New York Legalises Same-Sex Marriage

[Cam42]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1309289431' post='2259828']
I'm not a political conservative though, in its current sense...
[/quote]

Yah, you're Canadian, eh.

[StMichael]

Sexual "love"?

It is lust. Twisted and against nature.

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1309277105' post='2259702']
Is sexual love the only way describe the homosexual relationship?
[/quote]

[kujo]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1309289431' post='2259828']
I'm not a political conservative though, in its current sense...
[/quote]

Make it two things we agree on

I'm a classical liberal (see: John Locke, Adam Smith), which is closer to American conservatism. However, modern conservativism (or "Republicanism") seems to have acquiesced its "limited federal government" platform in favor of using the federal tyranny to impose its own social and economic principles.

[quote name='StMichael' timestamp='1309291021' post='2259847']
Sexual "love"?

It is lust. Twisted and against nature.
[/quote]

I guess we'll agree to disagree.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1309287227' post='2259793']
Ooh, it's been a while on Phatmass since we say the "Conservatives are cavemen" argument.
[/quote]
I resent this kind of despicable 19th century prejudice. Modern science has completely discredited the old "cavemen as inferior brutes" stereotype. Racism and hate speech. smh...

I'm proud of my caveman roots.

Edited June 28, 2011 by Laudate_Dominum

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1309290937' post='2259845']
Yah, you're Canadian, eh.
[/quote]
Unfortunately.

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1309292244' post='2259861']
I resent this kind of despicable 19th century prejudice. Modern science has completely discredited the old "cavemen as inferior brutes" stereotype. Racism and hate speech. smh...

I'm proud of my caveman roots.
[/quote]

[img]http://mudpreacher.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/brute-beast.jpg[/img]

[Cam42]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1309292244' post='2259861']
I resent this kind of despicable 19th century prejudice. Modern science has completely discredited the old "cavemen as inferior brutes" stereotype. Racism and hate speech. smh...

I'm proud of my caveman roots.
[/quote]

And Warren Buffet Loves you for it....

[spoiler][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H02iwWCrXew[/media][/spoiler]

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1309277105' post='2259702']
Is sexual love the only way describe the homosexual relationship?
[/quote]

No, it is a disordered desire, like masturbation.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1309292712' post='2259865']


[pictcha]
[/quote]
Thought of making an avatar out of that one time. But teh real inspiration of teh SN is the Holy Bible.

"So foolish was I, and ignorant: I was as a brute beast before thee."

[quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1309292716' post='2259866']
And Warren Buffet Loves you for it....

[spoiler][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H02iwWCrXew[/media][/spoiler]
[/quote]
You are not Herbert.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1309277105' post='2259702']
Is sexual love the only way describe the homosexual relationship?
[/quote]
not according to teh urban dictionary.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1309277690' post='2259704']
I praise you for your charity, and hope that you realize that sometimes our brothers and sisters don't espouse the same attitude.
[/quote]

Anyone who deviates from a charitable evangelistic attitude towards anyone must seek to find that charity without compromise to the truth.

[quote]
I have always found the Church's teaching on homosexuality far more progressive than that of the Protestants. I make a point, whenever talking to anyone about this issue, to draw a distinction between the hell-fire and brimstone of the evangelicals and the more pastoral position of the Church.
[/quote]

Protestants lack the fulness of the truth, so it shouldn't come as a surprise. The Church is not 'progressive' or 'conservative', it preaches only the revealed truth of God which does not operate on a political sliding scale. Political correctness is a sad mistake some Catholics make, even bishops, but we are all striving after perfection.

[quote]
Rest assured that I have NOT lost my faith. A random designation given by some guy who operates some website definitely doesn't represent my belief. I am truly, wholly Catholic. I disagree with the lack of charity and love shown to homosexuals by some Catholics, but that does not mean I am no longer Catholic.
[/quote]

My mistake then, I had thought you were promoting homosexual marriage and that is why you got your tag. If you believe the whole Catholic faith, than good for you, I take back what I said. If you do believe in any heresy than one can say you have lost your faith. Arius after all did not reject every truth guarded by the holy Catholic Church, but heresy is none the less a grave sin. We all make mistakes at times and have to recant.

