MithLuin Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I agree that infantry is a very physically demanding job. It would be easier to find guys who are capable of performing well than women, because yes, men [i]do[/i] have a physical advantage. However. There [i]are[/i] women who can do that and meet the criteria. So, which is it? Is it a physical standard that has to be met...or do you have to be a man? Because if you make it about physical requirements (endurance, strength, eyesight, etc), you [i]will[/i] find a woman somewhere who a) wants to be in combat and b) meets the criteria. I think that's pretty nuts, personally. My best friend's sister is a West Point grad, so I don't think there's any problem with women being officers in the Army. I won't say she's [i]never[/i] had to deal with guys in an awkward way, but it works for her, and she loves her work and is good at it. If she were allowed to be in combat, she might sign up for something like that. She actually did get a combat assignment once by accident, but someone noticed before she went. So, I don't think it's that big of a deal, but women would always be the minority in such a situation. Perhaps using female soldiers in combat would make us look desperate to our enemies, so there might be a strategic reason not to go there. I wouldn't know; I'm not a student of military history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xSilverPhinx Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 [quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1308796945' post='2257512'] I agree that infantry is a very physically demanding job. It would be easier to find guys who are capable of performing well than women, because yes, men [i]do[/i] have a physical advantage. However. There [i]are[/i] women who can do that and meet the criteria. So, which is it? Is it a physical standard that has to be met...or do you have to be a man? Because if you make it about physical requirements (endurance, strength, eyesight, etc), you [i]will[/i] find a woman somewhere who a) wants to be in combat and b) meets the criteria. I think that's pretty nuts, personally. My best friend's sister is a West Point grad, so I don't think there's any problem with women being officers in the Army. I won't say she's [i]never[/i] had to deal with guys in an awkward way, but it works for her, and she loves her work and is good at it. If she were allowed to be in combat, she might sign up for something like that. She actually did get a combat assignment once by accident, but someone noticed before she went. So, I don't think it's that big of a deal, but women would always be the minority in such a situation. Perhaps using female soldiers in combat would make us look desperate to our enemies, so there might be a strategic reason not to go there. I wouldn't know; I'm not a student of military history. [/quote] Makes more sense to say that certain criteria should be met, independent of gender. There are also men who wouldn't meet the criteria and stronger women would be preferable to them in a infantry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithLuin Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Perhaps, but you have to recall that combat involves living in pretty primitive conditions for long stretches of time. Wanting the group to be single sex doesn't have to be about physical criteria, it can also be about practical considerations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximilianus Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Of course there is a lot more to it than physical strength. Hang out with a squad of Marines out at a forward operating base or as part of a tank crew for a month, you will never want to do that again and will understand why men and women are not compatible in a combat unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InPersonaChriste Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 Aight as for loving war I meant it not in a Halo way or in any other way other than this: I guess that I sort of am attracted to the whole *duty with honour* thing. I meant it to be in the sense that I would do everything in my power to protect my country, and my family. I also am really attracted to the history of war. I would prefer a world without war, but that is not going to happen. I do not romaticise war, nor do I try to push it away. I am still having a really hard time writing my idea's down, I have always had a horrible time truly expressing my thoughts. And I think that the Debate table does help a little bit. As for physical requirements for women. Truthfully we are not ever going to be built like men. I am not saying that we cant be infantry soldiers or firefighters, but answer me this: would you prefer to be carried by a man out of a flaming building, or a woman? Truthfully I would feel safer with a guy. Oh and this debate is sort of me trying to figure out if I want to join the Canadian Forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InPersonaChriste Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 [quote name='InPersonaChriste' timestamp='1308781053' post='2257423'] Since I was little i have always had respect for the Canadain Soldiers who serve our country. I know that they have had their problems, but I still think that CF is really respectable. But, If I was a man in Infantry and had to count on women on the front lines. Well I would prefer a tobacco's chewing jerk, to a femenazi. I personally think that if you are going to be a woman in the Canadian Forces, be something like a Nurse, Doctor, Med Tech, Lab Tech, or social worker. And leave the leadership and crazy artillery to the guys. Sometimes I think that women like these tend to attract to much attention to themselves. Sure they want to be just like the guys, but really, they are women. So if their is a woman out their, take into consideration that a well balanced workspace (equal amounts of men and women) is good if you are considering a military carreer. Or just leave it up to the men :D BTW I love guns, I love war, and I am all for the equality of women. I guess I just get so pissed off when people are talking about how horrible it is to have women soldiers. I am not a femenist, but I do know that in emergency situations, it should not really matter who you are fighting with. As long