Archdiocese Of Boston Open Mass To Be Held

[katholikkid]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1308603724' post='2256447']
When talking about natural law and moral theology, we can only talk in the objective sense. Or about "the act itself". And if we're going to make guidelines and judgments, it is regarding the objective nature of the acts. Homosexual activity is grave matter and inherently a grave perversion of nature. As is murder. As is pedophilia. As is adultery. As is a straight couple having sex before marriage. Each of these acts are against nature and each of these acts separate the soul from God.

Are there circumstances that might alter culpability? Sure there are- and that goes for all of the aforementioned acts. But, frankly, when discussing these issues, all of that really doesn't matter. When it comes to talking with individuals, circumstances absolutely matter.
[/quote]


Agreed, but the act may not possess the same effect. We can say sin is a completely informed and willed turning away from God. Hold that thought for a second. If sin has to do with freedom of choice we have different scenarios of culpability as we discussed and effect on the soul. Murder is not intrinsic like same sex attraction is. No one chooses to be attracted to what they are attracted to in food flavors, sports, or people it just happens for whatever reason. Murder by definition on the other hand is a completely free choice. Murder is different than killing someone. So me defending myself and killing you is not murder but it is still the same act. I know it is super complicated.

[katholikkid]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1308603919' post='2256450']
just an fyi, those who are divorced can receive the Eucharist, provided that they are in a state of grace. now, if they have gotten remarried without an annulment of their previous marriage, then they may not present themselves to receive the Eucharist.
[/quote]

most don't annul though they just separate and divorce. at least that's my experience

[katholikkid]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1308603843' post='2256449']
the "Always Our Children" statement has rightly been questioned for its ambiguous statements about homosexuality.
[/quote]

by whom? if you have a documented link i would appreciate it.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='katholikkid' timestamp='1308604421' post='2256455']
by whom? if you have a documented link i would appreciate it.
[/quote]
i don't, right now as I'm getting ready for a trip in which I have to pack for myself, two children, and a husband. if i have time tonight, i will dig around. perhaps if another poster has time?

[katholikkid]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1308603822' post='2256448']
So long as it's done privately and does not substitute for a normally scheduled Mass.
[/quote]

but anyone could come to it if they wanted?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='katholikkid' timestamp='1308602886' post='2256438']
Catechism buddy. Look it up. Lust is a sin. Straight/gay people lust. But to be straight is to be heterosexual to be gay is to be homosexual. To be both is human. 'Being' in the sense that you cannot choose to be that way meaning one cannot choose their attraction can not be a sin.
[/quote]
This is very much incorrect. Nobody [i]is[/i] homosexual. Some people have a specific disordered inclination to same-sex attraction. That is not the same thing. Homosexuality is not a part of human nature; it is a perversion of human nature.
The disordered inclination to same-sex attraction is not in and of itself sinful, though to act on it in any deliberate way is sinful.

Sorry to say, but your reading of heterodox and often heretical publications such as the Fishwrap and the Tablet is not doing you any favours. There are far better things to read than those rags. This is the fruit that comes from those poisoned branches.

[Santa Cruz]

May I suggest that folks contact the pastor of Saint Cecilia's to ask him the history of the Parish outreach to persons with same sex attraction and to inquire about the Mass in July? [url="http://www.stceciliaboston.org/contact.html"]Link to St. Cecilia's contact page[/url]

Let us keep in mind that same sex attraction is a disorder, an illness. And, every single person living within the parish boundaries is of concern to the pastor of the parish. I am glad that someone is concerned for persons who struggle with this illness. Finally, Christ came for the sick, the sinner, to seek out the lost. It seems to me that this is the intent of the parish of Saint Cecilia.

Yes, everyone is welcome to attend Mass. No, not everyone is in full communion with the Church or in the state of grace and so therefore, not all are welcome to receive Holy Communion. I don't see anywhere in the ad that it is mentioned for all to receive Communion? Why would someone who calls him or herself a gay or lesbian not feel welcome at Mass or any public place? Well, look at the news, starting from grade school children with same sex attraction are being bullied to the point that they no see no way out and commit suicide. If someone is in the state of sin, living a life that is disordered and they are deeply entrenched in that life, would they feel welcome at the Catholic Church? Would you? Why should not the Church seek out the lost sheep? Do you really know anyone who struggles with same-sex attraction and are you aware of the struggles that they face and have faced from childhood?

