faithcecelia Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1309213857' post='2259237'] I think what is truly disturbing about this video, is that :47 seconds in, the guy in the wheelchair gets attacked by a giant cockroach. [/quote] I just saw that too watching it in full screen, hadnt noticed it before! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Maybe it would have been a bit more respectful if the priest had carried the monstrance, covered in a silk cloth or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 [quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1309213044' post='2259231'] Actually, we can. from Ritual for Laypersons: Rites for Holy Communion and the Pastoral Care of the Sick and Dying: 57 The ordinary ministers of viaticum are the pastor and his assistantsm chaplains, and, for all staying in the house, the superior in clerical religious institutes or societies of apostolic life. In case of necessity or with at least the presumed mission of the competant minister, any priest or deacon is to give viaticum, or, if no ordained minister is available, any member of the faithful who has been duly appointed. As to the duffel bag, if you blow up the image you can see the image of a monstrance on the side. Looks to me like it specially made for transporting the monstrance in use. Is this the ideal way to do it? no. Does it detract from a normal Eucharistic procession? no. No more than this detracts from celebrating mass on a proper altar with reredo and the proper number of candlesticks, servers, and attendants: [img]http://media.kansas.com/smedia/2009/10/01/17/kapaunemilmass.slideshow_main.prod_affiliate.80.JPG[/img] Desperate times call for desperate measures. I am sure ALL of us can agree that we live in desperate times. So many need to see Jesus and hear His message of hope and love. I remember reading once about one of the medieval saints. I apologize I do not remember which, so I cannot find the reference. As I recall he was speaking with a youger priest who had remarked how beautiful the Church is and so filled with saints. He asked the older priest if it would always be so. The elder replied that he had been granted visions of the future church. He said that the people will not be as reverent nor as well versed in the traditions and trappings of the Church in their day. Many would fall away from faith. The youger priest was aghast. He asked then if the Church would produce any saints in that future time. The older priest stopped walking, turned to him and said Oh yes indeed. And they we be far greater saints than we have now. You see, we fight Satan chained. They, those of lesser reverence, will fight him unleashed on the world. Seems to me we live in those times foretold many centuries ago... [/quote] Ok....so first... It is VERY rare that one cannot get a priest to go to a hospital in the event viaticum is needed. And if the priest is not available, most certainly a deacon is...right? And let's not get into this big thing about oh we have so few deacons and priests, because we just finished with a thread where it was celebrated that 43 deacons were ordained....there are plenty of ordinary ministers to take care of this stuff....my parents live in a town of 5000 and I was able to get the pastor to my mom after she had her heart attack and I lived in the Cities at the time...so I don't buy the NECESSITY argument....the overuse of EMHCs is just out of control. It may be made for carrying a monstrance, but that is NOT how you carry the Blessed Sacrament. I could care less how you get the monstrance there...but the Blessed Sacrament, that is another matter altogether... Nice appeal to emotion to get your point across, but I am pretty sure, no I take that back...I am 100% sure the Franciscan priest was not in the middle of a warzone. Even if he were, and we were to take your picture at face value without seeing the obvious fallacy in using it, the priest, who is in a warzone, is properly dressed, including white alb, celebrating Mass ad orientem, and with a crucifix. I'm pretty sure he'd be standing right by me on this issue... Yes, desperate times do call for desperate measures, but I am also 100% sure the priest in question had the means to orchestrate a proper Eucharistic procession. It would have been just as impactful and it would have been much more respectful to the Blessed Sacrament. Yes, we do live in diabolical times! We certainly do, but we should not forgo our heritage in order to fight Satan. We do that and it is like going to a gun fight with a knife. To key off your picture... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1309212412' post='2259226'] This statement implies that this is how you feel about the priest, and I think this is a bit unfair. Although it may have been disrespectful to carry the Blessed Sacrament in a bag, it's quite obvious that the priest's intentions were not to be disrespectful, so to say that what he did was disrespectful, extreme and indefensible, is going a bit overboard in my opinion. Regarding getting people to see it your way, I think there is a point in which you lose an argument by being so vehemently opposed to acknowledging any glimmer of understanding to the opposing viewpoint. I think most people will just flip the off switch instead of actually listening to what you are saying. In all honesty, I see no difference between reverently (which the priest was) carrying the Eucharist inside of a monstrance, inside of a bag, and carrying the Eucharist inside of a pyx, inside of a pocket. Neither is a procession fit for a King, yet, the church allows the latter, so I don't think it is such an extreme stretch to think that the bishop would have allowed this--which it is his right to do. [/quote] Yes, I am very disappointed in the priest. I won't hide it. I am certain he knew better. He is a priest. Priests are not above reproach dUSt. They make mistakes...they can be erroneous....unless of course I'm not allowed to criticize Richard McBrien or John Courtney Murray or Phleger in Chicago, come on... The priest made a mistake and he was disrespectful of the Blessed Sacrament. We have a right to call that kind of stuff out. I'm not being hurtful to the Church or to the priest for doing that... There is a huge difference dUSt. It is huge!!!!! One way keeps the Blessed Sacrament secure and close to the person (in a case on a string close to the heart). The other (in a duffle bag), no way...that is a stretch.... I might be making a big deal out of this, but honestly, it's because there are a bunch of Catholics who don't see the sacrilege in how much disrespect the Blessed Sacrament is being shown....if a priest came out of the Sacristy and exposed the Blessed Sacrament the same way, the whole board would be up in arms...but since it's a hip and cool "flash mob," somehow it's ok.... I don't think that had the bishop known that this is how the Blessed Sacrament was being handled, he would have approved. I just can't believe that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I can't believe that after 4 pages I'm STILL defending proper reverence of the Blessed Sacrament... