Question For The Men...

[fides' Jack]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' timestamp='1308260376' post='2254784']
No. It's not. Under that logic, I'm flaunting my body in anything less than a potato sack.
[/quote]

I just know I'm going to get flack for this.

First off, this is a question for the men, so I'll state my opinion, as a man.

One of the most common flaws among women is that when they put on something to wear, the most important factor to them is how they look in it, hence the phrase, "Does this make me look fat?" Because what woman is going to wear something that makes her look fat? Eventually that mentality leads to a competition among women, so often men hear a lot of "I can't BELIEVE she is wearing that!" This happens most often when men are giving the other woman more attention (probably because she's wearing something less than modest).

I think women could learn a thing or two from men on this subject. When I dress, I just grab the first thing that I see. So you will often see me is mis-matched clothes (brown shoes, white socks, black jeans, and a green shirt - or some similar combination). When I have to appear professional, then I look a little closer. In those times, I care what people think because I don't want to lose my job.

Women, on the other hand, like to look good and attractive. They dress to "attract others". When you're on a date, and trying to make a good impression, I think that's fine. Otherwise, it just comes off, at least to me, as fake. If a man truly cares for a woman, he's going to want to see her for her entire self. If always presented with just the physical beauty, he'll never need to look beyond that. Men [b][i]need[/i][/b] to see women when they're not trying to be attractive.

[ContemporaryCaflicCrusader]

[quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1308526797' post='2256130']
Way to make blanket statements. O.o


I definitely have found acceptable clothes at the mall.
[/quote]

Congrats for finding clothes at the mall that are modest. Over and out.

[AudreyGrace]

[quote name='fides' Jack' timestamp='1308597454' post='2256391']
I just know I'm going to get flack for this.

First off, this is a question for the men, so I'll state my opinion, as a man.

One of the most common flaws among women is that when they put on something to wear, the most important factor to them is how they look in it, hence the phrase, "Does this make me look fat?" Because what woman is going to wear something that makes her look fat? Eventually that mentality leads to a competition among women, so often men hear a lot of "I can't BELIEVE she is wearing that!" This happens most often when men are giving the other woman more attention (probably because she's wearing something less than modest).

I think women could learn a thing or two from men on this subject. When I dress, I just grab the first thing that I see. So you will often see me is mis-matched clothes (brown shoes, white socks, black jeans, and a green shirt - or some similar combination). When I have to appear professional, then I look a little closer. In those times, I care what people think because I don't want to lose my job.

Women, on the other hand, like to look good and attractive. They dress to "attract others". When you're on a date, and trying to make a good impression, I think that's fine. Otherwise, it just comes off, at least to me, as fake. If a man truly cares for a woman, he's going to want to see her for her entire self. If always presented with just the physical beauty, he'll never need to look beyond that. Men [b][i]need[/i][/b] to see women when they're not trying to be attractive.
[/quote]

Our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit. This doesn't always mean that we can't look beautiful. I think the problem is, as you stated, that beauty is linked with immodesty. However, I don't think it's right for women to adopt an attitude of a good physical appearance being meaningless, therefore in a sense downplaying the temple that God made for us. Physical beauty can still be attained through modesty.
Kudos to you, btw, on looking at women as a whole, not just superficially

Edited June 20, 2011 by AudreyGrace

[4588686]

[quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1308461501' post='2255869']

But here's the deal folks, those of you who decided to critique Cam's manner of apology could have simply said "Thank you for apologizing" and left it at that. His apology was to everyone. His hope for an apology was from a few. I've apologized to him for being a bad friend. He accepted. He didn't critique the manner in which I apologized.
[/quote]


This is a fair point.

Unintentionally, I read Cams apology selectively. In retrospect I only paid attention to the parts that could be construed (not necessairly correctly so) as being another self-pittying revamp of the phatmass-beneath thy protection drama. I found the prospect of that highly annoying. That wasn't fair to Cam who in retrospect I feel was making a good faith effort to apologize and set things right.


So Cam, I apologize to you.