What if one of the children who recently commit suicide because of the intense bullying saw that they were welcome to come to a Mass? Perhaps that child would have had somewhere to turn, to experience the love of Christ. God does love each and every one of us, ALWAYS. When we commit sin, we deny God and if we do not repent we choose hell over Heaven with God. God never stops loving us. We are the ones to deny and reject God's love when we sin.

For a moment, imagine the history of someone who believes that homosexuality is a viable way of life. Do you think he or she knows Christ? Do you think he or she is aware of the dignity of the person? Has he or she been introduced to the "Theology of the Body"? Perhaps the intent of Saint Cecilia's is to introduce people to God and to His ways of Truth, of Love, of Justice? Indeed, there are many, many persons suffering from the disorder of same-sex attraction and the culture of death has twisted the sanctity of the family, of marriage, feeding the people with lies that homosexuality is a viable way of life. Who will tell people the Truth? Is that not the purpose of the Church of Religious, to serve the needs of the Church TODAY, to seek out the lost, the sick, the wounded?

[Nihil Obstat]

Lifesitenews has questioned "Always Our Children", and that was just from literally ten seconds of searching.

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='Brother Adam' timestamp='1308595184' post='2256373']
A homosexual high school classmate recently asked if she and her partner could go to Mass. I said absolutely yes, please do go as often as possible. I explained to them that they could not receive the Eucharist, and that just like anyone else, they should not show any kind of PDA, especially because the Church considers the relationship gravely evil. They made it clear they were not there to cause a disruption but the friend knew that God was missing in her life though she was not ready to accept her lifestyle was wrong. I invited her to talk to the pastor and explain the situation and if anyone gave them a hard time for simply sitting in Mass to ignore them. To advertise a Mass as a 'gay friendly' Mass is very scandalous, if gives the impression of approving the sin. Anyone can go to any public worship service.
[/quote]

Yes.

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1308595551' post='2256375']
How many hearts have you changed with this approach?
[/quote]

[katholikkid]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1308604658' post='2256460']
This is very much incorrect. Nobody [i]is[/i] homosexual. Some people have a specific disordered inclination to same-sex attraction. That is not the same thing. Homosexuality is not a part of human nature; it is a perversion of human nature.
The disordered inclination to same-sex attraction is not in and of itself sinful, though to act on it in any deliberate way is sinful.

Sorry to say, but your reading of heterodox and often heretical publications such as the Fishwrap and the Tablet is not doing you any favours. There are far better things to read than those rags. This is the fruit that comes from those poisoned branches.
[/quote]



Homosexuality is not a perversion of any sort. The act is. The Catechism says its origins remain unexplained though science and more recent church documents take the side of it being an intrinsic part of life. And to clarify once again I read everything [i]in media virtus est[/i]. To not know the parameters is to not know the middle, thus you are lost. Since homosexual activity is part of nature at large why are human beings exempt? Not to say that we act on animal instinct but just as a matter of identifying a possible intrinsic existence as natural.

[katholikkid]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1308604722' post='2256462']
Lifesitenews has questioned "Always Our Children", and that was just from literally ten seconds of searching.
[/quote]

how about something a bit more official and ecclesial? or scientific if possible.

[Santa Cruz]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1308604658' post='2256460']
This is very much incorrect. Nobody [i]is[/i] homosexual. Some people have a specific disordered inclination to same-sex attraction. That is not the same thing. Homosexuality is not a part of human nature; it is a perversion of human nature.
The disordered inclination to same-sex attraction is not in and of itself sinful, though to act on it in any deliberate way is sinful.

