Girm Is Changing Too...

[dUSt]

[quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1309275629' post='2259685']
Oh, don't get me wrong, I would receive first, then give him the funny look. But of course, I would be returning the funny look...so don'tcha think that maybe, just maybe the priest NOT giving me a funny look first would negate the possibility of me returning such a look?

As my dear departed Granny used to say, "Turnabout is fair play..."
[/quote]
I think the point is, your state of mind at the moment of receiving should not lend itself to you even thinking about funny looks, period.

[katholikkid]

As an altar server and extra ordinary minister I really hope people take this new opportunity to learn how to kneel and receive on the tongue. I greatly respect the venerable practice but there is a way to do it and most people don't know how. Here are some tips.

DO:
-Tilt your head back
-Stick your tongue out halfway

DO NOT:
-Be hasty; wait till the host is firmly placed and THEN re-insert your tongue
-Take the host in your teeth
-Make the priest or EM drop the host in your mouth by just opening it and providing no tongue.
-Make a small gap betwixt your lips like a slot for coins

And there you have it. Peace.

Edited June 28, 2011 by katholikkid

[Aloysius]

come now, I'm sure anyone would be distracted by getting a "funny look" (which I'm assuming means a sort of perterbed look) when they receive the Eucharist. imagine the situation reversed, with the GIRM saying the norm was kneeling unless people wanted to stand, and it was part of your devotion to stand for whatever reason, and you had been receiving a "look" for doing so. you telling me it just wouldn't bother you at all right after reception of communion because you're just that holy? come now, priests shouldn't be giving disapproving glances at people for receiving the Eucharist kneeling, and it bothers people who wish to kneel without drawing undue attention to themselves. sure, if one is a perfect saint about it, then in that moment one might not be bothered at all by a disapproving glance. I think the part about returning the glance was a sort of poetic license thing anyway, not that actually giving the look back is what is important, but having standing from official Church documents to be able to look back at the priest thinking "no, you're wrong, I am allowed to do this, you have no standing to admonish me"

I think with this new translation I will be kneeling when I go to the novus ordo from now on, whereas I previously have not done so. glad to have Rome tweek things to make them clearer like this, it makes it clear that kneeling is doing absolutely nothing wrong (as they have removed the part where the priest is supposed to basically try to convince them to stand from now on)... it is a norm to stand unless the faithful wish to kneel, in which case that's fine too. that's further than I'd have expected them to go, pretty happy about it

[dUSt]

[quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1309302453' post='2259937']
you telling me it just wouldn't bother you at all right after reception of communion because you're just that holy?
[/quote]
No, it wouldn't. If it caught me off guard, sure, but Cam said he's been kneeling for 10 years. I'd think he'd be able to put funny looks out of mind by now. The church calls us to be perfect. We all fail, but that doesn't excuse us from trying. It's not about me being holy, it's about me being able to concentrate.

[Cam42]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1309303040' post='2259942']
No, it wouldn't. If it caught me off guard, sure, but Cam said he's been kneeling for 10 years. I'd think he'd be able to put funny looks out of mind by now. The church calls us to be perfect. We all fail, but that doesn't excuse us from trying. It's not about me being holy, it's about me being able to concentrate.
[/quote]


Kneeling for 10 years doesn't mean that I don't feel weird when someone looks at me funny. Especially since I'm allowed to do it, without question, per a Vatican Clarification.

Also we're not called to be perfect, but to strive to be perfect. We are not. I try, but I fall. I don't make a funny face everytime one is made at me, but there are times and going forward, if a funny face is made at me, you can bet your bippy I will be in the sacristy after Holy Mass.

Oh, this isn't about you...but when a priest makes a funny face at you while you're trying to receive Holy Communion, see how easy it is to concentrate. It' harder than you think. Don't believe me...try it. Go to the most liberal parish in Dallas and kneel to receive Holy Communion, that's what it's like when I am at my parents.

[BG45]

I wonder how Bishop Tod Brown will react to this, given he's told people in his diocese that he won't give [url="http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/abbott/060420"]Communion while kneeling because they're being disobedient.[/url]

[faithcecelia]

[quote name='BG45' timestamp='1309309033' post='2259993']
I wonder how Bishop Tod Brown will react to this, given he's told people in his diocese that he won't give [url="http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/abbott/060420"]Communion while kneeling because they're being disobedient.[/url]
[/quote]


This is appalling! Even if the bishop does have strong views on the matter, and is choosing to offer catechisis as recommended currently, it should not be while the communicant is there waiting to recieve!

In my home parish a few years ago there was a small but important problem with the way a few (just a few) people were recieving communion - I intentionally am not elaborating so as to not have this become its own debate. The issue was addressed firmly and publicly, but certainly not actually during the distribution of the Eucharist !

