Cam42 Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 [quote name='ThePenciledOne' timestamp='1308979223' post='2258468'] Lord deserves to be Praised as freely as possible. Thank goodness there are Catholics that are inclined to Praise and Worship and can Love the Lord in this way. Gotta love some Hillsong United. [/quote] You're right. But the Mass is not a free action. It is a very caculated and a very specific action. It is not open to free interpretation and innovation. That is what caused the hermeneutic of rupture... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1308999471' post='2258538'] That is so riddled with Theological error, I don't even know where to start.... [/quote] You [i]might[/i] could start with the fact that it's not the correct "Imagine". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groo the Wanderer Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 derp. what is an XLT (other than an F-150 pick em up truck)? Chant is best. Organs are great. Hard to use either outside of an actual church building though. Gather 1200 youth for DCYC and do a quick survey how many know chant. See how many packed a pipe organ in their luggage. Since God inspired Sacred Scripture, look for the answer there you bunch of phatgoofs...he already told us the answer: Ecclesiastes 3:1 - For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven you may end the discussion now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1309000502' post='2258542'] You [i]might[/i] could start with the fact that it's not the correct "Imagine". [/quote] Gee, she didn't clarify now did she...so when one thinks of Imagine, it is NOT big stretch to assume that it is Lennon's song, now is it....plus with the tambor of music in today's churches, would it surprise you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1309004026' post='2258550'] derp. what is an XLT (other than an F-150 pick em up truck)? Chant is best. Organs are great. Hard to use either outside of an actual church building though. Gather 1200 youth for DCYC and do a quick survey how many know chant. See how many packed a pipe organ in their luggage. Since God inspired Sacred Scripture, look for the answer there you bunch of phatgoofs...he already told us the answer: Ecclesiastes 3:1 - For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven you may end the discussion now.... [/quote] Since when is it absolutely necessary that the faithful sing? As for the 1200 not knowing chant, they should. If they don't, that falls on church leaders and it should be fixed, no? That is part of the "spirit of Vatican II" though....to ignore what the Council called for and to make it all about mammon. We are to know how to chant. We are to know how to respond in Latin....if we don't, that doesn't mean that the liturgy has to change to accommodate the masses, but the masses have to accommodate the liturgy. So, when the music directors have 1200 youth at an event, it would be a wonderful time to TEACH them chant. Chanting is so much easier than trying to learn some pop inspired ditty by Ken Canedo or Bob Hurd or David Haas...but that isn't fun...and the Mass is supposed to be fun, right? Because fun is the only way to engage the youth....whatever... And while an organ is great and all, it isn't necessary...if you get 1200+ people chanting there is absolutely no need for anything other than the human voice. So, you're right, Ecclesiastes 3:1 applies...there is a season and a time under heaven and the time is now to teach chant...because that is how we are called to give praise and worship to God in the Mass. Thanks for the Scripture, it was very apropos. Edited June 25, 2011 by Cam42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1309005236' post='2258554'] Gee, she didn't clarify now did she...so when one thinks of Imagine, it is NOT big stretch to assume that it is Lennon's song, now is it....plus with the tambor of music in today's churches, would it surprise you? [/quote] Considering that it is a song written by an atheistic communist on atheistic and communist ideals, yes, it would surprise me that it would be sung in a Catholic church. I'm cynical, but not that cynical. Also, I find it insulting to Cmom that you think she would say "Oh, you want me to sing a song about there not being a heaven at a Catholic funeral? Hm...well okay, sure, since you've twisted my arm." [size="1"](Also, if you had bothered to read subsequent posts, you would have seen the clarification.)[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 If only you'd just read the follow up comments.... [quote name='BG45' timestamp='1308975941' post='2258434'] From my own admittedly deficient knowledge of liturgical norms and canon law, I'd say what Cmom said. I know at more than a few Festivals of Praise, they've been inside a church and the music tended to meet those three items. [b]Also just as an aside on the "Imagine" song being in the funeral, I think that's an amazing P&W song. I play it on iTunes usually before going to Adoration.[/b][/quote] [quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1308976222' post='2258437'] [b]I had never heard that song by Mercy Me before since I don't ever listen to P & W[/b], but the family requested it yesterday at the funeral home so the organist learned it this morning before the funeral. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 [quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1308987998' post='2258519'] READ PEOPLE This thread has NOTHING to do with Mass. Its just about P&W music as it stands alone. [b] Enough about Mass![/b] [/quote] Well that's a first. But, seriously, paying attention to the actual topic might help avoid some of these disagreements. They are irrelevant to the OP question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 [quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1309005920' post='2258556'] Considering that it is a song written by an atheistic communist on atheistic and communist ideals, yes, it would surprise me that it would be sung in a Catholic church. I'm cynical, but not that cynical. Also, I find it insulting to Cmom that you think she would say "Oh, you want me to sing a song about there not being a heaven at a Catholic funeral? Hm...well okay, sure, since you've twisted my arm." [size="1"](Also, if you had bothered to read subsequent posts, you would have seen the clarification.)