[kujo]

[quote name='Brother Adam' timestamp='1309307525' post='2259970']
My mistake then, I had thought you were promoting homosexual marriage and that is why you got your tag. If you believe the whole Catholic faith, than good for you, I take back what I said. If you do believe in any heresy than one can say you have lost your faith. Arius after all did not reject every truth guarded by the holy Catholic Church, but heresy is none the less a grave sin. We all make mistakes at times and have to recant.
[/quote]

I am not really "promoting" it, but rather stating that I will not oppose it. I don't need the state to recognize any belief I hold. I guess this gets into the whole "legislating morality" thing, but I just don't believe that the laws of this land ought to impose a restriction based solely on religious teaching. I know I'll get the whole natural law thing thrown back at me here, but I just don't believe that to be true.

I'm not sure where this leaves me, but I do know that I've arrived at my stance based on charity and love. If I'm in error, I'm sure that God will contend with me for it. What I will not do is blindly accept something I don't believe makes sense, especially when it is packaged (by some) in such a derogatory, homophobic, hateful manner.

[StMichael]

Firstly, homosexuals acting on their lustful wants is against our faith. It is a mortal sin.

As Roman Catholics we are to pray for them and while a homosexual can still be in communion with the Church they can only do so by being chaste.

2 men or 2 women getting sanctioned by the state to be perceived as "married" is an insult to marriage. No fruit can come from this union. No foundation can be created.

And we share in the sin by promoting this behavior. Promotion by defending it. Promotion by allowing our judges and wayward representatives "normalize" this sinful behavior.

And please refrain from using homophobic, it is a leftist, statist phrase to slap those who oppose same sex "marriage" and reveals who you really are.

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1309320732' post='2260084']
I am not really "promoting" it, but rather stating that I will not oppose it. I don't need the state to recognize any belief I hold. I guess this gets into the whole "legislating morality" thing, but I just don't believe that the laws of this land ought to impose a restriction based solely on religious teaching. I know I'll get the whole natural law thing thrown back at me here, but I just don't believe that to be true.

I'm not sure where this leaves me, but I do know that I've arrived at my stance based on charity and love. If I'm in error, I'm sure that God will contend with me for it. What I will not do is blindly accept something I don't believe makes sense, especially when it is packaged (by some) in such a derogatory, homophobic, hateful manner.
[/quote]

[aggiornamento]

[quote name='StMichael' timestamp='1309323257' post='2260106']
Firstly, homosexuals acting on their lustful wants is against our faith. It is a mortal sin.

As Roman Catholics we are to pray for them and while a homosexual can still be in communion with the Church they can only do so by being chaste.

2 men or 2 women getting sanctioned by the state to be perceived as "married" is an insult to marriage. No fruit can come from this union. No foundation can be created.

And we share in the sin by promoting this behavior. Promotion by defending it. Promotion by allowing our judges and wayward representatives "normalize" this sinful behavior.

And please refrain from using homophobic, it is a leftist, statist phrase to slap those who oppose same sex "marriage" and reveals who you really are.


[/quote]


homosexuals who engage in sexual activity with members of the same sex are not out of communion with the church. that is a ridiculous statement.

the argument that no fruit can come out of a homosexual marriage is also ridiculous. in Gaudium et Spes, the council fathers clearly rejected the idea that children are the sole end of a marriage.

[font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] [/size][/font][quote][font="Times New Roman"][size="3"][size="3"]Marriage to be sure is not instituted solely for procreation; rather, its very nature as an unbreakable compact between persons, and the welfare of the children, both demand that the mutual love of the spouses be embodied in a rightly ordered manner, that it grow and ripen. Therefore, marriage persists as a whole manner and communion of life, and maintains its value and indissolubility, even when despite the often intense desire of the couple, offspring are lacking.[/size][/size][/font][/quote]


and homophobia is not some made up leftist word. I am not saying that those who oppose gay marriage for religious reasons should be thus branded, but that there are people who genuinely fear and hate homosexuals.

[StMichael]

What we are to know, according to the CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH:

2201 The conjugal community is established upon the consent of the spouses. Marriage and the family are ordered to the good of the spouses and to the procreation and education of children. The love of the spouses and the begetting of children create among members of the same family personal relationships and primordial responsibilities.