[Cam42]

[quote name='BG45' timestamp='1309309033' post='2259993']
I wonder how Bishop Tod Brown will react to this, given he's told people in his diocese that he won't give [url="http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/abbott/060420"]Communion while kneeling because they're being disobedient.[/url]
[/quote]


Nothing to see here, move along.....oh and unscrew your face...it ain't funny...

I would resist him to his face.

Edited June 29, 2011 by Cam42

[Aloysius]

cudos to anyone so detached from this world that such looks do not bother them; though there is nothing wrong with seeking justice in this world by confronting someone who gives you a distasteful look just for kneeling to receive your Lord. personally, I'd be bothered by it, it's the pastor of the flock telling me I'm not welcome at that eucharist because I choose to revere Christ in that way. and that's simply not OK. the priest needs to feed Christ's sheep and not make them feel unwelcome, not cause a spectacle out of something just because it's not in lockstep uniformity with the rest of the congregation. it's a legitimate posture for receiving the Eucharist, it's the only posture the Holy Father distributes the Eucharist in at his masses, and I don't blame anyone if they are bothered by a priest giving them a dirty look at that intimate moment.

I think the reaction was to a general perception that people like Cam might, at mass, think too much about what is an abuse and what is not and be destracted from the sacred mysteries by legalism... and of course, I understand the distaste for the liturgical police attitude that can be developped by people; but while the extent to which the average layman should be looking for abuse to be appalled by can be debated, in this particular instance it is a clear instance of a priest being responsible for distracting from the holy reception of the sacrament by giving a disapproving look. it makes one feel unwelcome, even if it happens all the time.

[homeschoolmom]

I think anticipating making such a confrontation (and relishing the opportunity) during Communion is wrong. If you wanna talk to Father prior to Mass or afterwards, etc. Fine and dandy-- have at it. Communion is not the time for such an exchange.

[dUSt]

[quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1309339154' post='2260162']
cudos to anyone so detached from this world that such looks do not bother them; though there is nothing wrong with seeking justice in this world by confronting someone who gives you a distasteful look just for kneeling to receive your Lord. personally, I'd be bothered by it, it's the pastor of the flock telling me I'm not welcome at that eucharist because I choose to revere Christ in that way. and that's simply not OK. the priest needs to feed Christ's sheep and not make them feel unwelcome, not cause a spectacle out of something just because it's not in lockstep uniformity with the rest of the congregation. it's a legitimate posture for receiving the Eucharist, it's the only posture the Holy Father distributes the Eucharist in at his masses, and I don't blame anyone if they are bothered by a priest giving them a dirty look at that intimate moment.

I think the reaction was to a general perception that people like Cam might, at mass, think too much about what is an abuse and what is not and be destracted from the sacred mysteries by legalism... and of course, I understand the distaste for the liturgical police attitude that can be developped by people; but while the extent to which the average layman should be looking for abuse to be appalled by can be debated, in this particular instance it is a clear instance of a priest being responsible for distracting from the holy reception of the sacrament by giving a disapproving look. it makes one feel unwelcome, even if it happens all the time.
[/quote]
I understand and agree.

I'm just saying that we should try not to let that be an issue as we are receiving. At that moment, 100% of our attention should be on the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of the living Christ we are consuming. Our mind should blot out any and all distractions. We should be asking God to enter our souls. This is coming from a guy who usually has a kid in front of him, holding a baby. If I can do it, I think everyone can. Does that make me more holy? Of course not. Does it mean that I can concentrate better? Maybe. But I don't think people should fall into the trap of thinking it's just too hard to do this.

Who cares if [b]I[/b] feel unwelcome. It's not about me. I am unworthy to receive Him.

[Gal. 5:22,23]

Is the new GIRM out yet? I can't find it online. I have a pastor who is very hostile toward those who present for Holy Communion while kneeling. I'd like to have the GIRM, rather than Fr. Z's blog post, although I have no doubt he's correct.

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1309287712' post='2259801']
I think the point is, your state of mind at the moment of receiving should not lend itself to you even thinking about funny looks, period.
[/quote]
[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1309358416' post='2260242']
I understand and agree.

I'm just saying that we should try not to let that be an issue as we are receiving. At that moment, 100% of our attention should be on the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of the living Christ we are consuming. Our mind should blot out any and all distractions. We should be asking God to enter our souls. This is coming from a guy who usually has a kid in front of him, holding a baby. If I can do it, I think everyone can. Does that make me more holy? Of course not. Does it mean that I can concentrate better? Maybe. But I don't think people should fall into the trap of thinking it's just too hard to do this.

Who cares if [b]I[/b] feel unwelcome. It's not about me. I am unworthy to receive Him.
[/quote]
What he said. Agreed completely.

[quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1309304815' post='2259952']
Kneeling for 10 years doesn't mean that I don't feel weird when someone looks at me funny. Especially since I'm allowed to do it, without question, per a Vatican Clarification.
[/quote]
It's the second part of this, I think, that leads one to suspect that perhaps it is pride which keeps you from focusing. What homeschoolmom says later (which is quoted below) about anticipating this encounter makes perfect sense to me and is quite sad when it happens.

[quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1309304815' post='2259952']
Also we're not called to be perfect, but to strive to be perfect. We are not. I try, but I fall. I don't make a funny face everytime one is made at me, but there are times and going forward, if a funny face is made at me, you can bet your bippy I will be in the sacristy after Holy Mass.
[/quote]
That is sad. And childish. And completely disrespectful to the One whom you receive. And quite contrary, I think, to the teaching of Him whom you receive - unworthily.

[quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1309304815' post='2259952']
Oh, this isn't about you...but when a priest makes a funny face at you while you're trying to receive Holy Communion, see how easy it is to concentrate. It' harder than you think. Don't believe me...try it. Go to the most liberal parish in Dallas and kneel to receive Holy Communion, that's what it's like when I am at my parents.
[/quote]
It is no secret that my pastor is not my biggest fan for reasons unnecessary to disclose. This, however, does not keep me from entering into deep and sincere concentration on Him who I am to receive. My pastor's approval of me is not important in that moment, nor are the looks I receive from him as I approach and receive.

[quote name='homeschoolmom' timestamp='1309348143' post='2260176']
I think anticipating making such a confrontation (and relishing the opportunity) during Communion is wrong. If you wanna talk to Father prior to Mass or afterwards, etc. Fine and dandy-- have at it. Communion is not the time for such an exchange.
[/quote]
Precisely what she said - except I tend to be in favor of NOT approaching the Pastor unless necessary and in this case, pride does't not necessitate a visit to the sacristy.

[MithLuin]

In 'the old days' few people would present themselves for communion on a regular basis. It was understood that you had to be properly prepared to recieve communion, meaning confession and fulfilling any penances assigned.

In many Latin American countries, few people recieve communion, because they are not officially married, and thus recognize that their living arrangement is 'living in sin' per Church teaching. For this reason, they do not come forward for communion.

That is why the Church has Easter Duty - to make sure that all the faithful are recieving communion at least once a year.



So...in the US, we don't have that problem. Nearly everyone recieves communion at every mass. Though...some people do not go to confession more than once a year (if that), so perhaps we have a different problem. Divorced-and-remarried couples often know that they are not supposed to recieve, but this does not always mean that they refrain. As with anything - more catechesis and clear instructions from the pulpit are needed. But this means....large churches with nearly everyone wanting to come forward for communion....oh, and an expectation that mass will not run longer than 1 hour.



Altar rails may be used batch-wise or continuous flow. In the batch process, the first group comes forward and all kneels. The priest distributes communion. Then, the whole group returns to their seats and the next group comes forward (repeat as necessary). Batch tends to be a lengthier process, so it's really more appropriate for smaller groups (<100). Continuous flow means that as each person recieves, he stands and returns to his seat, while the next person comes to take his place and waits patiently for the priest to loop back around. I would think this method is generally preferred (especially for larger groups), but only if the logistics work out.

If a church has altar rails and would like to use them, I see nothing wrong with that....but the norm in the US is to recieve standing and that has not changed in the 'tweaked' version of the GIRM.



I think that if you do something outside the norm, you are more likely to make eye contact and pay attention to what the priest or EM is doing. After all...you want to make sure they 'get' what you are trying to accomplish. I generally only recieve in the hand from an EM, because I don't want to confuse them or cause a disruption. I figure that most priests give communion every day and have been for years, so they can figure out how to give me communion in the mouth without dropping it or something. But an EM has less practice, so I don't feel any desire to force the issue. Besides, I was taught how to make a throne of my hands when I was a little girl preparing for my first communion, so I can prepare to recieve communion in that way as well. In fact, it's often easier for me to stare at the host (and only the host) if I do that. I'm much more likely to be distracted by the fashions (particularly shoes) in the communion line than the priest or EM, anyway

[Gal. 5:22,23]

We've just received the 2011 GIRM in our parish office. #160 reads: "The norm established for the Dioceses of the United States of America is that Holy Communion is to be received standing, unless an individual member of the faithful wishes to receive Communion while kneeling (Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, Instruction, [i]Redemptionis Sacramentum[/i], March 25, 2004, no. 91)"

From the section cited in [i]Redemptionis Sacramentum[/i], "In distributing Holy Communion it is to be remembered that “sacred ministers may not deny the sacraments to those who seek them in a reasonable manner, are rightly disposed, and are not prohibited by law from receiving them”. Hence any baptized Catholic who is not prevented by law must be admitted to Holy Communion. Therefore, it is not licit to deny Holy Communion to any of Christ’s faithful solely on the grounds, for example, that the person wishes to receive the Eucharist kneeling or standing."

I didn't doubt Fr. Z, but am glad to have it in hand.

Edited July 10, 2011 by Gal. 5:22,23