[/size] [/quote] Ok, I apologize for the Lennon comment. I was scanning the topic at 6am. That is my fault, I'm not perfect. The Song's name is I Can Only Imagine. It is not Imagine. So, perhaps you can understand the confusion on my part. Regardless, that is not appropriate for the Mass, even for a meditation....funerals are not a mouthpiece for pop music to make a grieving family feel better. There is a time and place for that, like say at a visitation or a wake... It is precisely this confusion and horizontal theology which led us to this state of rupture that the Church faces now. Because her leadership did not do her service. Because her leadership doesn't speak out and support what should be. Dies Irae that is what is appropriate for a funeral...but alas that was removed in 1969....so that we can get songs like I Can Only Imagine... Proper theology. What is more proper, the Dies Irae or I Can Only Imagine? It is clear, but because the family requested it we have to sing it....otherwise what? The funeral Mass is not about the grieving family, it is about the sacrifice of the Mass and the commendation of the dead into paradise. We find comfort in that, not in the incomplete and often times incorrect horizontal theology which has infested and invaded the minds of the leadership of the Church. I'm not demonizing Cmom. She just did what she was told. I suppose she could have said no, but ultimately the culpability of that falls on the priest who allowed it to happen at a Mass he was celebrating... So, I apologize for getting the song wrong. That was my fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1309009199' post='2258563'] So, I apologize for getting the song wrong. That was my fault. [/quote] It happens, no worries. I wasn't trying to argue that it was appropriate at mass (I am not a fan of P&W personally, but that completely aside, I think we've established that it is completely inappropriate at mass...in fact I'm kind of reevaluating my stance now on having hymns in mass at all, but that's another story), just that it wasn't as bad as it could have been (the "Imagine" song). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 [quote name='IcePrincessKRS' timestamp='1309007214' post='2258561'] Well that's a first. But, seriously, paying attention to the actual topic might help avoid some of these disagreements. They are irrelevant to the OP question. [/quote] I totally understand what you're saying...I apologize for kinda hi-jacking the thread...again, scanning at 6am, I didn't see Himey's post.... We should respect the OP's wishes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Wednesday Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 I love a good joke or a funny story. But chances are I am not going to crack a joke or relay a funny story to a friend if they've just found out a loved one has died. My point is, something can be more or less good and pleasing in itself, but it doesn't mean it's always appropriate or meant to be used in all circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1309009199' post='2258563'] Ok, I apologize for the Lennon comment. I was scanning the topic at 6am. That is my fault, I'm not perfect. The Song's name is I Can Only Imagine. It is not Imagine. So, perhaps you can understand the confusion on my part. Regardless, that is not appropriate for the Mass, even for a meditation....funerals are not a mouthpiece for pop music to make a grieving family feel better. There is a time and place for that, like say at a visitation or a wake... It is precisely this confusion and horizontal theology which led us to this state of rupture that the Church faces now. Because her leadership did not do her service. Because her leadership doesn't speak out and support what should be. Dies Irae that is what is appropriate for a funeral...but alas that was removed in 1969....so that we can get songs like I Can Only Imagine... Proper theology. What is more proper, the Dies Irae or I Can Only Imagine? It is clear, but because the family requested it we have to sing it....otherwise what? The funeral Mass is not about the grieving family, it is about the sacrifice of the Mass and the commendation of the dead into paradise. We find comfort in that, not in the incomplete and often times incorrect horizontal theology which has infested and invaded the minds of the leadership of the Church. I'm not demonizing Cmom. She just did what she was told. I suppose she could have said no, but ultimately the culpability of that falls on the priest who allowed it to happen at a Mass he was celebrating... So, I apologize for getting the song wrong. That was my fault. [/quote] Last summer when my great aunt died, I was lucky enough to be given the responsibility of picking all the music for her funeral Mass. Unfortunately I could only pick songs out of the Catholic Book of Worship, which is not great, and the singer didn't know how to pronounce Latin very well. I managed to get In Paradisium in there, as well as... I think it was Salve Regina. Slim pickings at best though. It was all I could do to boycott Haugen and Haas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dells_of_bittersweet Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 [quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1308998917' post='2258535'] No. Why is Mass any different for a bunch of teenagers, as opposed to the congregation at large? [/quote] Mr. Lord and Master of Orthodoxy: I'm not sure you understood my question. I was asking about doing P&W during youthgroup, in the church, not during Mass. Is that allowed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 (edited) [quote name='dells_of_bittersweet' timestamp='1309025529' post='2258654'] Mr. Lord and Master of Orthodoxy: I'm not sure you understood my question. I was asking about doing P&W during youthgroup, in the church, not during Mass. Is that allowed? [/quote] Will the Blessed Sacrament be present? If not, then I don't see a problem with it. As long as you have permission from the local Ordinary to use the church for such an undertaking... If it is, I would think that what you were doing would be akin to a concert, which would require permission from the local Ordinary and the Blessed Sacrament should be removed, so as not to subject Our Lord to any possible profane activity. Then I would say sure. Just call me Cam....thanks. Edited June 25, 2011 by Cam42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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