[fides' Jack]

[quote name='AudreyGrace' timestamp='1308599269' post='2256398']
Our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit. This doesn't always mean that we can't look beautiful. I think the problem is, as you stated, that beauty is linked with immodesty. However, I don't think it's right for women to adopt an attitude of a good physical appearance being meaningless, therefore in a sense downplaying the temple that God made for us. Physical beauty can still be attained through modesty.
Kudos to you, btw, on looking at women as a whole, not just superficially
[/quote]

I wouldn't say "meaningless", but I think it's important for women to remember, like you say, that "physical beauty can still be attained through modesty" - in fact, I would even say that physical beauty can only attain its highest point when attained through modesty. To me anymore, an immodestly dressed person mirrors the state of their soul in how they dress, and I find it repulsive.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1308602659' post='2256435']
This is a fair point.

Unintentionally, I read Cams apology selectively. In retrospect I only paid attention to the parts that could be construed (not necessairly correctly so) as being another self-pittying revamp of the phatmass-beneath thy protection drama. I found the prospect of that highly annoying. That wasn't fair to Cam who in retrospect I feel was making a good faith effort to apologize and set things right.


So Cam, I apologize to you.
[/quote]

You make it super hard to remember why I despise you so much!

[Cam42]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1308602659' post='2256435']
This is a fair point.

Unintentionally, I read Cams apology selectively. In retrospect I only paid attention to the parts that could be construed (not necessairly correctly so) as being another self-pittying revamp of the phatmass-beneath thy protection drama. I found the prospect of that highly annoying. That wasn't fair to Cam who in retrospect I feel was making a good faith effort to apologize and set things right.


So Cam, I apologize to you.
[/quote]


Thanks.

[Cherie]

[quote name='fides' Jack' timestamp='1308597454' post='2256391']

I think women could learn a thing or two from men on this subject. When I dress, I just grab the first thing that I see. So you will often see me is mis-matched clothes (brown shoes, white socks, black jeans, and a green shirt - or some similar combination). When I have to appear professional, then I look a little closer. In those times, I care what people think because I don't want to lose my job.
[/quote]

You sound like my husband!!! He dresses like that (unless I dress him!) and tells me I could learn a lesson or two from him on that ... unfortunately, vanity can creep in very easily with women when it comes to dressing themselves ... something of which I am guilty

I agree, though, about the idea that unfortunately, the concept of "beauty" is now linked with immodesty, which is linked with lust. [i]True[/i] beauty, as you said, can only be attained through modesty.

[Nihil Obstat]

In more important news: I got my new suit today.

All men should wear suits all the time.
All women should wear dresses all the time.

The exception to this is Saturdays, where men are permitted to wear khakis and polos, and women are permitted to wear skirts and blouses.

There, I just solved it.
[img]http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgkcc9sqSm1qb6xdzo1_400.gif[/img]



But yeah, that actually is the ideal in my mind.

[Ice_nine]

[quote name='fides' Jack' timestamp='1308597454' post='2256391']
I just know I'm going to get flack for this.

First off, this is a question for the men, so I'll state my opinion, as a man.[/quote]

chauvinist

[quote]One of the most common flaws among women is that when they put on something to wear, the most important factor to them is how they look in it, hence the phrase, "Does this make me look fat?" [/quote]

BIG IS BEAUTIFUL

[quote]Because what woman is going to wear something that makes her look fat?[/quote]
This woman *points to myself*

[quote]Eventually that mentality leads to a competition among women[/quote]

Hey Mr. Man-male, you're not our master, SISTERS STAND STRONG

[quote]so often men hear a lot of "I can't BELIEVE she is wearing that!" [/quote]

I for one can't BELIEVE how much of a chauvinist you are.

[quote]This happens most often when men are giving the other woman more attention[/quote]
The institutional hegemony of the White Male is the root of the problem again. . Who's surprised? NOT ME


[size="1"]I'm way overtired and found myself pretty hilarious. Sorry if you don't feel the same.

[size="2"]But on the real tip, I'm a female and I don't choose clothes based on form-fitting. I like t-shirts that are colorful, or that say funny things. But my wardrobe revolves around vivid colors because it makes me happy and maybe other people will appreciate a splash of color in such a boring world. In the summer I like wearing loose capris (almost skirt-like in the way they feeeel) sweatpants or jeans in the fall/winter. I don't wear make-up either. MY NATURAL BEAUTY DOESN'T NEED IT . Naw, but it's just another thing to do, and I don't want people being used to seeing me in make-up have a vom-attack when the make-up comes off. I desensitize them first . . . I'm so smart. And although I used to be ashamed of the unruly forest growing out of my head, I usually just tie my hair up or wear them curlz au natural no what I'm sayin'?

