Nihil Obstat Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 [quote name='Noel's angel' timestamp='1308503655' post='2255969'] If we all started riding unicycles around during Mass, I'd say a statement would come out pretty swiftly telling people not to do it. [/quote] My point is that some things don't even need to be said, because the principles are already in place for us to come to the proper conclusions. We don't need the Pope to tell us that clown Masses are totally unacceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Clown Masses and unicycles are completely different to the use of guitars. The use of guitars is widespread, whereas those who come up with clown Masses are in the minority. If we did have a clown Mass in every parish, something would most certainly be done about it. Now, if you're equating clown masses with guitars, I'd expect that if it's such a terrible abuse, something would have been done about it, especially since the guitar is used in virtually every parish I know of. Furthermore, it was seen to be acceptable to come out and say 'no pianos or drums' so there should be no problem with saying 'no guitars'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Noel's angel' timestamp='1308506791' post='2255996'] Clown Masses and unicycles are completely different to the use of guitars. The use of guitars is widespread, whereas those who come up with clown Masses are in the minority. If we did have a clown Mass in every parish, something would most certainly be done about it. Now, if you're equating clown masses with guitars, I'd expect that if it's such a terrible abuse, something would have been done about it, especially since the guitar is used in virtually every parish I know of. Furthermore, it was seen to be acceptable to come out and say 'no pianos or drums' so there should be no problem with saying 'no guitars'. [/quote] There are many abuses of the Mass that are widespread too. The guitar and using vulgar instruments and singing vulgar music is probably the biggest. Unity candles at a weddings are probably right up there too. As for clown Masses, not much is done about it....they are more widespread than you think. Things have been said about stringed instruments which are accpetable. You're applying a universal to a particular. When the Church teaches about stringed instruments which are accpetable and the guitar is not mentioned, it would seem that the ommission of that would been a non-condoning of said instrument. I know of several abuses which are done in just about every parish that I know of, but nothing is done about them, but that doesn't make it right....the piano, for instance. If we are to be part of the hermeneutic of continuity, then we should be about that business. The guitar and other vulgar instruments don't have a place in the Mass. They are not apt for sacred use. Edited June 19, 2011 by Cam42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 (edited) Piano is forbidden though. Nihil was really comparing apples and oranges, with the whole unicycles being comparative to guitars thing. Someone posted this earlier, and I found it interesting :"I will not now pronounce and say never guitar; that would be rather severe," Cardinal Arinze added. "But much of guitar music may not be suitable at all for the Mass. [b]Yet, it is possible to think of some guitar music that would be suitable, not as the ordinary one we get every time, [but with] the visit of a special group, etc.[/b]" If the guitar itself is unsuitable, would Cardinal Arinze not have said so? He's spoken out against other abuses, like 'liturgical dance' and the problems LIFE TEEN had, so why not guitar? Is Cardinal Arinze missing what you deem to be, the obvious? Edited June 19, 2011 by Noel's angel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 [quote name='Noel's angel' timestamp='1308508990' post='2256015'] Piano is forbidden though. Nihil was really comparing apples and oranges, with the whole unicycles being comparative to guitars thing. Someone posted this earlier, and I found it interesting :"I will not now pronounce and say never guitar; that would be rather severe," Cardinal Arinze added. "But much of guitar music may not be suitable at all for the Mass. [b]Yet, it is possible to think of some guitar music that would be suitable, not as the ordinary one we get every time, [but with] the visit of a special group, etc.[/b]" If the guitar itself is unsuitable, would Cardinal Arinze not have said so? He's spoken out against other abuses, like 'liturgical dance' and the problems LIFE TEEN had, so why not guitar? Is Cardinal Arinze missing what you deem to be, the obvious? [/quote] Cardinal Arinze might have heard some wonderful guitar music that I've never had the pleasure to listen to, but I've never heard guitar music that even approached being appropriate for Mass. I've listened to a lot of music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1308521542' post='2256091'] Cardinal Arinze might have heard some wonderful guitar music that I've never had the pleasure to listen to, but I've never heard guitar music that even approached being appropriate for Mass. I've listened to a lot of music. [/quote] have you listened to music while in other countries besides Westernized countries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 [quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1308521745' post='2256093'] have you listened to music while in other countries besides Westernized countries? [/quote] I've listened to music [i]from[/i] countries besides western ones. Quite a lot, actually. Alas I have never been to any countries besides Mexico, the US, England, and of course Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1308521542' post='2256091'] Cardinal Arinze might have heard some wonderful guitar music that I've never had the pleasure to listen to, but I've never heard guitar music that even approached being appropriate for Mass. I've listened to a lot of music. [/quote] I'm sorry you've never heard me play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 [quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1308522588' post='2256102'] I'm sorry you've never heard me play [/quote] [img]http://www.yoelroth.com/hippie_playing_guitar_with_payos_open.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1308522682' post='2256103'] [img]http://www.yoelroth.com/hippie_playing_guitar_with_payos_open.jpg[/img] [/quote] No need to be an arse. I actually have a minor in guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 [quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1308523165' post='2256108'] No need to be an arse. I actually have a minor in guitar. [/quote] Thought you were being glib. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1308523419' post='2256110'] Thought you were being glib. [/quote] wrong again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 [quote name='jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff)' timestamp='1308523513' post='2256111'] wrong again [/quote] No need to be an arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeresaBenedicta Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 If the Pope allows hymns in his liturgies, then I'm not about to say they are liturgical abuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1308524484' post='2256113'] [s]No need to be an arse.[/s] Sorry about being rude jaime (the artist formerly known as hot stuff) [/quote] fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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