To Jesus Through Mary Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1309006082' post='2258559'] I wonder how that's working for her? Here's how gas prices have looked in the last 3 years... [url="http://www.GasBuddy.com/gb_retail_price_chart.aspx?city1=USA%20Average&city2=USA%20Average&city3=&crude=n&tme=36&units=us"]Gas prices 2008-2011[/url] [/quote] Hhhmmm think we both have an idea how that worked out for her. And how it worked out for all those poor souls who put their trust in man. My social justice plan? Psalm 146 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted June 25, 2011 Author Share Posted June 25, 2011 [quote name='To Jesus Through Mary' timestamp='1309015462' post='2258602'] My social justice plan? Psalm 146 [/quote] This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xSilverPhinx Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1309013072' post='2258583'] But through all of the human drama that you just described, it still exists...and that is Michael Voris's point. Name another mode of government which has been around for 2000 years uninterrupted and not overthrown... [/quote] But it's just like other constitutional monarchies...they still exist because they don't have that much political power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted June 25, 2011 Author Share Posted June 25, 2011 (edited) [quote name='xSilverPhinx' timestamp='1309029657' post='2258672'] But it's just like other constitutional monarchies...they still exist because they don't have that much political power. [/quote] But it isn't a constitutional monarchy though....it is an absolute elected monarchy. It is wholly and completely unique and one of the few non-hereditary monarchies left in the world. The Pope has full legislative, judicial and executive power....there is no constitution to speak of. And if you don't think that the Pope has political sway, you're on some sort of island somewhere. He has the political ear of almost half of all Christians... Edited June 25, 2011 by Cam42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xSilverPhinx Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1309031017' post='2258679'] But it isn't a constitutional monarchy though....it is an absolute elected monarchy. It is wholly and completely unique and one of the few non-hereditary monarchies left in the world. The Pope has full legislative, judicial and executive power....there is no constitution to speak of. And if you don't think that the Pope has political sway, you're on some sort of island somewhere. He has the political ear of almost half of all Christians... [/quote] Yes, I know. It would be more in line with absolutist monarchy, but without any one Nation, whch would make it different. As for political sway, I also think it's precisely because of the fact that it's more of an "influential" government rather than a State in places that are not the Vatican, then it isn't as suceptible to being overthrown. Some people become Christians out of their free choice and so choose to follow whatever the Pope says. In order for the Vatican to die out, there would have to be no more Catholics. As an atheist I know very well what it means to be outside of the group giving the Vatican political significance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted June 25, 2011 Author Share Posted June 25, 2011 [quote name='xSilverPhinx' timestamp='1309031414' post='2258683'] Yes, I know. It would be more in line with absolutist monarchy, but without any one Nation, whch would make it different. As for political sway, I also think it's precisely because of the fact that it's more of an "influential" government rather than a State in places that are not the Vatican, then it isn't as suceptible to being overthrown. Some people become Christians out of their free choice and so choose to follow whatever the Pope says. In order for the Vatican to die out, there would have to be no more Catholics. As an atheist I know very well what it means to be outside of the group giving the Vatican political significance. [/quote] No, there is a nation. Vatican City. It is just the smallest nation. There are citizens. I know some. There are passports, I have seen some. As for government, I've been there, it is very real. It's not too often that you're greeted at the entrance of a country with guards armed with halbreds. As for the political sway, it cannot be supported, because your premise is flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xSilverPhinx Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1309034843' post='2258715'] No, there is a nation. Vatican City. It is just the smallest nation. There are citizens. I know some. There are passports, I have seen some.[/quote] I know, that's not what i'm talking about. [quote]As for government, I've been there, it is very real. It's not too often that you're greeted at the entrance of a country with guards armed with halbreds.[/quote] Haven't been there, but have heard of the Swiss guards. *** [quote]As for the political sway, it cannot be supported, because your premise is flawed.[/quote] It's influence extends beyond its borders and is not limited to its borders, which is why it really isn't comparable to other monarchies that have been overthrown. Though it isn't merely symbolic either, such is the case with constitutional monarchies which have survived ( I should've said symbolic rather than constitutional monarchy) *. The political sway it has acts in other countries through the voluntary choice of Christians, which would make it a bit different from the cultural influence a country such as the USA has on other countries. * It's more of a cultural/religious authority rather than a executive/legislative/judiciary authority in countries and States other than Vatican, though because of Christians the two blend together. Culture and religion are on different grounds than an ordinary executive/legislative/judiciary State. It's not the Pope and Vatican monarchy that has political sway in the sense that he himself can extend his hand and meddle in another country's legislature in countries with a lot of Christians, it's the Christians. It's symbolic in that sense, and so more protected from being overthrown, as long as there are Catholics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Cat Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Vatican City is a theocratic monarchy, with its monarch elected, so argumentatively a republican theocratic monarchy. But not democratic since those representatives that elect the monarch are not elected by the governed. Depending on the definition of "[i]nation[/i]" or "[i]country[/i]", it's a bit hard to call vatican city either. It might be more appropriate to call it a city-state... It's an irregular example in international diplomacy and politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted June 26, 2011 Author Share Posted June 26, 2011 [quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' timestamp='1309042364' post='2258744'] Vatican City is a theocratic monarchy, with its monarch elected, so argumentatively a republican theocratic monarchy. [/quote] No, it is an absolute elected Monarchy. The Pope is ruler absolute. While it is a city state, it is a nation unto itself as are all city states... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Cat Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1309049002' post='2258777']No, it is an absolute elected Monarchy. The Pope is ruler absolute. While it is a city state, it is a nation unto itself as are all city states...[/quote]But the pope is selected through by a body of electors (eligible cardinals), making it republican. The process of selection and rule is theocratic (Catholicism). The Pope, historically and currently, lets the Secretary of State handle the governing of Vatican City... he is a monarch and very unlimited in his role as monarch of Vatican City. Thus I would personally classify it as a republican theocratic monarchy... Vatican City isn't a nationality, everyone who lives or works in the Vatican hail from other nationalities. Vatican City has no common population, people who are born and live there, like other countries would have. Under some definitions it works and under others it doesn't. It's why I wrote its "[i]a bit hard[/i]", because its an irregular situation. This is why I wrote "[i]might be more appropriate[/i]" to call it a city-state, which is how they identify themselves both internally and internationally. Edited June 26, 2011 by Mr.CatholicCat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Catholic Monarchy? I'm fine with it. The form of government is a means to an end, not an end in itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth had an *elected* monarch, and they kicked some serious @ss. The hardest thing about monarchy is making the monarch accountable. Since he is the highest civil authority, what do you do if he is unjust? There has to be a way to counter his power and make him accountable to something greater than himself. I think that's why the separation of judicial, legislative, and executive powers in our contemporary democracy works. No one possess full power, and there is accountability (theoretically at least.) Anyway... you want real heavenly governance? Look to the small Christian villages of the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1309006082' post='2258559'] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI[/media] I wonder how that's working for her? Here's how gas prices have looked in the last 3 years... [url="http://www.GasBuddy.com/gb_retail_price_chart.aspx?city1=USA%20Average&city2=USA%20Average&city3=&crude=n&tme=36&units=us"]Gas prices 2008-2011[/url] [/quote] Sweet vid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I don't think Justin Bieber haircuts work for anyone over the age of 19. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 [quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1309229086' post='2259340'] I don't think Justin Bieber haircuts work for anyone over the age of 19. [/quote] I don't think that Justin Bieber haicuts work for anyone at or under the age of 19 either... Down with the Bieber!!!! Down with the Bieber!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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