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1309215606' post='2259245'] Maybe it would have been a bit more respectful if the priest had carried the monstrance, covered in a silk cloth or something like that. [/quote] Or in a Eucharistic Procession with the solemnity that the Blessed Sacrament is due... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1309220608' post='2259267'] Or in a Eucharistic Procession with the solemnity that the Blessed Sacrament is due... [/quote] I agree that that would be best.I wish there were much more of those. [img]http://www.fsspnigeria.org/media/Liturgy/Corpus%20Christi/The%20procession%20(rear).JPG[/img] If they can do it in the middle of nowhere in Nigeria, they can do it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeresaBenedicta Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1309220608' post='2259267'] Or in a Eucharistic Procession with the solemnity that the Blessed Sacrament is due... [/quote] Cam- a question for you: In your opinion, is there no way that such an event could have been put on [i]without[/i] a full procession? If, for instance, the specific treatment of the Blessed Sacrament in this scenario was fixed? Or can it only be "fixed" by a full procession? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 [quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1309221248' post='2259269'] Cam- a question for you: In your opinion, is there no way that such an event could have been put on [i]without[/i] a full procession? If, for instance, the specific treatment of the Blessed Sacrament in this scenario was fixed? Or can it only be "fixed" by a full procession? [/quote] In my opinion, I think that it can only be fixed by a proper Procession. This is what the Church envisions, so this is what we should do. As Joe said above, if they can do it in the "heart of darkness"...they can certainly do it in the "heart of London." If you get my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1309221618' post='2259271'] In my opinion, I think that it can only be fixed by a proper Procession. This is what the Church envisions, so this is what we should do. As Joe said above, if they can do it in the "heart of darkness"...they can certainly do it in the "heart of London." If you get my point. [/quote] Just reading this thread and yes, as is usual on anything liturgical Cam is spot on. There is no reason that the priest could not bring the Eucharist to this particular spot if he so wished, but it should have been done appropriately. Eucharistic exposition = amesome. People stopping to reverence the Eucharist = amesome. The evangelistic power of God = amesome. Carrying God in a duffel bag = not amesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeresaBenedicta Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1309221618' post='2259271'] In my opinion, I think that it can only be fixed by a proper Procession. [/quote] I agree that a renewal of Processions is necessary and a good. And they're certainly possible in the everyday USA city. We just had an amesome one in the Pacific Northwest. Got a lot of stares, to be sure. But we took our faith, and our God, to the streets. On the other hand, I think at the core of this particular video was something slightly different than that of a full Procession. There is something super powerful about a Procession, no doubt. But I also think there can be something extremely powerful about simplicity as well. Here's how I'd envision this event more properly done: The priest would either A) carry the Blessed Sacrament to the intended place, with two servers with candles or B) carry the Blessed Sacrament in a pyx, properly, and the monstrance in whatever mode (duffel bag, case, etc), and expose the Blessed Sacrament after arriving the intended place. A table with two candles and a corporal would be in place for handling the exposition and reposition of the Blessed Sacrament. The priest would wear an alb and a humeral veil. The simplicity remains intact, and the Blessed Sacrament is respected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1309219907' post='2259262'] Ok....so first... It is VERY rare that one cannot get a priest to go to a hospital in the event viaticum is needed. And if the priest is not available, most certainly a deacon is...right? [/quote] A priest wouldn't come to my mother's death bed. Instead, the so-called "Catholic" hospital staff called a baptist chaplain... I'm sick and tired of these !@#!@# liberals and their modernist poison in the Church... I say Catholic priests need to work harder and harder because Satan never rests... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 If these folks wanted people to experience Adoration and a Eucharistic Procession, do it right, with reverence and respect... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 [quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1309223454' post='2259290'] A priest wouldn't come to my mother's death bed. Instead, the so-called "Catholic" hospital staff called a baptist chaplain... I'm sick and tired of these !@#!@# liberals and their modernist poison in the Church... I say Catholic priests need to work harder and harder because Satan never rests... [/quote] my first miscarriage, at a "Catholic" hospital, I asked for a priest. They sent a woman minister (of another ecclesial community) because she was the spiritual minister on call. ridiculous... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 [quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1309223454' post='2259290'] I'm sick and tired of these !@#!@# liberals and their modernist poison in the Church... I say Catholic priests need to work harder and harder because Satan never rests... [/quote] You sound like one of them Pharisaical trads! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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