2202 [[b]u]A man and a woman united in marriage, together with their children, form a family.[/u] This institution is prior to any recognition by public authority, which has an obligation to recognize it. It should be considered the normal reference point by which the different forms of family relationship are to be evaluated.[/b]

2203 In creating man and woman, God instituted the human family and endowed it with its fundamental constitution. Its members are persons equal in dignity. For the common good of its members and of society, the family necessarily has manifold responsibilities, rights, and duties.

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. [u]Under no circumstances can they be approved.[/u]

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
-------

The act of homosexuality is a mortal sin. To be in communion with the Church you must repent. So this is not a ridiculous statement but an factual statement. Same goes for adulterers, etc.

The use of homophobia is meant to divert the facts in this dialogue, any dialogue. That is a leftist tactic (race is another). Being a homosexual is not a sin. Acting on it is a mortal sin. This couldn't be clearer and is the teachings of the church.

The teachings of our Church also define what marriage is, between a man and a woman. Black and white. So, regardless of what the state says, this is against our faith and is an attack on the Church. The state seeks to become our church, but telling us what we can think, how we can believe and puts itself in the middle of us and our Church. It is indefensible in my opinion.

And the God has this to say, "Leviticus 20:13: If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them."

So, defending the homosexual acts, giving it improper stature, is against our faith, the teachings and the word of God.

We need to prayer for them, not enable them.


[quote name='aggiornamento' timestamp='1309324274' post='2260109']
homosexuals who engage in sexual activity with members of the same sex are not out of communion with the church. that is a ridiculous statement.

the argument that no fruit can come out of a homosexual marriage is also ridiculous. in Gaudium et Spes, the council fathers clearly rejected the idea that children are the sole end of a marriage.

[font="Times New Roman"][size="3"] [/size][/font]


and homophobia is not some made up leftist word. I am not saying that those who oppose gay marriage for religious reasons should be thus branded, but that there are people who genuinely fear and hate homosexuals.
[/quote]

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='jmjtina' timestamp='1309251972' post='2259594']
really?

is persecution only blood and beheadings?

ever heard of white marytrdom?

Seriously, people are losing jobs, families, etc, over standing for traditional marriage and Church teachings. I've seen people people persecuted for their faith. I've been persecuted for my faith. I don't think I need to prove it to you that persecution is happening today, and if you haven't seen it, well, is ignorance bliss?

Do you think I take this lightly? Obviously, there will always be those who take it too lightly.
[/quote]

I am aware of some of that happening. But it will be a fools errand to try and prove to me that more people in the USA have lost jobs/been persecuted for standing up for traditional marriage, than have been fired, beaten or otherwise persecuted for being gay. If you take the often systematic, and certainly extremely prevalent cases of persecution of gay people lightly, then there is a problem.

Not everyone standing up for traditional marriage should be fired, or persecuted. There are some people on this forum(i would hope most) that have built their arguments against gay marriage on a foundation of pure religious principles, and no hate or bigotry, and im sure others in the world think the same way. But some people who could be called as "standing for traditional marriage" are not doing that, and are certainly deserving of the punishment they get for it.

[quote name='Brother Adam' timestamp='1309272973' post='2259671']
While trying to attack what you erroneously claim is a flaw in logic you are using a ton of them yourself. In other words, I am calling out your hypocrisy.
[/quote]


[quote name='Brother Adam' timestamp='1309274213' post='2259679']
If you can cease to try to argue out of an appeal to emotion, you will likely stand a better chance of making a point that will stick.
[/quote]

how about you try responding to my posts with more than one line? talking about points that stick, how about you pick out some of the ones i made that you disagree with and respond to them? responding to my posts with only a "derp logical fallacy ha ha hypocrisy durrrr" is pretty insufficient.



[quote name='StMichael' timestamp='1309323257' post='2260106']
And please refrain from using homophobic, it is a leftist, statist phrase to slap those who oppose same sex "marriage" and reveals who you really are.
[/quote]

Homophobic people exist, and only a person who willingly blinds themselves would say other wise.

that is not to say that all or even most people against gay marriage fit that description, but certainly a load of them do.

[quote name='StMichael' timestamp='1309330038' post='2260149']
The use of homophobia is meant to divert the facts in this dialogue, any dialogue. That is a leftist tactic (race is another). Being a homosexual is not a sin. Acting on it is a mortal sin. This couldn't be clearer and is the teachings of the church.
[/quote]

so now racism and homophobia dont exist? or are they just made up leftist tactics? are you serious?