Sorry to say, but your reading of heterodox and often heretical publications such as the Fishwrap and the Tablet is not doing you any favours. There are far better things to read than those rags. This is the fruit that comes from those poisoned branches.
[/quote]

You are correct, homosexuality is not natural and persons who suffer with same sex attraction have a disorder, an illness. HOWEVER, our culture has twisted the Truth, the sanctity of marriage, of the family and has fed people with lies that homosexuality is a viable way of life. So how does one evangelize persons who have eaten up the lie? You call them by name and then give them a new one...If they identify as homosexual, then call them by their own name, introduce them to Christ, teach them, walk with them and give them a new name, man, woman, human being, child of God...

I agree with you but it seems to me you want persons who are lost in this sin to suffer and die in hell?

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1308604511' post='2256457']
i don't, right now as I'm getting ready for a trip in which I have to pack for myself, two children, and a husband. if i have time tonight, i will dig around. perhaps if another poster has time?
[/quote]
since my kids are still sleeping (thank you, Jesus!):

http://www.wf-f.org/AOC.html
http://culture-of-life.org/content/view/326/
http://www.catholicmediacoalition.org/USCCB_intrinsic_evil.htm - Scroll down
http://www.wf-f.org/alwaysourchldspr98.html - Statement by [b]Bishop[/b] [b]Bruskewitz[/b]

that's all i'm able to find at the moment.

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1308592657' post='2256360']
I would love for more SSA-impacted people to attend the Mass (provided, of course, that they not receive unless they were in a state of grace). No doubt the graces that they would receive just from being in the presence of Jesus in the Eucharist could have an influence on turning them from their sin. Obviously what is happening here is wrong, but we do need to do something to correct the view that the Church hates homosexual individuals and clarify teaching on the matter.
[/quote]
People dealing with SSA are not sinning if not acting upon their desires. The thoughts and feelings are not in themselves sinful.

[quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1308593215' post='2256361']
The teaching is clear. The application is more or less clear. I don't know of many Catholics who are hate mongers. What I really think needs to happen is that we need to get the mainstream media to stop demonizing Catholics. As they say, Catholicism is the last acceptable prejudice. The MSM has been distorting Catholic teaching on homosexuality for years and years.

The Church is perfectly clear and perfectly concise on how we are to deal with the unchaste homosexual, as well as unchaste single heterosexuals, which is not any differently, btw.
[/quote]
I think I could kiss you right now!

[quote name='sixpence' timestamp='1308593341' post='2256362']
This is more along the lines of what I was thinking.... [b]I do not think it should be assumed that all homosexual people are acting out their inclinations[/b] or that they live a "homosexual lifestyle" and I think ANYONE should be allowed to attend Mass... but it should be made very clear that [b]anyone not in a state of grace should abstain from receiving[/b]... I do not see how this Mass will be different from any other Mass, assuming that there will be nothing implying that the Church is okay with people acting out the "homosexual lifestyle"
[/quote]
(Emphasis mine) In regards to the first bold line, YES. Thank you. In regards to the second, this, of course, should NEVER be directed to a particular person or persons but rather be an understanding for all peoples as we are ALL sinners.

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1308593441' post='2256363']
Obviously we don't need to clarify it to Catholics (well, sadly, I think we probably do need to clarify it to many Catholics...sigh...that's another conversation). We need to clarify it to the homosexuals, many of whom have a flawed (to put it kindly) understanding of the Church's teaching on the matter.
[/quote]
I think this is unfair. I think it needs to be clarified, period. No one "group" needs clarification. There are plenty of non-Catholic LGBT men and women in this world who understand EXACTLY what the Church teaches and plenty of practicing Catholics (LGBT and otherwise) who do not.

[quote name='Brother Adam' timestamp='1308595184' post='2256373']
A homosexual high school classmate recently asked if she and her partner could go to Mass. I said absolutely yes, please do go as often as possible. I explained to them that they could not receive the Eucharist, and that just like anyone else, they should not show any kind of PDA, especially because the Church considers the relationship gravely evil. They made it clear they were not there to cause a disruption but the friend knew that God was missing in her life though she was not ready to accept her lifestyle was wrong. I invited her to talk to the pastor and explain the situation and if anyone gave them a hard time for simply sitting in Mass to ignore them. To advertise a Mass as a 'gay friendly' Mass is very scandalous, if gives the impression of approving the sin. Anyone can go to any public worship service.
[/quote]
They're gay, not stupid.

