things on the labyrinth, and wanted to see something "solid" but in looking, I did pass by some negative remarks which fit in with your comments. So perhaps the Church proper hasn't exactly made a ruling, but individuals are just mixing and matching and in that case, I see how it would not be compatible; but perhaps if it were used in a very holy and respectful way, using the proper devotions are prayers, it would be an excellent practice. Thank you, MM, for your clarification. I cringe when I see people wearing a Rosary, but I did just learn that in some cultures (I'm American) that is a sign of respect and devotion, so I suppose we all can learn things.

[Lilllabettt]

A lot of things would be better if they were run by women. The Church is run by God. That is even better than women!

The labyrinth has been co-opted into a code word for new age spirituality. This is a shame because 1. it has an august history in our Church 2. it is in fact a powerful aid in meditation. The connection between body position and prayer is real. Just ask St. Dominic to show you his 9 ways of prayer!

We should reclaim it from the iffyness!!!

[Antigonos]

[quote name='Graciela' timestamp='1309304574' post='2259949']
Labyrinths are found in many northern French churches and abbeys, dating to the middle ages. Some sources suggest that they were used by the faithful as a "subsitute" way to make a pilgrimage when taking a geographically far pilgrimage was not possible for people. I Graciela
[/quote]


I distinctly remember, as a child, visiting the Franciscan monastery in Washington, DC, which has copies of a number of pilgrimage shrines [catacombs, Lourdes grotto, etc.] and the brother-guide saying that these were "indulgence shrines" [I remember because I asked my father what that meant] So there are "substitute" pilgrimage sites which have Church sanction. Otherwise, I cannot understand the objection to a labyrinth as an architectural or garden feature unless it was meant to be at least symbolic of pilgrimage?

[Santa Cruz]

[quote name='Graciela' timestamp='1309304574' post='2259949']
You are exactly correct about this. Labyrinths are found in many northern French churches and abbeys, dating to the middle ages. Some sources suggest that they were used by the faithful as a "subsitute" way to make a pilgrimage when taking a geographically far pilgrimage was not possible for people.
[/quote]

Dear Graciela, I think the key phrase here is "some sources". There really is not solid documentation that labyrinths were used by the Church as a substitute pilgrimage. That is speculation. Yes there is a labyrinth at Chartes but we are not sure what exactly was its purpose. The push today that it is a lost form of Christian spirituality actually has no grounds, no proof and is only theory.

[quote name='Antigonos' timestamp='1309355229' post='2260218']
I distinctly remember, as a child, visiting the Franciscan monastery in Washington, DC, which has copies of a number of pilgrimage shrines [catacombs, Lourdes grotto, etc.] and the brother-guide saying that these were "indulgence shrines" [I remember because I asked my father what that meant] So there are "substitute" pilgrimage sites which have Church sanction. Otherwise, I cannot understand the objection to a labyrinth as an architectural or garden feature unless it was meant to be at least symbolic of pilgrimage?
[/quote]

Antigonos, what a memory you have! The problem is that labyrinths are not being used as a garden feature but rather spirituality which is not compatible with Catholicism is being incorporated into the labyrinth walks in an attempt to attain a meditative state. In Catholicism, we do not self induce an experience of God. There is not a statement from the Church that I am aware of at this point regarding labyrinths. Rather, learned persons in the Church have warned the faithful not to get caught up on the labyrinth craze which has attempted to combine new age spirituality with Catholicism.

On a personal note, I love attending Daily Mass, adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, praying the Stations of the Cross, the rosary, spiritual reading...walking through a maze when the Way the Truth and the Light is available to me seems like a distraction. Should a Religious Community spend 30 minutes in adoration of the Blessed Sacrament or should they walk the labyrinth? God spare me from any mazes! I want the Truth from the Source.