as they know their duty in the field, all should go well. I totally did not mean to make this offensive in any way. I just know how pissed all my brothers get when I beat them at sports (more like halo...) and how I can be a distraction when I play gruesome manly games (dont worry I dont dress offensively, but a woman did tell me that I can serve as a distraction....). [/quote] Post Script Edit: Saying I love war was a wrong choice of words (I was in a hurry, so stop Trolling me! :D). I really meant to say that I was attracted to duty with honour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xSilverPhinx Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 [quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1308800656' post='2257534'] Perhaps, but you have to recall that combat involves living in pretty primitive conditions for long stretches of time. Wanting the group to be single sex doesn't have to be about physical criteria, it can also be about practical considerations. [/quote] What exactly do you mean by "primitive conditions for long stretches of time"? Isolated from all others besides the unit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 [quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1308795385' post='2257496'] Brute strength means a lot in an combat unit. Combat soldiers carry a lot of weight on their person. There's a reason so many have serious back and knee problems. [/quote] My daughter weighs 115 lbs and carries a pack that weighs 50+ lbs, it takes a hell of a toll on her back and knees but she endures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InPersonaChriste Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 [quote name='xSilverPhinx' timestamp='1308803242' post='2257563'] What exactly do you mean by "primitive conditions for long stretches of time"? Isolated from all others besides the unit? [/quote] I know like if their are any sexual relations between comrades it is strictly forbidden on mission, and they get penalized for it. Was that what he was implying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Cat Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) Soldiers are professional killers, they pull a trigger or threaten the same. Why not women? Edited June 23, 2011 by Mr.CatholicCat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xSilverPhinx Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) [quote name='InPersonaChriste' timestamp='1308801486' post='2257541'] Aight as for loving war I meant it not in a Halo way or in any other way other than this: I guess that I sort of am attracted to the whole *duty with honour* thing. I meant it to be in the sense that I would do everything in my power to protect my country, and my family. I also am really attracted to the history of war. I would prefer a world without war, but that is not going to happen. I do not romaticise war, nor do I try to push it away. I am still having a really hard time writing my idea's down, I have always had a horrible time truly expressing my thoughts. And I think that the Debate table does help a little bit.[/quote] I also like the history of war (especially strategem), but not war. It's something interesting to watch documentaries about or read about. [quote]As for physical requirements for women. Truthfully we are not ever going to be built like men. I am not saying that we cant be infantry soldiers or firefighters, but answer me this: would you prefer to be carried by a man out of a flaming building, or a woman? Truthfully I would feel safer with a guy. Oh and this debate is sort of me trying to figure out if I want to join the Canadian Forces.[/quote] I would prefer whoever is better able to do the job. Gender is secondary. First scene: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JerVrbLldXw[/media] I'd bet that quite a few women could outdo him there... Edited June 23, 2011 by xSilverPhinx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InPersonaChriste Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 [quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' timestamp='1308803599' post='2257571'] Soldiers are professional killers, they pull a trigger or threaten the same. Why not women? [/quote] If this statement is true, do you think that women are to emotional for this task? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Cat Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 [quote name='InPersonaChriste' timestamp='1308805512' post='2257606']If this statement is true, do you think that women are to emotional for this task?[/quote]Considering the variations of what we classify as mental illness returning from war, I doubt that humans are up to the task at all. So no... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithLuin Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Oh, no worries about not quite finding the words to express yourself. 'Duty with honour' is a much better concept than 'I love war!' But if you want to be poetic about it, try this: [quote]War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. ~ Faramir, [i]The Lord of the Rings[/i][/quote] By primitive conditions I meant lack of privacy. For instance... My brother-in-law is in the infantry of the US Marines. On his last tour in Afghanistan, he spent 6 moths isolated with just his group, sure. But more than that...they were living under very primitive conditions. No roof. No interior walls. No furniture. No running water. No bathrooms. Electricity only when the generator was running. Basically, it was a large group of guys living within 4 walls with some sandbags getting shot at/ going on patrol every day and using buckets for their toilet needs with supplies being airlifted in since the roads were too hazardous to send a convoy. Oh, and it's 100 degrees/no shade. I wasn't suggesting that sexual tension would be a major problem, though of course the isolation tends to add to that. I was more pointing out that such conditions are difficult enough as is with it being a single sex environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xSilverPhinx Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Kudos for the LOTR quote, especially since Tolkien was a WW2 vet and knew what he was talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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