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1308596473' post='2256385']
I don't think anybody here implied that the inclination towards same-sex attraction is in and of itself sinful.
However it is disordered, and acting on that disorder is sinful. To self-identify with that disorder betrays a lack of understanding of the nature of the perversion.
[/quote]
I think you lack true understanding in this area. I'd expound but my post is already getting quite lengthy. Anyway, it seems (perhaps because of poor post construction) that you contradict yourself here. I read your follow-up to this and it made little sense. Perhaps you'd like to go find what you remember reading and post it here with credit given the author?

[quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1308599655' post='2256403']
Oh, I've failed too, with two that I know of...one was a religious brother and the other a priest. No lie.
[/quote]
Cam, does the Church exclude persons who suffer with homosexual desires of any kind from religious life? (Curious. I guess I could google it...)

[quote name='Cam42' timestamp='1308600334' post='2256411']
That group exists, it's called COURAGE. But you won't find Masses at COURAGE celebrating SSA. To the contrary, it deals with how to adapt one's lifestyle to be chaste while dealing with SSA. Which is the proper way to live.
[/quote]
What is your personal opinion of COURAGE? I've never met anyone who has participated and know very little about the program itself.

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='Santa Cruz' timestamp='1308604700' post='2256461']
May I suggest that folks contact the pastor of Saint Cecilia's to ask him the history of the Parish outreach to persons with same sex attraction and to inquire about the Mass in July? [url="http://www.stceciliaboston.org/contact.html"]Link to St. Cecilia's contact page[/url]

Let us keep in mind that same sex attraction is a disorder, an illness. And, every single person living within the parish boundaries is of concern to the pastor of the parish. I am glad that someone is concerned for persons who struggle with this illness. Finally, Christ came for the sick, the sinner, to seek out the lost. It seems to me that this is the intent of the parish of Saint Cecilia.

Yes, everyone is welcome to attend Mass. No, not everyone is in full communion with the Church or in the state of grace and so therefore, not all are welcome to receive Holy Communion. I don't see anywhere in the ad that it is mentioned for all to receive Communion? Why would someone who calls him or herself a gay or lesbian not feel welcome at Mass or any public place? Well, look at the news, starting from grade school children with same sex attraction are being bullied to the point that they no see no way out and commit suicide. If someone is in the state of sin, living a life that is disordered and they are deeply entrenched in that life, would they feel welcome at the Catholic Church? Would you? Why should not the Church seek out the lost sheep? Do you really know anyone who struggles with same-sex attraction and are you aware of the struggles that they face and have faced from childhood?

What if one of the children who recently commit suicide because of the intense bullying saw that they were welcome to come to a Mass? Perhaps that child would have had somewhere to turn, to experience the love of Christ. God does love each and every one of us, ALWAYS. When we commit sin, we deny God and if we do not repent we choose hell over Heaven with God. God never stops loving us. We are the ones to deny and reject God's love when we sin.

For a moment, imagine the history of someone who believes that homosexuality is a viable way of life. Do you think he or she knows Christ? Do you think he or she is aware of the dignity of the person? Has he or she been introduced to the "Theology of the Body"? Perhaps the intent of Saint Cecilia's is to introduce people to God and to His ways of Truth, of Love, of Justice? Indeed, there are many, many persons suffering from the disorder of same-sex attraction and the culture of death has twisted the sanctity of the family, of marriage, feeding the people with lies that homosexuality is a viable way of life. Who will tell people the Truth? Is that not the purpose of the Church of Religious, to serve the needs of the Church TODAY, to seek out the lost, the sick, the wounded?
[/quote]

These are all very poignant points to consider.

I still think, however, that we must be aware of scandal- intentional or unintentional. Which means that the way in which this sort of thing is worded and put into action must be done extremely carefully.