Now I'm almost positive that people look at those qualities and determine I'm less "girly" and thus "less feminine" by woman and men alike. The real problem is there's so much emphasis on a woman's physical appearance. Frankly that's the essence of cow. I get it we all have eyes and we all need some level of attention and appearance is the quickest way to that, but come on. Sarah Palin is pretty. Hillary Clinton is . . . not attractive by many people's standards, but who the floopy cares? Why is a woman's appearance always a topic even when it has nothing to do with her competence or abilities? It's not that way for men. And therein lies the problem.

Oops. Wasn't trying to go on a femenist rant. But you suggested women take a cue from men, and I agree! But society over and over again affirms that appearance is most critical. And that's lame

night y'alls
[/size][/size]

Edited June 21, 2011 by Ice_nine

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1308627005' post='2256655']
In more important news: I got my new suit today.

All men should wear suits all the time.
All women should wear dresses all the time.

The exception to this is Saturdays, where men are permitted to wear khakis and polos, and women are permitted to wear skirts and blouses.

There, I just solved it.
[img]http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgkcc9sqSm1qb6xdzo1_400.gif[/img]



But yeah, that actually is the ideal in my mind.
[/quote]
well played.

When i am feeling charitable... I give these to the wife..

[img]http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n129/corsetti3/pantspass_bride2.jpg[/img]

[Cherie]

[quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1308657848' post='2256725']
[img]http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n129/corsetti3/pantspass_bride2.jpg[/img]
[/quote]



Nihil, don't impose dresses on us ... flowy, dress-like skirts, maybe, but not dresses. They're too darn expensive and hard to find one that flatters (modestly) in all the right ways (except maternity dresses, those are great). Plus, it's super hard to find a dress that's acceptable for nursing.

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='CherieMadame' timestamp='1308666612' post='2256781']


Nihil, don't impose dresses on us ... flowy, dress-like skirts, maybe, but not dresses. They're too darn expensive and hard to find one that flatters (modestly) in all the right ways (except maternity dresses, those are great). Plus, it's super hard to find a dress that's acceptable for nursing.
[/quote]

Agreed!! Nice dresses are extremely difficult to come by.

[Cherie]

[quote name='Ice_nine' timestamp='1308629758' post='2256682']
[size="1"][size="2"]Why is a woman's appearance always a topic even when it has nothing to do with her competence or abilities? It's not that way for men. And therein lies the problem. [/size][/size]
[/quote]

I can see what you mean, and I think that stems from the fact that men are more visual by nature. Hence the fact that you see women immodestly dressed and flaunting their "sexual assets" to the detriment of any other assets they possess, but you definitely don't see that as much with men.

But I think the general idea of looking nice is a matter that pertains to both women [i]and [/i]men.

I'll never forget the story about St. Faustina, how she used to make sure her habit was well mended and in order, not out of vanity, but out of [i]courtesy[/i] toward other people. While of course it can be taken to extremes and [i]become[/i] vanity, trying to "look nice" can actually be virtuous. Someone used to say that since our bodies are the Temple of the Holy Spirit, we're supposed to adorn ourselves as we would a church. Not meaning we're supposed to wear our "Sunday best" all the time, but that out of respect for God within us, and the Trinity Who dwells in others, we should dress modestly and attractively. (T-shirts and jeans [i]can[/i] be worn attractively.) The same thought can be applied to positions of prayer - of course we can pray in any position, but it is better (and makes us more attentive) to pray either standing, kneeling, or sitting. (One of the DSMME's had a really good presentation on this during their kids' program [i]Truth in the Heart[/i] on EWTN) When we're slouched in a chair, even if we're listening to the best of our ability, our posture and body language tells the other person, "I don't really care about what you're saying." If we wear things that look like a dog's breakfast, we send the message "I don't care" ... but since we're temples of the Holy Spirit, we really [i]should[/i] care. At least that's my opinion!

Anyway ... I think I've commented [i]waaay[/i] too much in a thread meant for men, haha

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='CherieMadame' timestamp='1308666612' post='2256781']


Nihil, don't impose dresses on us ... flowy, dress-like skirts, maybe, but not dresses. They're too darn expensive and hard to find one that flatters (modestly) in all the right ways (except maternity dresses, those are great). Plus, it's super hard to find a dress that's acceptable for nursing.
[/quote]
Only when I've imposed suits on myself first.